Here are some prime examples of biased anti-Jewish biased moderation that caught my eye on the Hirsch thread.
First, there’s this from smtx01 with a comment that makes a very astute observation about CiF:
smtx01 30 Sep 09, 6:41pm
Being new to this forum, it seems very much like an ‘in club’, with ‘head boys’ and head girls’ ..people dont seem to be interested in serious debate, merely point scoring,schoolground insults and trying to win an arguement. I truly can not understand why the world is so insanely obssessed with Israel,
Of course being right doesn’t matter and I guess smtx01 is not familiar with the Guardian’s talk policy and its biased moderation policy against Jews because his/her comment was deleted.
And then there are these two from Fentonchem:
Fentonchem 30 Sep 09, 4:34pm
“Covenant
30 Sep 09, 4:21pm (1 minute ago)
@Fentonchem
Could you please lay out how the leaders of the Palestinians are ‘genocidal’ please?”
No actually, or rather, I can’t layout how the leaders of the ‘palestinians’ are genocidal on CiF.
If I were to link to the Covenant of HAMAS, my post would be removed.
If I were to link to the two PLO charters, my post would be removed.
If I link to the PA new, improved Charter, my post will be removed.
Indeed, any time I attempt to show that the leadership of the ‘palestinians’ are Arab and Islamic supremacists, by their own documents and statements, I fall foul of the moderators.
Fentonchem 30 Sep 09, 6:38pm
“Covenant
So, no actual genocide then? No actual crime for which anyone involved could be prosecuted under international law?”
Not at all Covenant, not at all. Both HAMAS and the PLO are in violation of
Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.
“Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide”Article 1
The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:* (a) Genocide;
* (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
* (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
* (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
* (e) Complicity in genocide.HAMAS, Hezbollah and the PA are guilty of (b), (c), (d) and to (e); and have been unsuccessful in (a).
All this pissing around with international law is a joke when an actual festering amoral group flouts the 1948 convention.
Guess what? Both deleted. Remember whatever you do don’t mention the Hamas Charter.
Then there’s this from zkharyauk which was completely deleted without trace:
zkharyauk 30 Sep 09, 6:27pm
So many European, American and Asian Christian and Muslims to arrest, who have killed far more with far less justification.
All those NATO countries killing civilians in Afghanistan, for, how many Afghani missiles on their towns and villages, exactly?
100 000s of civilians dead in Iraq, or Chechnya.
Yet the Israeli Jew is the one that really gets your juices going. Of course. We know. We know you have always been there, lurking in the slime.
And to add insult injury I see that PetraMB’s 3.28pm post has been deleted while Conor Foley is free to malign Harry’s Place as he does here and here.
And while the Guardian stamps out posts that are not aligned with the GWV, deletes pro-Israel comments, allows Harry’s Place to be defamed by one of its own contributors, it allows the following blatantly antisemitic comment to remain unhindered on the thread with 13 recommends to boot:
clearvoice 30 Sep 09, 6:59pm
Of course he should be arrested and tried for his crimes. Whenever anyone dares to criticize Israel the charge of anti-Semitism is always trotted out by Israel and its apologists. All the time there are Jewish organizations like NETUREI KARTA that bravely demonstrate against the Israeli State. The activities of Jews against Israel are seldom reported in the Western corporate media perhaps from the same fear of being labeled anti-Semites. But how can orthodox Jews like NETUREI KARTA be called antiSemite? The racist apartheid state of Israel has for too long been given carte blanche for every crime against humanity imaginable, including its nuclear weapons development. It’s time action was taken against these criminals and arresting Ehud Barak would be a good start.
And this is no oversight because the immediately following comment by durgadurga has been deleted.
durgadurga 30 Sep 09, 7:01pm
This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.
Georgina, Matt and Brian – what do you have to say about this eh?
UPDATE
At 2.20pm London time on Oct 1, the clearvoice comment is still up with 18 recommends.
Categories: Guardian
It’s interesting about Harry’s Place. I have the impression lately that internet blogs are rapidly gaining authority at the expense of those previous guardians of public information, the newspapers. Look at Huffington http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ which calls itself an internet newspaper and is often quoted before NYTimes – now that is influence.
I cannot see why referring to an article on Massih on Harry’s Place should be cause for deletion while scorn for referring to the same article should be allowed to remain on the page. It is just as well that the mod gods don’t have to justify their actions because it would be impossible. If Harry’s Place is anathema and such a threat that a positive mention should be deleted then surely negative mentions should be deleted too? but our mod gods are just not that logical.
Wow – that comment you pinpointed on the CiF thread by smtx01 is so spot on, Hawkeye! That’s exactly what’s going on over there.
When there are at least 8 to 10 new Israel-related articles on CiF per week, and you see the amount of anti-Israel vitriol from all the usual suspects, who never get tired of repeating their mantras on each and every occasion, you know for sure that they are hopelessly obsessed with Israel/Jews and nothing is going to change their views.
They should be left alone and ignored, or else ridiculed on CW and CiF if you’re lucky. I think Caroline Glick who founded ‘Latma’, which produced the brilliant satire-parody of the singing Swedish diplomat, and many others, showed us the way to go. If you can’t educate them, mock them.
Just make sure your browser is set in such a way that when/ if you read CiF articles or post on them, the Guardian receives no benefit. Follow the money – that’s all you need to know about Georgina, Matt, Brian and Shameless.
Are anti semitic and anti Israeli posters on CIF being paid by the Guardian,
their zeal and enthusiasm,and the speed that they are on site,makes me wonder.Their posts receive colossal amounts of recommendations.
Excellent article, Hawkeye, and a very good complement to Medusa’s. Could this blog keep on doing that – ie “outing” CiF every time it shows blatant bias in this way? I recognise that it may be a lot of work for your team but how better to show up CiF for the craven racist bunch that it is than a public shaming?
John, could you tell me (and others who I am sure will be interested) how I might set up my Firefox browser as you describe, so that the Guardian receives no benefit? I shall need computer idiot-proof, step-by-step instructions please – I am not good with computers. Thanks.
Fairplay I quite agree that CiF-based rubbish should be ridiculed here and elsewhere whenever the opportunity arises. The sort of cognitive rigidity displayed by “Georgina” and her partners in delusion gets extremely challenged (with the resulting cognitive dissonance for all concerned) if they are not taken as seriously by “the world” as they take themselves.
wondering: a similar statement was made by pro-Arab Editor of CiF, Brian Whitaker, about the contributors to CiFWatch probably being in the pay of the Israeli government. I very much doubt that they are.
The fact is that the CiF Israel/Jew haters are precisely that – hatred is their main driver – and CiF attracts them like flies around dog sh*t. It also cynically exploits them to get money by cranking up their hatred and reinforcing it by the sort of articles it commissions. It’s probably helpful for haters to get things off their chests and may lessen the likelihood of their engaging in more violent acting out, although one cannot be sure but I can’t help wondering whether “Georgina” et al are derelict in their duty to society by feeding these flames of hatred.
Hawkeye, the following is another – note the reference to Goldstone’s Jewishness:
“Geoff01
30 Sep 09, 6:21pm (about 18 hours ago)
“To SegioBramsole
“Nothing of the sort has ever been ascertained by qualified legal scholars.
Like the Goldstone report. Goldstone is a judge, and for that matter a Jew and a Zionist..”
Fairplay
If you can’t educate them,Mock them….Well said
Mocking them and pissing them off is much more fun,and very easy to do.They have very short fuses.
Trying to educate them,is a waste of time.
I suspect CIF moderation deletes comments that get enough complaints. It’s about appealing to the punters.
zkharya – ‘I suspect CIF moderation deletes comments that get enough complaints’.
I doubt it.
Their deletions are concerned with maintaining the ‘supremacy of the GWV’. Their moderating policy is a real hoot. They write it in such away as it sleazes ‘balance and fairness’ when in fact, if is simply a front for putting a heavy foot on the scales.
Nicely done CIFWatch.
Demeter, I suspect this CiF post refers to Goldstone as “Zionist” when what is really meant is “Jew”, giving the lie to the GWV claim that it hates only Zionists, not Jews. The post appeared on the Brak thread with 63 (!) recommendations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/30/ehud-barak-diplomatic-immunity?commentid=a5d85d5b-48b3-40ab-8838-1240e3a134fa
zkharya, let me add one point to yours: Regardless of the Guardian’s motivation, in the act it is deleting posts which do not contravene the community policy but do provide cogent and relevant pro-Israeli or pro-Jewish arguments.
In other words, the Guardian is discriminating against posters on the grounds of nationality (Israeli), ethnicity (Jewish), or political viewpoint.
In the USA, actions with such disparate impact are often termed discriminatory regarless of the pretext.
This leads me to wonder whether the Guardian should be brought up on charges of violating US laws against discrimination or UK laws against hate.
Concerning the GWV-recommended assertion that
In point of fact, the western media have widely reported NK even though NK represent an extremely tiny nut-fringe group.
I’d have posted this at CiF, but the thread is already closed.
By closing threads at end-of-business-day UK, the Guardian is denyng participation to one the world’s largest Jewish communities – that in the USA, where the prime posting hours of working people are in the evening when the Guardian has contrived to close the threads.
Regardless of the pretext, this amounts to censoring the USA’s 5 million Jews and other American supporters of Israel.
FreedmanisaBigot, you are most likely correct – I note the reference in Medusa’s article to Denis MacShane’s book which among other aspects of the new antisemitism explores the conflation of antiZionism with antisemitism by the Left and Islamists. Most Islamists don’t, won’t or can’t make the distinction and hate Israel and Jews equally.
zkharya do you really believe that the Guardian deletes comments only because they get the most complaints (I can imagine Berchmans trolling through the threads looking for things to complain to “Georgina” about) or is it made profoundly uncomfortable by the standard of argument by those who on principle oppose its stupidity, half-truths about and obsession with Israel? Even if you are right CiF puts itself in a very bad light when antisemitic comments are allowed to remain on line while the posts which highlight them are deleted. I have lost count of the number of times that has happened.
I agree with FibularSarcosis that our Georgina and her coven are much more likely to delete anything which doesn’t tie in with “Israel = evil” whether there are complaints about such posts or not.
Best posting today:
——
thaumaturge
01 Oct 09, 2:40pm (about 3 hours ago)
We are entering a new era of coordination, not control – where the internet is governed by you, the users
Good grief! Has anyone told the Mods?
‘I can imagine Berchmans trolling through the threads looking for things to complain to “Georgina” about’
that mayn’t be so far from the truth.
Silver tree
I’m still experimenting. If you use Internet Explorer 8 – you can elect to us ‘InPrivate’ browsing/filtering. This lets you read Cif and the comments but you can’t log-in, recommend posts or post yourself unless you enable the cookies and it is the cookies that log the ‘hits’ for the benefit of the advertisers. Cool if you just want to read the wretched thing without adding to their revenue.
I have not yet used Firefox as I am in-between computers and can’t be bothered to download anything onto this old computer. I suspect that the same will apply to Firefox – ie the Guardian has got this sussed – but I’ll let you know in due course.
If you do want to just read and are using Internet Explorer 8, you need to do the following:
1. At the bottom right-hand side of the internet explorer window, you’ll find a grey symbol which looks like a padlock with an arrow and a little menu arrow by the side.
2. Press the little arrow and the menu gives you: ‘Automatically block’, ‘choose content to block’, and ‘Off’ (Off is the default). Choose ‘Automatically block’. The padlock turns from grey to yellow and the overarching arrow turns from grey to green. Then go onto CiF.
2. You may get a little box saying something like ‘do you want to allow/enable cookies?’ and you have to keep pressing ‘block’ until that little box goes away. Persist in saying you want to block the cookies (it may take several goes with several of these boxes). You can then read the article and the comments without being logged by the various Guardian tracking cookies. But as I said – you can’t log in/recommend or post.
As usual with microsoft there are other ways of finding the ‘private browsing’ menu/control – eg at the top right hand of the window in ‘Safety’. Play around with it.
You have to disable the private browsing function when you go onto other sites unless you want to keep having to press those little boxes asking you if you want to block or allow the various cookies most of the sites have.
Search for more info by googling ‘private browsing internet explorer’…
I’ll let you all know if I find another way – but I doubt I will. At least you can now read the articles without adding to their profits.
GuardianHatesJews, you complain that the closing of threads means that US Jews can’t comment, and that this amounts to censoring them. But I would doubt that this is really in the interest of the Guardian: they launched their Cif America site only a year ago or so, obviously in order to get a piece of the US media pie, and the whole Cif concept is attractive because readers can post long comments and they immediately appear and are displayed in full. So for US readers who find themselves constantly barred from commenting on a certain topic, namely Israel, this will be very frustrating — not something that is a good selling point and in the Guardian’s interest. Also, they have only recently started to close threads on Israel for debate during the UK night hours, even quite early in the evening, which of course also pushes down “hits”, and again, this is something that is definitely NOT in their interest…
So what I’m getting at is that it’s entirely possible that all this is a reaction to the criticism they are getting from here — they are simply too worried what would get posted while the mods are sleeping, and if their main worry is that there could be terribly antisemitic posts, or terribly anti-GWV posts, is a question we can only speculate about. But it’s in no way in their interest to close the threads for debate.
And of course the same is true for the suggestions raised by some on various threads here: that if the pro-Israel posters stayed away, that is, if they wouldn’t comment, there wouldn’t be any debate, and the result would be a bit of an embarrassment: Berchie congratulating LaRit on her humane insights, Moron complimenting Ben White on trying to find ways to pretend it’s just anti-Zionism, endless praise for Freedman’s endless inanities, and a few others cheering along whenever somebody calls for replacing the evil “Zionist entity” with a democratic secular Hamastan.
Sababa, you miss the point that the G does not always do what is in its interest. For example: “But it’s in no way in their interest to close the threads for debate.”
It’s not in the G’s interest to so bias its articles anti-israeli and to so bias CiF that it becomes a laughingstock and spawns a site (such as this) dedicated to exposing the G’s bad faith and anti-Semitism.
In other words, in the case of the Guardian, both ideology and anti-Semitism may trump its “self-interest”.
We well know that most anti-Semitism runs counter to self-interest.
John, thanks for these very basic (and therefore equally welcome) instructions. Will try them out and let you know how I get on…
OK, have tried this out. Got into Google and clicked on safety button as you advised. When the mouse is on the safety button I get “No items are being blocked on this page….”
The icon is yellow as you said it would be, so what does the message mean?
GuardianHatesJews, so you mean they are so ideologically committed that they’re willing to take losses for what they think is right — or rather, that should probably be: left?
If that is so, this would be really amazing. But then the argument that I’ve seen here repeatedly, namely that they want to make money by reliably providing an anti-Israel line, wouldn’t be true.
But maybe, as so often in life, it’s a mix: some of those who set the line think it’s the “left” thing to do; others think (mistakenly) it’s also good for business.
Sababa, not so amazing. More than one country (in both Christian and Muslim worlds) has decimated its business class in expelling Jews. Germany decimated its scientists in WW2 by chasing out Jewish scientific expertise, and it diverted resources from the war effort to deport Jews.
The female portion of the Guardian staff is certainly working against its own interests in ignoring or supporting Ilsamic regimes which oppress women.
Many leftists Jews work against their own financial and “Zionist” interests in supporting the American Democratic party; Pdhoretz has just made a publication on the issue.
In sum, working against one’s own interests for emotional or ideological reasons is commonplace – and the Guardian is above all ideological.
I just want to say, my thesis that complaints mean deletion is not so far fetched: look at the recommendation system? Antisemites/anti-Zionists/Israel haters will always outnumber Jews and/or Israelis. So they will recommend their own more often. If they complain, that will entail more deletions in their favour.
It’s a numbers game, as they have always known. You can always kill the Jews with numbers, in the end.
I suggest complaining. From now on. If there is case to make, complain. It’s a numbers game.
Guardian hates jews.
The female portion of the Guardian staff is certainly working against its own interests in ignoring or supporting Ilsamic regimes which oppress women.
The priorities of the extreme lefty cabal Guardian Management are first and foremost to denigrate anything aligned with the USA. And Israel is certainly aligned with the USA.
Such is the sickness of the extreme LEFT.
I must say that I have to suspect that the extreme left has insinuated itself into the media and the Labor party is such a way that they are heard far out of proportion to their actual numbers. That was the way that Trotyskyites would control groups in Russia pre 1990.
zkharya I think yoú are right about more complaints meaning faster deletions with one caveat: it depends on who complains and who they are complaining about.
As for the financial value of policy: it might depend on whether you have backers who agree or disagree with your policy.
Silver Tree
If that padlock symbol’s arrow turns green and you click the black menu (downward) arrow on its right hand side, it should show that ‘Automtically block’ has been chosen and hence that you can read the Guardian without accepting its cookies.
“Biased Anti-Jewish Moderation in Action on the Hirsch Thread”
You must be crazy. You have absolutely no evidence of such a thing. And isn’t it strange how you make no mention of the frequent deletion of pro-Palestinian posts for similarly unclear reasons? What about the frequent examples of anti-Palestinian and/or Muslim prejudice left up on the thread?
This highly selective “review” of CiF threads is meaningless, because you are assessing them from the outset with the purpose of finding evidence to support your claims.
But even crazier is the following:
The charmingly monikered Guardian Hates Jews claims that the Guardian’s policy of shutting down threads overnight (in the UK) is effectively “denying participation to one the world’s largest Jewish communities – that in the USA”, that the Guardian has “contrived” to close the threads to this aim and is “censoring the USA’s 5 million Jews and other American supporters of Israel.”
Sorry, but that really is insane stuff. I see there is a lot of general agreement above re. CiF – but surely you can’t all be telling me your fears about the Guardian go this far?
Splendide après-midi à tous les lecteurs de ce phorum ,
Premièrement, donnez-moi l’opportunité de vous montrer mon appréciation pour chacune des super infos que j’ai trouvées sur cet formidable site web .
Je ne suis pas sure d’être au bon section mais je n’en ai pas vu de meilleur.
Je réside à Hull, canada . J’ai 30 ans et j’élève 4 très gentils enfants qui sont tous âgés entre neuf ou 10 ans (1 est adoptée ). J’aime bien beaucoup les animaux et je tempte de leur donner les fournitures qui leur rendent la vie plus festive .
Merci d’avance pour toutes les superbes discussions dans le futur et je vous remercie surtout de votre compassion pour mon français moins qu’idéal : ma langue de naissance est le mandarin et j’essaie d’éviter les erreurs mais c’est très difficile!
Au plaisir!
Arthru
What a graceful hello, Arthru!
Welcome!
Qu’est-ce qu’un gracieux bonjour, Arthru!
Bienvenue!
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