Guardian

Guardian updates the CiF talk policy…well not exactly


We are pleased to announce that Georgina Henry, the Guardian’s executive comment editor and head honcho of CiF, announced today that she has decided to update its talk policy and come clean.

Here’s what Henry had to say [really really important: Georgina, Brian, Exiled and others – before you get your knickers in a twist, please see the note at the bottom of the post]:

OK, so here they are: the updated “community standards and participation guidelines”, aka the talk policy (see below). They were written not by us on Cif but in consultation with our moderators and all those involved in community participation across the site including our good friends Berchmans and LaRit, taking into account the perspectives of community members who share the Guardian World View (aka the GWV) which provides in particular for the denunciation of the State of Israel as the Jewish state.

They comprise 10 guidelines many of which were written to directly answer questions posted on Cif threads.

I hope you’ll agree that the talk policy is clearer and more direct. It boils down to what we’ve always tried to say: help make Cif a welcoming, intelligent place for discussion as long as you subscribe to the GWV; take some responsibility for the quality of this community; don’t be abusive; don’t be offensive; don’t be unpleasant and keep on topic except when it comes to a contributor of a piece that is supportive of the Jewish state or except when it comes to “pro-Israel posters” (many of whom are paid agents or propagandists of the Israeli government).

One new bit is to clarify our approach to comments about us, ie the Guardian and its writers/bloggers – basically, criticism is fine within the confines of the GWV, persistent misrepresentation and smear tactics are not except when it comes to pro-Israel writer/bloggers, pro-Israel posters and our evil-twin CiF Watch.

While there are some on Cif who philosophically object to moderation at all, my sense is that they are in a minority. Most users of the site accept the need for boundaries in the way the conversation is conducted except when it comes to Jewish and Israel-related subjects.

The moderators strive to be as even-handed and consistent as possible when it comes to those that follow the GWV.

Moderators are also human and not infallible. Rather than just crying foul, if it’s clear a mistake has been made, or a comment has come down unnecessarily (and you’ve looked at the talk policy and honestly cannot for the life of you work out why), flag it up to them and they’ll take a look except that if you are pro-Israel poster we’ll just give you the run around. There is now a dedicated email address for you to contact the cif moderators: cif.moderation@guardian.co.uk – hint if you don’t subscribe to the GWV don’t bother us.

Another complaint is lack of transparency. I think we do need to be clearer about both the process by which posters who break the talk policy move from deletion to pre-moderation to banning, or about how to complain/appeal if it happens to you and you disagree with the decision.

Posters who keep flouting the talk policy by refusing to subscribe to the GWV will be moved into premoderation. They should take that as a warning that a banning is on the horizon and is a real possibility if they don’t make more effort to respect and adhere to the GWV. They are given several chances to stop being troublesome before they’re banned except that if you’re a pro-Israel poster we reserve the right to arbitrarily ban you for whatever reason we see fit.

Another issue is the unfairness of permanent bannings for long-time posters. We’ve put a bit into the FAQs about that, here’s what it says.

Q: If I’ve been banned, can I come back if I say I’m sorry?

A: A user can be reinstated if the moderation team are confident that he or she understands the cause of their suspension (i.e. failure to subscribe to the GWV), agrees to abide by the site’s community standards in accordance with the GWV and will be able to contribute reasonably and sociably to the conversation in future by praising anti-Israel writers and denouncing “pro-Israel” posters as paid agents or propagandists of the Israeli state.

Finally, a clarification about what our name actually means. As you know, we named this site Comment is free in deference to the Guardian’s legendary editor, CP Scott, whose bearded face stares out at you from our front page badge. It has been claimed by the Zionist apologists that CP Scott was a Zionist. This is simply not true and it is quite Orwellian to suggest otherwise.

As long as we stay within the confines of the GWV, his famous 1921 essay on journalism is still a guiding text for our newspaper. But when he used the phrase “comment is free but facts are sacred”, he was trying to define what he thought the role of comment, or opinion pieces, in newspapers should be.

What he wasn’t doing was making an anti-censorship point about free speech, or an ironic point about free, ie not paid for, content and as long as you subscribe to the GWV all comment is free.

Reading your comments to us on moderation, it’s clear how many of you are here because you enjoy and value the GWV community you’ve created around the content we’re publishing. Leaving aside the question of whether you value the content as much as we do, in the end, this is a shared enterprise: it’s not us against you, or you against us except when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel: it’s us AND you in pursuit of the day that all Jews have assimilated into non-existence and the Jewish state no longer exists.

Community standards and participation guidelines

There are 10 simple guidelines which we expect all participants in the community areas of guardian.co.uk to abide by, all of which directly inform our approach to community moderation. These apply across the site, while moderation decisions are also informed by the context in which comments are made.

1. We welcome debate and dissent provided our authors and posters accept that  Israel is the Great Satan and the Jewish state should be denounced at every opportunity; that anyone alleging antisemitism is only trying to suppress this fact; Seamus Milne, Seth Freedman, Berchmans, Ken Livingstone, Hugo Chavez, Imanutjob, Tony Benn and most importantly the Guardian are infallibile; and Obama is a lackey of the Israel lobby so the US cannot be trusted (collectively known as  the “Guardian World View” or “GWV” for short). The key to maintaining guardian.co.uk as an inviting space is to focus on intelligent discussion of the GWV.

2. We acknowledge criticism of the articles we publish, but will not allow any criticism of the Guardian and our ‘journalists’ to be published on our website. For the sake of robust debate, we will distinguish between those supportive of the GWV and those that oppose it.

3. We understand that people often feel strongly about issues debated on the site, but in the case of expressing support of Israel (also known as “hasbara”) and crying antisemitism, should you be so rash as to express this, we will consider removing your posts and your posting rights. Please respect the views and beliefs of those who accept the GWV and take the time and trouble to spread it.

4. We reserve the right to redirect or curtail conversations which descend into flame-wars based on opposition to the GWV. We encourage you to praise the GWV as much as possible and we ask you to report to us any comments that seek to refute the GWV.

5. We will not tolerate criticism of the GWV or other forms of comment, or contributions that could be interpreted as such. We recognise the difference between criticising a particular government, organisation, community or belief and attacking the GWV.

6. We will not tolerate racism, sexism, homophobia or other forms of hate-speech, or contributions that could be interpreted as such unless directed in a sufficiently concealed fashion and accords with the GWV. We recognise the difference between criticising a particular government, organisation, community or belief and attacking people on the basis of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation and yet we will apply our own standards whenever we so wish.

6. We will remove any content that may put us in legal jeopardy. Postings defamatory of Jews, Israel or neocons are an exception to this rule since we know that Jews, Israelis and neocons will never threaten to blow up our office.

7. We will remove any posts that are obviously commercial or otherwise spam-like. The exception is posts supporting antisemitic plays – such as Seven Jewish Children – or organisations such as B’Tselem, HRW or the PSC (particularly the Islington branch). Also posts supporting Seth Freedman’s book as he needs to sell the other copy.

8. Keep it relevant. We know that some conversations can be wide-ranging, but if you post something which points out the complete fallacy of a post denigrating Israel or the US it will be deemed “off-topic” and may be removed, in order to keep the thread on track. You will also lose your posting rights or become premoderated (the same thing). We rely on Jewish posters to watch for purported instances of antisemitism as we know they will do it, thus saving us money – which we need to do having taken a bath by betting the wrong way on the dollar/sterling exchange rate.

9. Be aware that you may be misunderstood, so try to be clear about what you are saying, and expect that people may understand your contribution differently than you intended. Remember that text isn’t always a great medium for conversation: tone of voice (sarcasm, humour and so on) doesn’t always come across when using words on a screen. You can help to keep the guardian.co.uk community areas open to all viewpoints by maintaining a constant and running agreement wih the GWV.

10. The platform is ours, but the conversation belongs to everybody who identifies with the GWV. We want this to be a welcoming space for any discussion aligned with the GWV, and we expect participants to help us achieve this by notifying us of potential problems and helping each other to keep conversations on track and appropriately fawning. If you spot something problematic in community interaction areas, please report it. If it is about Israel then we will take it as support for the problematic comment.

————————-

Note the entire post above is a PARODY. See also our Fair Use Notice.

Categories: Guardian

Tagged as: ,

40 replies »

  1. It is of course telling that the above parody cannot be distinguished from the “reality” of the repressive, anti-Semitic GWV.

  2. The key to maintaining guardian.co.uk as an inviting space is to focus on intelligent discussion of the GWV.

    That is stunningly funny in view actual discourse permitted on CIF.

  3. And thank you to this site for enabling me to ‘publish’ comments from CIF that the moderators there delete for completely unfathomable reasons.

    Reasons somewhat clarified by the parody above.

  4. Great fun post, and I think it works out as a successful parody because the way the GWV is described here as a thought-control instrument captures something that’s really happening there with the seemingly arbitrary deletion of posts.

    Yesterday, there was a particularly striking example of the “GWV community” on display: they had a piece by the heroic Iraqi shoe thrower — I read the first page of comments, and except for 2 or 3 people who asked: why didn’t you throw a shoe at Saddam? there was uniform adulation and “hero” worship. It was quite pathetic.

    On some of the other threads here on this site — but also on Cif!!! — a number of people have said that they are getting tired of ever the same arguments there, and some have said that in a way, it’s really the pro-Israel posters that make Cif’s I-P threads a “hit” success. Something to think about over the holidays perhaps: maybe CifWatch offers a good alternative to respond to the posts that are published over there without getting involved into the broken-record debate that usually prevails there.

    Anyway: shana tova ve’metuka!

  5. On some of the other threads here on this site — but also on Cif!!! — a number of people have said that they are getting tired of ever the same arguments there, and some have said that in a way, it’s really the pro-Israel posters that make Cif’s I-P threads a “hit” success. Something to think about over the holidays perhaps: maybe CifWatch offers a good alternative to respond to the posts that are published over there without getting involved into the broken-record debate that usually prevails there.

    Not a bad idea.

    Has merit.

  6. Heh, heh!

    Funny – and accurate.

    “and yet we will apply our own standards whenever we so wish. ”

    “keep conversations on track and appropriately fawning.”

    Exactly!!

  7. Abba in Latma’s studio with English subs ( – or Ivrit if you prefer )

    Just saw it 15 minutes ago and wanted to share it with CW and you got there before me. It’s hilarious !!!

    Shana Tova to all.

  8. A very good example of the GWV is this post of Berchmans on the Daniel levy thread (ven got recommendations):

    Berchmans
    18 Sep 09, 7:34pm (about 2 hours ago)
    Keo2008

    .

    ## the Charter contains sections that are antiSemitic and which dehumanise Jews.##

    .

    You repeat this over and over as if it is a fundamental issue in the ME but I will acknowlege Hamas personnel probably hate Jews now. There are generally reasons things happen ,

    You have played the they hate Jews card enough…care to try and explain why?

    B

  9. peterthehungarian

    I posted part of the Hamas charter that showed their hatred of Jews (on a different question) – which is anti semitic to the core. The comment was deleted. I think in a forum where the issues are debated, and the European left is trying really hard to moderate (or mainstream) Hamas, that the truth about such a controversial player in the Middle East should be fair game for debate. Nothing exposes Hamas like their charter. They wrote the damn thing. Its their constitution and they refuse to renounce it or change it.

    So the Guardian doesn’t mind if your opinion is that Jews are racist. You can post that all day long, but the truth about Hamas, as written in their own charter, will be deleted. Truthfully, it makes no sense – and its very frustrating.

  10. Please put up the pictures of these people,a sort of wall of shame.And a former picture of Seth Freedman where he had his mouth open,they later changed that picture, after I commented that he looked like a fly catcher with his open mouth.

  11. TomWannacot – So the Guardian doesn’t mind if your opinion is that Jews are racist. You can post that all day long, but the truth about Hamas, as written in their own charter, will be deleted. Truthfully, it makes no sense – and its very frustrating

    Makes a lot of sense to the coven on the Guardian management. The sad thing is that so many lefty persons still read the rag. If they stopped buying it, The Guardian would collapse very quickly. The number of extreme detached anarchist loony lefties is actually very, very small but they seem to have made a concerted effort to insert themselves in the mainstream media to the detriment of all.

  12. This post was deleted. Now can anyone explain to me why it was deleted other than to not be aligned with the GWV.

    DairyMilk
    18 Sep 09, 12:46pm (1 minute ago)

    While official Israel is now focusing on out-maneuvering the implementation of Goldstone’s recommendations, it is also coming closer to a recognition that there may be consequences and repercussions for what happened during the Gaza operation.

    Well. You might see it that way.

    On the other hand, certain countries recognize Goldstone’s intentions. He may have kicked the ball into his own goal.

    Other countries will be alarmed to see that their indifference to certain UN bodies has brought about a situation where ‘Freedom Fighters are being offered a prize for their abominations. Those countries will now be examining the Goldstone reports findings to see where laughingly called ‘International Law’ must be redefined to take into account the kind of war that ‘Freedom fighters force onto the Western Liberal democracies. This will not doubt first involve blocking the Goldstone report in the Security Council and abrogating many of the powers that the laughingly called Human Rights Council has. After all, the Human Rights Council is now dominated by countries who have very little respect for Human Rights at all and some of them actually endorse removal of limbs as punishment.

    Dont laugh. Its true.

    I personally am waiting for information which might make Goldstones position untenable. He has taken the positions of extreme leftists and apologists for Freedom Fighting. He can always say that this was the evidence presented to him and if Israel refused to bring him the evidence that would refute what he heard from Palestinians then the results are the report as it is.

    He flagrantly disregards that his ‘findings will be used by apologists for terrorism to try to force Israel to explain the various methods that it uses to fight Freedom Fighting. That includes listening to communications, planting listening devices etc. All the things that ‘Freedom Fighters need to know to try to negate their impact when the next round flares up.

    Trying to instill in IDF soldiers worrying about some consequences in International courts for their actions while fighting heroic Freedom Fighters hidden behind innocent civilians.

    In other words. Hobble the IDF. Hobble the allies who are fighting Muslim Freedom Fighters in Afghanistan, Pakistan and a host of other Islamic countries.

    ‘Cast Lead was such a collapse for Freedom Fighters. The IDF managed to kill more that 600 of their finest. Their world must have fallen in.

    Well. As I said. Goldstone may have bitten off a bit more than he expected

  13. Dairy Milk – Now can anyone explain to me why it was deleted other than to not be aligned with the GWV.

    I noticed that it had gone. It was well recommended too.

    Actually. That could be the reason.

    Georgina isn’t happy when posts not aligned to the GWV get recommendations.

    Such is the coven that rules The Guardian.

  14. It was a very sensible and well thought out post Dairy which may be the problem. Have you noticed that the posts that get the highest recommendation scores and don’t get deleted are often the most simplistic and lacking in content. Apart from the first ten or so in any thread in which the lazy readers click automatically on anything that gets recommended later is likely to be of this variety:

    Berchmans
    18 Sep 09, 12:39pm (about 23 hours ago)

    Jubilation1

    ## Syrian army ..7,000 to 40,000 people were killed, Why did Israel do so badly if this was their aim? ##

    Israel had obviously decided to kill a certain number and just about a thousand seems a good number…enough to try to get the govt re elected on a stand up for Israel platform.. but less than Syria and a lot less than the free shootin’ US and UK ..who do not need to worry about US relations for support.

    The war was a political stunt. It is laughable to see it any other . way

    B

  15. JerusalemMite, Dairy Milk

    Do they want the statistics behind the comments only? No criticism, no exposure of their biased articles?

    I wonder how many of their ghastly groupies (to be polite) managed to look ahead of the present furore as you did, Dairy Milk.

  16. Hawkeye – here’s a wonderful example of how the GWV is carefully maintained, and is also my nomination for the next Berchman’s award:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/18/opposition-protests-iran-quds-day?commentid=2b4e8bab-5ec2-47cc-bf0c-0268b3f445b6

    As you can see, although many comments are deleted within seconds if they do not conform to the GWV, this perfect example of Holocaust denial has, so far, been sitting there for an hour. I’ll put in a couple of line breaks to make this liyttle gem even clearer:

    abbas123

    19 Sep 09, 9:05pm (about 1 hour ago)

    If what German forces did to Jews is Holocaust then what do you say about American bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

    We are not sure about the Holocaust since there are many evidences that say Holocaust didn’t took place.

    Even if we assume Holocaust took place it does not justify the Israeli’s illegal occupation of Palestine.

    Dr. Ahmadinejad is correct to call Israel as Racist because these people have built an apartheid wall which is causing the Palestinians reduced freedoms, road closures, loss of land, increased difficulty in accessing medical services, restricted access to water sources, and economic effects. The UN General Assembly asked the International Court of Justice to evaluate the legal status of Israels separation wall. In July 2004, the Court declared the illegality of the wall. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other Human rights groups have protested both the routing of the wall and the means by which the land to build the wall was obtained. In a 2004 report Amnesty International wrote that “The fence/wall, in its present configuration, violates Israels obligations under international humanitarian law.”The Red Cross has declared the barrier in violation of the Geneva Convention. On February 18, 2004, The International Committee of the Red Cross stated that the Israeli barrier “causes serious humanitarian and legal problems” and goes “far beyond what is permissible for an occupying power”. People wake up and stop these Racist Governments (America and Israel).

  17. Holocaust denial – going on 3 hours now ….

    abbas123

    19 Sep 09, 9:05pm (about 3 hours ago)

    If what German forces did to Jews is Holocaust then what do you say about American bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki? We are not sure about the Holocaust since there are many evidences that say Holocaust didn’t took place.

  18. cityca

    I looked for your comments and didn’t find them. I counted the deletions of comments on that article. There are 57. Of course there’s no way of knowing how many, like yours, didn’t reach the page.

    23numbers 1
    alemild 1
    badleeroy 1
    BentheRed 1
    Berchmans 2
    BlindInjustice 2
    BloodDiamonds 1
    boule 1
    btbLondon 1
    Dikaisyne 1
    Dubbleganger 1
    endofdays 1
    epidermoid 1
    FCBarca 1
    Frites 1
    FromMe2U 3
    georgeindia 1
    GrumpyWelshGit 1
    gymnutkamal 1
    imasmadashell 1
    Insightful 4
    Janissary 1
    johnsexton 1
    katsainsbury 1
    liebermanisright 1
    maceasy 1
    Melkan 1
    orwellwasright 2
    pburman505 1
    pizzadeliveryninja 1
    prebender 1
    presidio 1
    Ranong 1
    schlick 3
    SergioBramsole 1
    shadesofgray 1
    simonealbuquerque 4
    spectreovereurope 1
    stevehill 1
    StringerBell 1
    tarang 1
    The Trustworthy 1
    therealsalparadise 1
    truthandjustice28 1

  19. Someone at the Guardian is reading this column:

    abbas123

    19 Sep 09, 9:05pm (about 5 hours ago)
    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.

  20. Well, talknic has been outed in his latest incarnation by Yotam on the Whitaker Yemen thread, and I see that Dikaisyne has piled on as well . So just in case his/her comment is dleted, here it is for the records:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/18/yemen-war-cimes?commentid=a43591e4-3593-41c5-8ae4-6ff59362246e

    Dikaisyne

    talknic

    20 Sep 09, 1:52am (52 minutes ago)

    No one has a mandate to investigate war crimes when there is no war.

    Well, Whitaker seems to disagree with you – he calls them war crimes:

    War crimes in Yemen?

    If he [Goldstone – JB]did, would that somehow annul the recent report and if his reports are so bad, why do you want him to write more reports on other places?

    I don’t think he should write reports at all, but Whitaker and the Guardian sub-head editors seem to admire his efforts and think he should shuttle off to Yemen:

    After Gaza, the next task for Judge Goldstone could be Yemen where the government continues to fight a rebellion in the north

    Your demands really don’t make much sense. This one is outstanding…

    “They could start with Nasser’s use of poison gas against Yemenies about 50 years ago.”

    Why not? The typical complaints on CIF against Israel involve bringing up often imaginary “crimes” and faked quotes from 50 or, in your case, 62 years ago – in fact, I recall seeing you complain about the treatment given to the Jebusites 3000 years ago. Its about time Egypt was brought to book for its crimes against humanity in Yemen. Of course, given that members of the UNHRC such as Libya, Cuba, etc. are by and large the countries most complicit in these sort of crimes, I doubt they’ll be calling for any inquiries any time soon.

    Meanwhile Israel is part of the UNHCR (sic) why hasn’t it brought all these other areas up and demanded reports from someone whose reports it doesn’t value?

    Actually, Mr. hair-spiltting resident expert on everything, you’ll find that Israel is not a member of the UNHRC (Human Rights Council) that commissioned the totally flawed Goldstone report:

    http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/past_current_members.htm

    and this is not the same organization as the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees- aka UN Refugee Agency), which is a little more disturbed than you appear to be about the refugee situation in Yemen, though given Australia’s past and present treatment of aborigines I can understand why you can so easily shrug this off by trying to pick legal loopholes in human tragedies:

    http://www.unhcr.org/4ab3a7d49.html

    UNHCR struggles to help the internally displaced in northern Yemen
    News Stories, 18 September 2009

    The refugee agency had earlier issued a statement saying it was “alarmed” by reports that dozens of people had been killed and wounded on Wednesday in an air raid on Al Adi in neighbouring Amran governerate. There has been a lull in fighting in the past two days, which allowed UNHCR’s local partners to distribute some aid in Sa’ada.

    The latest media reports add urgency to the UN’s repeated appeals for opening of humanitarian corridors in northern Yemen that would allow civilians to leave the conflict zone and enable humanitarian workers to deliver much aid in this remote part of the country. This remains a top priority for UNHCR.

    The conflict in the north has forced some 150,000 people to flee their homes since first flaring up in 2004, including Ghalia and the two young daughters she was pulling along behind her when they caught up with UNHCR in the town of Khaiwan, located in Amran governorate.

    Rather puts Cast Lead in the minor leagues, doesn’t it? But I don’t notice the hordes of screaming “humanitarians” protesting about this on CIF. In fact, this may well be the only the third article on CIF to reference this conflict this year and I wonder how many – or how few – have been written in the last 5 years – despite numerous articles about the Yemeni plane crash and piracy,

    Israel is not alone in its views about Goldstone’s report:

    From Canada:

    Hon. Peter Kent (Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Americas), CPC):

    Mr. Speaker, I would remind this House that the so-called fact-finding commission was the creation of one of the United Nations most flawed bodies, the Human Rights Council, which includes some of the UNs least democratic states.
    —————–

    You attempts at presenting yourself as an expert in international law (and everything else) would be hilarious if they weren’t so repetitively nitpicking cut and paste – and wrong.

  21. Hi AKUS

    Not only Holocaust denial but open and outright anti-Semite posts on CIF

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/18/irving-kristol-dies-neoconservatism?commentid=8945db6d-c450-46ec-8db1-df457e1c14dd

    Khondakar
    18 Sep 09, 11:53pm (about 16 hours ago)

    He was a communist when it suited his ethnocentric interest.He was with corrupt Scoop Jackson then to Reagan against Carter.He was with the world view of G Bush for it jelled well with his etnocentric interest, there was no “America” in his blood except when it led to framing of foreign policy that nurtured Isarel
    Recommend? (7)

    This post has been deleted but somehow I doubt that Khondakar will be banned, he will continue to “serve useful purposes”

    An other wisdom of CIF’s favorite Berchmans:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/18/israel-goldstone-report?commentid=ff78befa-b36a-4e36-a41d-6053b2f60bf5

    Berchmans
    18 Sep 09, 7:34pm
    Keo2008

    .

    ## the Charter contains sections that are antiSemitic and which dehumanise Jews.##

    .

    You repeat this over and over as if it is a fundamental issue in the ME but I will acknowlege Hamas personnel probably hate Jews now. There are generally reasons things happen ,

    You have played the they hate Jews card enough…care to try and explain why?

    B

    In other words – the antisemitism of hamas is justified.

    You should realize that on CIF this is only a different day but the same shit.

  22. You fuckin KIKES seem to have a nice hate fest going on here.
    The whole world is waking up to your degenerate ways and it will soon be all over for you.
    Soon we will finish what Hitler started

  23. You should all be aware that the world is waking up to the degenerate ways of the jew.
    For you all, it will soon be over

  24. Henry Ford: You should all be aware that the world is waking up to the degenerate ways of the jew.
    For you all, it will soon be over
    ———————————
    What makes you think that this generation of dull brained anti-semites will be any more effective in ensuring that it is all over for the Jews than their predecessors over the past two thousand years?

  25. Henry Ford

    You should post your opinion on CIF. There you will have many recommendations and the applause of Berchmans – even you could have invited to contribute above the line.

  26. I wonder if Henry Ford would let CW know how he found this site, which focuses its attention pretty clearly on the Guardian’s CIF site?

    If so, it is yet another indication of the Guardian’s role in attracting anti-Semites and thus indirectly stoking hatred of Jews, even if Henry Ford was not permitted to post the kinds of things s/he has posted here.

    Henry – if you’re out there reading this please let me know what led you to this site – I’m curious to know if it was via references on CIF.

  27. The Guardian seems unwilling to tolerate even the slightest criticism of Islam, or an indication that it might be less than tolerant towards its minorities, even when a Muslim writes a funny column about his religion.

    Rather a graphic example of the GWV and the frustration it causes.

    PeterNW1 should try moving his comments to a site where comment is free and facts are sacred.

    ———–

    From Khaled Diab’s somewhat tongue-in-cheek article about fatwas in Egypt:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/sep/19/fatwa-rulings-fashion-religion

    peterNW1
    20 Sep 09, 9:01am (about 13 hours ago)

    This was the jist of my deleted post …

    Khaled tells us that hijabless women are becoming “an increasingly marginalised minority.” Since 15% of Egyptians are Christian Copts, it’s pretty clear that that marginalised minority is going to be the Copts. The Copts are an underclass in Egypt who suffer both official discrimination (Copts have to get government permission to build (or even renovate) a church while there is no similar legislation for mosques; Copts are also discriminated against in public-sector job recruitment) and unofficial discrimination (there is a constant drum beat of news reports of hate-crime and physical assaults against Copts.) Khaled has written a number of informative and entertaining articles on Egyptian society, but as far as I know, he has never addressed the plight of his country’s underclass.

    I cannot see why that post was deleted (unless the Guardian has started employing Egyptian government officials as moderators.) The facts in my post can easily be checked online …

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copt

    I ask the moderators again – why was it deleted?

    —-

    VoltaireRules
    20 Sep 09, 9:52am (about 12 hours ago)

    peterNW1

    Maybe the Mods apply Islamics Norms or Islamic articles

    I think it would be good to have a few more introspective articles highlighting social issues like this.

    Maybe Ingla BugerdifIcanspellhisname could do one on the tolerance of Christians and Hindus in Pakistan.

    —-

    peterNW1
    20 Sep 09, 6:30pm (about 3 hours ago)

    VoltaireRules writes …

    “peterNW1 Maybe the mods apply Islamic norms for Islamic articles”

    I’m not sure what you mean by “Islamic norms”, but if it is true that articles on Islamic subjects written by Muslims (or articles on Islamic subjects written by non-Muslims) are indeed moderated according to a different set of criteria from the rest of Comment Is Free (and even from the rest of the Belief section), then surely it would be reasonable to state somewhere on Cif what those criteria are?

    The current system, when perfectly inoffensive posts are deleted simply because a moderator disagrees with their contents, is bewildering and — one would have thought — contrrary to the spirit of Comment is Free.

  28. AKUS – though this is probably more for peterNW1 who isn’t here: I read something even worse today. In Egypt there is a Christian sect whose members are allowed to be garbage collectors. They are also allowed to keep pigs which eat the food waste. In the swine flu scare all the pigs in Egypt were slaughtered leaving this sect with no means of subsistence and no food. The slaughter was apparently very cruel.

    Cairo is even more full of rubbish and filth than before.

  29. My post above to cityca should attach to a different article here, sorry. The statistics relate to comments on the Kosky article.

  30. Ariadne – yes – this article about the pigs seems to be doing the rounds on peoples’ e-mail lists.

    Quite funny really! The unintended consequences of the swine flu panic? Like the breast-feeding fatwa, or the rumored Israeli attempt to sterilize Egyptians with bubble gum, you couldn’t make this stuff up!!

    There’s a funny picture of goats eating the trash now the pigs are gone. I suppose its an ecologically friendly way to deal with the problem, but it was disconcerting to read in the article about this special group of garbage collectors who live in the cliffs around Cairo. It gives one an idea of the poverty in that country. I’ve just been reading Alan Moorehead’s books “The White Nile” and “The Blue Nile” and he references those cliff dwellings from the 1800s – time seems to move slowly in Cairo.

    ————

    Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/world/africa/20cairo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp

  31. Ariadne,
    Thanks for the support and even though it was on a different article, its just as applicable.

    I really love this sensible and funny denouement of the GWV – priceless and spot on. Good to learn about ‘pre-moderation’, i.e. the practice of posting and then being told your post will be moderated before it appears. I wrote complaining about this to Georgina Henry because I didn’t know what was going on. She wrote back to say she would pass it on to the mods for them to deal with. I’ve yet to hear more.

    I do hope we can get the more of the media aware of what the Grauniad is doing – its ripe for exposure and being exposed for what it’s become.

    Re Henry Ford. Please don’t delete his comments. Its good to see some unreconstructed race hate to remind us all of what’s what’s really behind much of the underlying antisemitism that appears on CiF.

  32. Oh, dear! That 569,000 needs to be divided by rather a lot. There’s Cif and other things…

    Taking out a lot of irrelevant things CiF Watch still seems to have at least 20,000 entries.

  33. Just an up-to-date example on the Bungle thread. Pity I missed the original.

    PeterParker

    23 Sep 09, 5:03pm (14 minutes ago)

    Why has a link showing that 40% of British Muslims of supportive of Sharia Law been modded?

    I know the mods here are really sensitive about offending Muslims (more than any other group), but that was not on.

    Live long…and long live freedom of speech.

  34. I reported an antisemitic comment from ScottVA on the Irving Kristol thread, which stated that all his political views were based on his ‘ethnocentric’ allegiance to another country against the interests of the US.

    I don’t like telling tales like that, but the comment had been sitting there for some hours until I reported it and it was removed.

    It seems astonishing to me that some of the things posted by people like berchmans, moeran, laritournelle, and the rest are tolerated. The GWV seems to regard them as jokey banter rather than deadly serious statements with consequences.