General Antisemitism

Inside Britain’s Irish Lobby


Good evening. My name’s Peter O’Boring of Channel 4. I’m in this bar in Queens, New York to investigate a little known but very rich and powerful lobby group: the Irish Lobby. In every city in the world there is an Irish bar, often called O’Flanagan’s. A Channel 4 production company, Hardcore Productions, has sent incognito cameramen into these bars in New York, Chicago and other US cities with cameras in their skirts and they have photographic evidence that Americans of Irish extraction meet in these bars to drink Guinness – sometimes to excess. We stress that we have no evidence that any kind of IRA conspiracy to blow up parts of London and murder thousands of innocent civilians mercilessly in cold blood takes place in these bars (but since when did we let a small thing like lack of evidence get in the way). Ireland is a wonderful and extraordinary country with a rich and flourishing democratic history. It has a profound right to exist. But this moral legitimacy does not mean that the foreign and internal policies of Ireland should be exempt from the same kind of probing criticism that any independent state must expect. Nor does it mean that the rights of Ulstermen to their own state in Northern Ireland can be ignored. Nor does it mean that critics of Ireland should be branded haters of Catholics.

David Cameron has never commented on IRA atrocities. It is impossible to imagine any British political leader showing such equanimity and tolerance if British troops had committed even a fraction of the human rights abuses and war crimes of which the IRA has been accused.

The fact that Michael O’Leary, the owner of Ryanair, lives in a house called Gigginstown House which is worth £3 million only heightens suspicions.

Our researchers have established that the American-Irish and their businesses have donated more than £10m to Irish clubs and lobby groups in the UK over the past eight years – that’s more than to any other lobby. It is surely a matter of profound concern that UK foreign policy may be being influenced by a group which opposes British policy in Northern Ireland.

The pro-Ireland lobby, in common with other lobbies, has every right to operate in the UK. But it needs to be far more open about how it is funded and what it does. This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding the funding arrangements and activities of organisations such as O’Flanagans Bar, Cricklewood Broadway, the London Irish Centre and the Conservative Friends of Ireland paradoxically give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. But it is mainly because politics in a democracy should never take place behind closed doors. It should be out in the open and there for all to see.

54 replies »

  1. There is a master plan for Irish domination of the world. It’s called the Protocols of the Elders of Seán .

  2. This is simply shocking! And they all drink Guiness, you say? Outrageously supremacist! Do they think Guiness is in any way superior to pale ale just because Guiness is Irish? Looks to me as if this was just the tip of the iceberg…

  3. What about the Scottish Lobby? They get Members in both the Scottish and English Parliaments.

  4. Mr Oboring that was a brave effort to escape mentioning the real point at which the Irish lobby parts from the norm. You can talk about your shamrocks, your Irish pubs and your Guinness but without discussing the shameful wall that continues to grow month by month in Belfast the story is horribly incomplete. Your people pretended that it had to do with ”peace” and called it the Peace Wall but with the cessation of hostilities that wall goes on growing and the reason is seen to be merely an excuse.

    Admit it. It is the Wall-Builders-Union and their outrageous Church that drives all of Ireland and their wall building. Their claws have stretched out to include the USA now and their lobby has put police chiefs and even presidents of the country in place and others into prestigious positions. There are Union members who own entertainment companies and banks, newspapers and newsites. A former national American poet was commissioned by the Union to write a poem with a line that became famous: “Good fences make good neighbours”. Now, if you look at the Southernmost border of the USA what are they building? Yes, they are building a huge complex hi-tech wall between the USA and Mexico. Surprised? You shouldn’t be.

    They have reached the Middle East as well. The Saudis are building a wall that I have on good authority is budgeted to cost an eventual seven billion dollars. This is a huge triumph for them and the celebration that accompanied its announcement could have been seen from the moon.

    There are rumours that the wall between Israel and the West Bank is one of their schemes but it is a puny thing, not very long and most of it is fence. Besides which, the concrete comes from Ramallah.

  5. a bit off topic, but I was keen to see if you guys, in the name of fairness, balance and not singling out the Guardian and holding them to higher standards than others (recognise that phrase?) will be monitoring anti-muslim bigotry in the Daily Mail & Daily Express?

  6. John Bloxham

    As you will see The Guardian keeps us more than fully occupied.

    But by all means do it yourself.

  7. This is a very serious topic, their tentacles of influence even extend into sport.

    The Irish Lobby are so powerful they’ve had a Rugby team named after them, London Irish.

    More sinister is the fact that the mascot is an Irish Wolfhound.

    This deserves further investigation! Channel 4 where are you?

  8. Why are there no St George’s flags to be seen in the Kop at Anfield?
    Why are 70% of Liverpool’s primary schools Catholic?
    Has Ireland colonised the North West of England?
    Why were there no passport checks for many years on Irish travellers to the UK?

    Hardcrap Productions reveals all ….

  9. Let’s forget Tinkers, they are not the problem.

    It is the insidious influence that the Irish Lobby has on Government, they even set up a British-Irish Council, [nudge, nudge, wink, wink]

    That’s how far their influence reaches, into the heart of Government and beyond.

  10. Let’s not forget that the Fab Four were of Irish descent, and we all know that John Lennon was quite a revolutionary in his time.

    The Paddy Mafia has its tentacles into sport, show business, gambling, crime, the police force, and not least, the media, and not least, the BBC.

    It’s strange that these UK foreigners of Catholic origin are treated so complacently given that their primary alliegance is to a foreign country which, as we know, couldn’t take sides during WW2 between the Axis Powers and the Allies.

    I wonder if Ahmadinejad has a nuke-tipped missile aimed at the Irish Republic?

  11. PS. There is no Jewish lobby as such, but I know one or two Jewish lobbuses not a million miles from CiFWatch….

  12. Not forgetting the issue of dual loyalty, since the Anglo-Irish treaty, the British have been able to reside in Ireland, eventually voting and the same was true for Irish living in Britain.

    But let me make it clear, I have nothing against the Irish, some of them are my best friends….

    I don’t want to concentrate on individuals.

    It those secret meetings of the Irish Lobby power brokers that is the problem.

    They are so powerful that they even get the British to salute their saint, on the 17th of March every year. That is influence.

    Not that I have anything against the Irish, of course, my best friends….

  13. No, come on … you are all being beastly to Peter Oborne.

    Peter Oborne is is a wonderful and extraordinary man with a rich and flourishing democratic history. He has a profound right to exist.

    But this moral legitimacy does not mean that the TV programmes he makes should be exempt from the same kind of probing criticism that any programme maker must expect. This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding his activities can paradoxically give rise to conspiracy theories – such as that he has a problem with Israel – that have no basis in fact.

    I feel sure it will not be long before he makes “Inside Britain’s Arab Lobby.”

    Besides surely every TV programme maker is allowed one farcical ludicrous fiasco of a failure?

  14. You managed to write this without even mentioning the well known multimillionaire Irish Kennedy family and their influence on the foreign and domestic policies of this country and the USA. It was well known that Teddy Kennedy’s word gave the yea or nay for every measure that was up for the Senate. And what about the Livingstone-Kilburn Irish connection? And the key role of Terry Wogan in controlling the BBC? You kept very quiet about all of that. How many barrels of Guinness was that worth?

  15. Hi CiFWatch.

    This blog is amazing and I speak as a refugee, long ago, from CiF.

    This article is a real hoot, but it works at so many levels. We keep on hearing about the alleged similarities between the I/P conflict and the Irish troubles and the less savvy seem to believe that the solution for the latter can be tweaked slightly in order to map onto the former.

    Of course it cannot. The I/P conflict is much more complex and the Islamist hatred of Jews and Israelis much more intense and deliberately cranked up.

    And, of course, the Irish are not Jews.

  16. I just want to say what I think needs to be said.

    Jonathan, I heard you on a video of the Shlomo, Shlaim, Rose discussion.

    You basically bolstered Shlomo’s claim that there is no civil marriage in Israel, by saying you could marry in Cyprus.

    Rose said, publicly, you were proving Shlomo right.

    You didn’t think before you spoke. You often do not think before you speak (or write, perhaps),

    You made a prat of yourself. I think you often make a prat of yourself.

    Someone has to say it.

    And if you do not mend your ways, you will do more harm than good.

  17. The Irish Lobby’s agents within the British media are extensive, Eamonn Holmes and Gloria Hunniford are just two.

    Dara Ó Briain has taken over from Dave Allen and Eamonn Andrews soft soaping people and denying the existence of the Irish Lobby, and who can forget Spike Milligan?

    Say no more.

    The more they deny it, the more it is true!

  18. The Irish Lobby’s agents within the British media are extensive, Eamonn Holmes and Gloria Hunniford are just two.

    Dara Ó Briain has taken over from Dave Allen and Eamonn Andrews soft soaping people and denying the existence of the Irish Lobby, and who can forget Spike Milligan?

    Say no more.

    The more they deny it, the more it is true!

  19. Zkharya, I fail to understand your view for any of a number of reasons, most of which you yourself know.

    1. Jonathan’s response was factual and correct.

    2. The same situation exists in Lebanon, for the same reasons (co-existence of communities), with the same solution, with no ruckus.

    3. The problem is an Israeli internal one and no the business of the world outside Israel – and certainly not for renegade expats to blast around the world.

    4. Many another countriesy (Ireland comes to mind) have been slow to split marriage from religion without similar world-wide attack.

    5. The origins of the system were in actuality created by the British themselves, by delegating marriage to communities. In turn, the British relied upon the Ottoman millet arrangement. Why is a system praised as tolerant when Ottomans (Muslims) are concerned, suddenly horrific when Jews continue the same system?

    6. Whenever the repressive systems of (say) Iran or Malaysia are mentioned, the left is quick to insist it is imperialis or colonialist for the West to impose its values on other cultures. So why does not the same apply to Israel? Why doesn’t it have a similar right to determine its own values?

    7. In a situation in which Israel continues to fight for its existence, the problem of the small number of inter-marriage couples making a day trip to Cyprus is a minor one. Making it a major issue is nothing but a form of double standard, hyer-scrutiny of Israel.

  20. We Irish and the Israeli’s,should join forces and form a joint lobby and take over Britain.If we don’t then the Muslims will.Sharia law and all.

  21. I think PatrickOMalley is an agent provocateur, trying stir up hatred against Muslim, best ignored.

  22. zkarya, what would you have liked Jonathan to say? There is no civil marriage in Israel, should he have pretended that there is? It’s a much debated issue, legitimately so in Israel, but why is it the British are so interested in it? That’s just like the recent Freedman article about Israel’s drinking problem…
    For your information, Kadima and Israel Beytenu both promised in the last election campaign to push for civil marriage — guess what: when the political horse-trading began, they both backed down… Like many other issues that need to be resolved, this is a problem that time and again falls through the cracks because of Israel’s proportional representation system. Israel is, after all, just 6 decades old, and given what it had to cope with right from the first day (and before), it’s a country that’s doing very well, thank you very much.
    And Jonathan is clearly doing an admirable job — at least in the Israeli press, it’s always him who is quoted as speaking up against all the assorted British Israel-bashers and antisemites, while others seems to shine in subdued silence.

    Anyway, aside from zkarya’s misanthropic grumbling, this was a real fun thread and a great piece — I learnt a lot about the pernicious omnipotence of the Irish Lobby! Come to think of the good old days in New York — they even lighted the Empire State building in a garish green when the Irish said so!!!

  23. Yet more proof that the Irish plan for omnipotence (as detailed in the Protocols of the Elders of Seán) has succeeded: They’ve placed one of their own in the most powerful position on earth – Barack O’Bama!

  24. I know it’s off-topic, but given that the issue was raised here– is there civil marriage in the Palestinian Authority areas and in Gaza? Which Arab countries have civil marriage? Have Shlomo Sand and Jacqueline Rose spoken out about this? The point about marriage in Cyprus is that the marriage is subsequently recognised as valid by the israeli authorities. Does that count in countries under Islamic law for Muslims who contract civil marriages?

  25. Adloyada: something that nobody has pointed out at all is that a civil contract is recognised in Israel as well. No legal marriage ceremony is carried out but it is in effect a common law marriage with conditions arranged to suit both parties. It is of course easier to break up the partnership in that there is no necessity to go through the expense of a divorce.

  26. At all Shlomo Sand’s London appearances inclusing radio and TV he said ‘In Israel a Jew may not marry an Arab’. At the Frontline Club I explained the reality, as noted above.

    Sand of course says it in front of non-Israeli audiences to deliberately demonise Israel.

    As I say in my JC letter today, how appalling that former IDF officers are not coming to the UK for fear of arrest whereas Sand – who foments hatred of Israel and Jews through his lies – has unhindered access.

  27. How sad that Sand has to lie to be accepted and how much sadder for us that his gullible audience gobbles up his invented picture of Israel. There are many such instances.

    Recently I saw a brilliant analysis of the article by Oborne’s that was published on cif as an advert for his Jewish lobby Dispatches, where point by point his claims were proved to be made of whole cloth in precisely the same way you have just demonstrated for us, Jonathan.

  28. Most readers will gather by now that this was a satirical post, and it shows in many ways how you could stitch together unconnected facts to portray a negative picture of a country, a religious group or an ethnicity.

    Clearly, people who are hung up on either the Irish or the Israelis will hunt around, obsessively, looking for any perceived misdemeanour or crime, and make comparably trivial issues, such as civil marriage, into big ones.

    Not because these issues are intrinsically that important, but because they have a need to moan about Israel.

    It is that compunction to moan, blow up petty grievances and grip that is so characteristic of the anti Israeli obsessive.

    Perhaps in light of this post, a few people might want to reconsider their own pet hang ups and views on the “Israeli lobby” or even the “Irish Lobby”!

  29. Adloyada/Judy,

    you are right: marriage between different faiths is either non-existent or problematic, not just in Lebanon and Syria, but Egypt and elsewhere.

    Uri Davis had to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim women under the P.A.

    That would have been a legitimate point to raise. But Jonathan’s point was entirely an own goal. as Jacqueline Rose observed. Even now he forgets or doesn’t know that what Sand addressed was civil marriage in Israel i.e. there is none. He didn’t listen and shot his bolt, ineffectively, and impotently, as usual.

    He opened his mouth before engaging his brain, which he does a lot, I think.

    He also shouted out of turn, which gave the school marmish Rose a chance to tick him off for “unacceptable behaviour”. Cringingly embarassing. I would have felt totally undermined had I been there.

    ‘sorry, it’s the truth. I also doubt he’s capable of better. He lacks the maturity.

  30. Zkharya

    Any chance you could stop badmouthing me? I did nothing wrong at the Frontline meeting. I spent 4 nights last week at antisemitic meetings rebutting and I really don’t need ‘friendly fire’ from you.

    If you must badmouth me then do it on the phone and we can discuss it.

    Thank you.

  31. And if Jacqueline Rose is going to be your arbiter of the validity of my points in that meeting then I really fear for your judgment.

  32. http://frontlineclub.com/events/2009/11/avi-shlaim-in-conversation-with-shlomo-sand.html

    Right Zkharya let’s deal with your points.

    At 1.14 Sand says “You cannot marry a non-Jew in Israel”.

    I say “You can have a non-Jewish wife in Israel, you just get married in Cyprus ….. Tell the rest of the story, Shlomo – You are only telling half the story [in other words he did not say that there is no civil marriage in Israel] [I had no micophone so it is quiet – but it is audible]

    I get laughed at but so what? It speaks volumes about the poisonous Israel discussion in Europe, see Robin Shepherd’s book.

    Why don’t you tell them that at 51:47 I ask Sand a question which he refuses to answer?

    Why don’t you tell them that I was the only one to challenge him among about 150 people at Frontline and the only one to challenge him at SOAS on Wednesday among 300 people???

    So where were you? If you could not come then the least you could do is not snipe unjustifiably at one who could – and who did.

  33. “Cringingly embarassing. I would have felt totally undermined had I been there.”

    Good job you weren’t there then. Your contribution is in the backroom, that’s valuable. But in the frontline we don’t need diffident naysayers.

  34. Let’s see you in an audience of 150 all of whom seem to have been seduced by the propaganda of Sand, ably supported by Shlaim and Rose.

    Let’s see how you do, Zkharya.

  35. And you also need to know that after all these hostile meetings I hang around to talk to anyone who is willing to talk. In this case there were two young men, one of whom is doing a PhD. We talked for over an hour and I tried to deprogramme them from the anti-Israel brainwashing received from all the sources we know so well.

    I don’t normally make a big public deal of this (why would I…) but since you have attacked me, I mention it here.

    (The night before when I hung around I got (verbally) attacked by an antisemitic reptile):

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5534971/lesser-forms-of-pond-life-amongst-the-british-intelligentsia.thtml

  36. Jonathan,

    actually, if I wasn’t a cripple, and could get from a to b. I think I could do ok. I coped fine at MPCUK’s The Great Debate. You don’t know me, or my life. I’m not bad in crowds.

    But that’s not the point.

    Listen, I don’t care about you. I don’t care about me.

    Sand says you have to marry in London i.e. outside Israel. You’re saying “Cyprus”, while being more accurate, does not refute his essential point about lack of civil marriage.

    To which one could have said Israel is hardly alone in this in the region. In the P.A. a man has to convert to Islam. He sure does under Hamas. In which case, why do you (including likely some persons of non-Jewish middle eastern, or Muslim extraction in this room) wish to perfect the one Jewish state out of existence above umpteen Arab or Islamic states?

    Why is Zionism singled out for religious prejudices no less prevalent in the Palestinian Muslim and Christian national movement?

    If Rose says it’s because she wants the best of Israel “as a Jew”, then simply observe that her Jewishness manifests itself in no other fashion than to dissolve the Jewish state of Israel.

    At the end, when she says Hezl’s point that Jews are what their enemies have made them, applies no less of Palestinian Muslims and Christians, concede the point.

    Then simply add that among those enemies that have made Israeli, Palestinian and other Jews are also Palestinian Muslims and Christians.

    Jonathan if I was too strong, I’m sorry. But, you seem to take criticism very, very badly. I do not see how that is a good thing.

    On another note, I got to read Colin Shindlers SOAS talk, which is very good. It should be available generally soon. It’s chiefly historical, dealing with Jews under Stalin and European Communist parties. But it has some important info about the Palestinian Communist Party and how having been founded by Jews, and having admitted Palestinians from early on, under Stalin’s dictation its leadership soon came to be purged of Jews.

  37. Zkharya

    I am aware of your disability and I feel for you more than you know. That is why I rarely come down hard on you and thought long and hard about whether to do so here.

    You have to realise that in an audience of maybe 150 – all of whom are hostile and with a hostile Chair – it is simply not possible to say all that I/you might want to say.

    You have about 30 seconds before you get shouted down.

    The ‘whatabout’ argument (‘whatabout civil marriage in Arab States where it does not exist?’) is also not a response to Sand in my view. One has to say that there is no civil marriage in Israel (which I did – see above – it is just audible on the video and was certainly audible in the room – I did not have the microphone) but that that is an issue for Jews (eg non-Orthodox Jews) AND non-Jews – and therefore is not discriminatory against non-Jews.

    In the 30 seconds before being shouted down it is simply not possible to make that point. These meetings are a medieval bearbaiting spectacle. They are not conducted under any kind of ‘rules of debate’ that would be recognised in any civilised institution or nation. That is what we are up against in London in 2010.

    I accept your apology.

    End.

  38. ‘In Israel a Jew may not marry an Arab’

    It is shocking the extent to which Jewish anti-Semites are willing to make up facts. I know – and I am sure Sand knows – a number of inter-faith marriages.

    A more honest staement was Jonathan’s – Israeli law does not provide a mechanism for civil marriage, but does recognise civil contracts and civil marriages from abroad.

    With Iranian missiles pointed at Israel from Iran, Lebanon, and Gaza, I think the Israeli people have more to worry about than the inconvenience of a day trip to Cyprus for a small number of inter-faith couples.

  39. “With Iranian missiles pointed at Israel from Iran, Lebanon, and Gaza, I think the Israeli people have more to worry about than the inconvenience of a day trip to Cyprus for a small number of inter-faith couples.”

    An excellent point well put.