Guardian

Why was this deleted?


Of the large number of pro-Israel comments deleted yesterday on the Seth Freedman thread, this one stood out the most.

Needless to say that the Hamas Charter contains this:

“…the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).” [Hamas Charter, Article 7]

And here’s a video from Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV where the Hamas bunny, Assud, vows to eat Jews:


Come to think of it, maybe it was Bella Mackie that was on duty today because we already know that she thinks we’re making all of this up.

Remember this?

BellaM

03 Sep 09, 5:50pm

Staff Staff

They should swap Shalit for the 10,000 unnamed Arab prisoners and Marwan Barghouti.

Would you really want to show Hamas that you’re open to this type of negotiation? Israelis would be left incredibly vulnerable from this action. Hamas should not be allowed any kind of leverage from it’s action here. They cannot expect Israel to make any sort of progress with them until Shalit is given back to his family. The actions of Hamas in this story give credence to the myth that they don’t want peace. [emphasis added]

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41 replies »

  1. Its now hard to understand why that comment was deleted .
    ResearchK compared the Hamas to the Nazis and the population of Gaza to the germans who voted for the Nazi’s .
    And you can’t compare the Hitler to anyone , not even Hania .

  2. THH, there are many similarities between Hamas and the Nazis regime, besides its hatred of Jews.

    Another, besides the fact that it came into power “democratically” and then despatched all its opposition, as Hitler did, is the way in which it disposes of any Palestinian in Gaza who might agree with its policies – again much as Hitler did.

    But the main similarity for me is its behaviour towards its population during Cast Lead. It deliberately put them in danger by using them as human shields, their children as couriers and carriers of ammunition, and to play near rocket launching sites. This is very comparable to the way in which Hitler behaved during the closing days of WW2 when he used the Hitler Jugend and old people in the equivalent of the German home guard against the advancing Allied armies.

    Perhaps you’d like to share with us how you think Hamas behaves differently to its people than Hitler behaved to the Germans?

    I am not so sure (given the Hamas Charter which it seems you have never read) that if Hanniyeh had the power he wanted he wouldn’t do the same to the Israeli Jews and their sympathisers as Hitler did to the Jews and their sympathisers in the European countries he conquered, except Hamas would probably shoot Jews rather than gas them.

    You make such statements without supporting evidence. Provide some – ie that Hamas would treat Jews fairly if it ever got into Israel – and you might just be credible.

  3. you don’t have to teach me about hitler or about Hamas .
    and with your kind of logic I can say the same about Ketzale’.

    Hamas are a bunch of religious fascists but they are not Nazi’s .

  4. THH – the question you might want to ponder is whether, given the opportunity, Hamas would not behave like Nazis?

    Take the Taliban in Afghanistan, for example – are there really such huge differences in outlook or their desire to rule ina barbaric fashion? When they had the opportunity, they turned th place into hell for women, primarily, but any who did not follow their strict code.

    When you see the mass demonstrations orchestrated by Hamas in Gaza, Hizbollah in Lebanon, the mullahs in Iran – does it not remind you of Nazi Germany?

    They’ve studied the Nazi playbook pretty thoroughly, and it is only the limitations placed on them by Israel’s forceful response in Gaza and Lebanon that has stopped them. In Iran, we may actually see the people there finally putting an end to a regime which in many ways is hard to distinguish from the Nazi in all but scale.

  5. Hawkeye

    Of course, we can find all kinds of excuses why the Guardian deletes certain comments, but the one that seems to be the most realistic is related to moderators they hire. Its no coincidence that the political philosophy of the moderators reflect the philosophy of the Guardian.

  6. “They want to slaughter the Jews.”

    This post should have been deleted as unhelpful and trying to incite a fight on CIF. The Hamas charter says no such thing

    The old Hamas 88 charter did indeed,, stupidly and provocatively misuse the old papers. The Jews were the enemy at the time.You are tryng to extrapolate into present day anti Semitism and this bird dont fly.

  7. AKUS

    “They’ve studied the Nazi playbook pretty thoroughly, ”

    I campaigned for you to be allowed back into CIF. I cant remember why now! 🙂 You are insulting the victims of the real Nazis by likening the situations. Hamas are a bunch of hardened brutalised people fighting a sensationally successful military wonder.

    To imply that they are in the same league as the Nazis ..who nearly destroyed the world is alarmist and extremist. You would be the first to complain if Israel was assocaited with the Nazis( after me that is)

  8. Here are some more pro-Israel deletions from the recent David Hirsch thread:

    IsraelFirst

    15 Jan 2010, 3:52PM

    Jubilation, give up trying.

    Israelis feel compassion for children and adults caught in Hamas’s trap but Gazagirl won’t show a drop of pity compassion or fellow feeling for Israeli children hurt by people SHE voted into power.

    She doesn’t realise that animals in Israeli kibbutzim and towns were injured by the qassams and the mortars and other missiles that Hamas shot at the civilians. She is so caught up in her own self-pity that the suffering of others doesn’t even occur to her. In eight years of constant shelling the Israeli people begged the Gazans to get Hamas to stop terrifying the citizens but they were hard-hearted and didn’t even bother to reply.

    However their own pain is very real to them and they broadcast it to the world.

    itsikdewembley

    15 Jan 2010, 4:12PM

    @ Gazagirl

    I agree with you on many things and salut your love of children.

    But why aren’t you protesting in the streets to correct their so wrong racist school programms?

    Are you scared to get knee capped, thrown of building or stoned to death (after raping you?)

    Doesn’t stop the Iranians!
    Step up and stand for your freedom with the same passion you stand against Israelis and we’ll get along sooner than you’ll believe!
    epidermoid

    15 Jan 2010, 5:50PM

    Ercia

    Jenin, Beirut, Sabra and Shatillah, Palestinian refugee camps.
    Does that justify a homeland?

    No they certainly do not. Whatever makes you think they could?

    Jenin was home to mass murders, Beirut to organisations dedicated to the destruction of the Jews, Sabra and Shatillah a base for the PLO, and the refugee camps are where those that sought to kill the Jews and destroy Israel before it was born ended up. I see no merit there.

  9. I must say , for the first time , I almost totally agree with Abandon hope
    ” You are insulting the victims of the real Nazis by likening the situations. Hamas are a bunch of hardened brutalised people fighting a sensationally successful military wonder.

    To imply that they are in the same league as the Nazis ..who nearly destroyed the world is alarmist and extremist. You would be the first to complain if Israel was assocaited with the Nazis( after me that is)”

    The attention to details , the sophistication , the industrialization ,the scientific studies made on the human race to subhuman the Jews and the methods used to exterminate them are not even remotely similar to the primal hatred Hamas as towards Israelis .

    @Akus
    I’m not in the business of pondering about different situation that might have happen , and even if hamas would have ruled over Jews and killed them it wont be the same as the Nazis anyway .

  10. Abandon bs The old Hamas 88 charter
    You kept trying to sell that nonsense about a new Hamas charter on cif, Berchmans. Nobody bought it. You could never produce it and you were just proven to be the liar we all know you are.

    I won’t be deleted here for telling you the truth you deserve which is that lying for Hamas makes you a shill for murderers and terrorists and you can load all that guilt into your little postie trolley or van and think of it all day.

  11. Berchmans – no, I’m not “insulting the victims of the real Nazis by likening the situations.”

    I am pointing out what Hamas etc. would like to do if they had the chance.

    As has been pointed out ad nauseum, they spell it out in their charter word for word, and in their demonstrations. As has nasrallah in Lebanon, and Ahmedinajad in Iran.

    You probably find it hard to follow Arabic, but when you see one of those demonstrations, or listen to a clip on the net, try to listen for the word “Yahud”. That’s Arabic for “Jew”, and I assure you that they are not using it in any context designed to make Jews feel comfortable with their intentions. Watch the little children’s programs – they don;t talk about “Israel (after all, its verboten to use that word) – but “Yahud” – “Jew” to instill fear of jews and Jew-hatred in the tots.

  12. Hello Hawkeye

    Interesting that you see these comments as pro-Israeli rather than anti-Palestinian.

    The remark about animals being injured in Israel – as comparable to children in Gaza – would not elicit much sympathy or contribute to an understanding of the fear generated by the rocket fire. I say this as an animal lover. Does this comment lack perspective in your eyes ?

    As to Ercia seeing no merit in the places s/he cites – just a touch perhaps. of not seeing Palestinians as people?

    Can the Gazans protest in the streets? Israel is a democracy which allows the expression of dissent. So many posters characterise Hamas as a brutal totalitarian gvt. – to then ask Gazans to protest suggests they are free to decide for themselves. Which is it?

    Leni

  13. I feel this is where cifwatch should direct its energies,highlighting censored pro-Israel posts.I stopped posting on cif because about a third of my posts were censored.cif is simply propaganda and will not allow dissent.Comment is free my arse.
    P.S. I too was censored,(and actually banned)for daring to mention the throwing off roof incident.

  14. THH

    I’m not in the business of pondering about different situation that might have happen , and even if hamas would have ruled over Jews and killed them it wont be the same as the Nazis anyway .

    Except for the Jews?

    I think you are trying to point out they they wouldn’t conquer Europe (actually, that is yet another interesting discussion along the lines of Eurabia and I think you are missing the bigger picture).

    But my concern is what Hamas intends for the Jews, not the Europeans, just as yours seems to be the opposite. Quite understandable, but if you will not look after mine, who will?

  15. AKUS,

    “I think you are trying to point out they they wouldn’t conquer Europe (actually, that is yet another interesting discussion along the lines of Eurabia and I think you are missing the bigger picture).”

    Only interesting in a sort of deranged Mel Phillips sort of way…

    Eurabia? There are 300 odd million people in the EU, of whom less than 5% are Muslim – and many of those are non-Arab Turks, Pakistanis, Afghans, North Africans.

    The US will be “Los Estados Unidos” long before Europe is “Eurabia”.

    “But my concern is what Hamas intends for the Jews, not the Europeans, just as yours seems to be the opposite. Quite understandable, but if you will not look after mine, who will?”

    Perfectly understandable, but that doesn’t make Hamas Nazis. Any similarity is coincidental, rather than philosophical – to liken Islamic fundementalism with European fascism is pretty far-fetched.

    Yes, in their hatred of Jews they have borrowed from the Nazis – but that is pure opportunism. If what they wanted was available from Japan or Canada, they would have borrowed from there.

  16. @Akus
    “I think you are trying to point out they they wouldn’t conquer Europe (actually, that is yet another interesting discussion along the lines of Eurabia and I think you are missing the bigger picture).”
    Its not what Im saying .

  17. Irish
    You are mistaken if you think that I was writing about animals in Israel to answer questions about children in Gaza. This is what Gazagirl wrote about animals in a thread about human children.

    I’m no hero for defending Palestinians
    gazagirl’s comment 15 Jan 10, 3:41pm
    To Jubilation1

    Gazagirl I am sorry for you having to have Hamas as your government if you are not Hamas. Why do you show no compassion for the children in the Israeli towns and kibbutzim who also suffer from Hamas through no fault of their own?

    You are side stepping again. Shall we play a game of who shows compassion and who does not? From your first post on the subject of Gaza “behaving badly” I did not see one hint of sympathy from you for the innocent civilians in Gaza, at least a third who are killed children. Why are you now twisting around to accuse me instead of not showing compassion? Are you trying to aviod the discomfort of my words to you? I think this is so, and I ask you another time now.

    It seems that your IDF forces think everyone even the donkeys are Hamas terrorists. Why is this? How come they are so cruel to kill so many children? I have never fired a rocket at Israeli people, nor so have these children. Even the zoo animals were killed in the Gaza Zoo, excpting the lions which ran off to cower in fear. Are they terrorists too? Were the many thousands chickens killed by tanks also terrorists with missiles under their wings? Were the Hamas terrorists hiding inthe village water tanks which were destroyed? I don’t think so. You should ask why you IDF forces should do these cruel things to ordinary people. Yes please ask this to youreslf and your government. Do you have compassion for Palestinian children? Your IDF forces do not.

    Let me be clear to you being Israeli. I am not from Hamas and I do not wish that they to harm any Israeli civilians especially not to children. I love all children of this world. Do you understand this?

    You also have not answerd why you refuse to watch the Defamation film being discussed here. Are you really interested in learning about this, or do you have a cloesed mind?

  18. Dopey, so you have read the Charter, have you? The full version of it?

    And yet you still dare to come here and say the things you do?

    I do not believe that I am “belittling” the horror perpetrated by the Nazis any more than CiF belittles it by allowing posts to remain which compare the IDF to Nazis.

    Leni/Irish’s post about the Gazans not being free to protest against Hamas underlines my point.

    akus – an interesting question as to whether Hamas if given the opportunity would not behave to Israeli Jews as the Nazis did. Let’s hope that we never find out.

  19. SarahLeah,

    “I do not believe that I am “belittling” the horror perpetrated by the Nazis any more than CiF belittles it by allowing posts to remain which compare the IDF to Nazis.”

    I don’t think that anyone accused you of belittling the horror perpetrated by the Nazis any more than CiF belittles it by allowing posts to remain which compare the IDF to Nazis – they accused you of belittling it.

    IDF/Nazi comparisons belittle the horror perpetrated by the Nazis.

    IDF/Hamas comparisons belittle the horror perpetrated by the Nazis.

    The Holocaust is widely regarded as holding a unique place in the history of man’s inhumanity to his fellow man. Any lazy comparison to the Nazis undermines that – after all, if the Nazis were just like the IDF or Hamas, then they can’t be held up as a unique expression of evil.

  20. CORRECTION

    “IDF/Hamas comparisons belittle the horror perpetrated by the Nazis.”

    That should read “Hamas/Nazi comparisons…”

  21. Israelfirst

    Thanks for reply – it underlines the problems created by publishing single comments out of context ‘ If I misunderstood you then I apologise.

    I don’t have time to read all the threads on Cif referred to here – i respond to info and analysis as posted here. Out of context , single comments posted in isolation can lead to misunderstanding and present a one sided, sometimes false, picture

    I exclude from this comment the obviously indefensible ‘shoot the settlers’ type of comment made, in that instance by William Bapthorpe.

    Leni

  22. Akus in your Arabic lesson for the bigots brigade you can suggest that once they have accustomed themselves to hearing the word Yahud they can progress to the next stage where they will hear the words ‘Itbakh al Yahud’ which simply means kill the Jew. It’s a useful lesson to give them to lbecause it is both a common little phrase and an indicator of mood.

  23. Irish now that you have both comments here in front of you, mine and hers, which do you think deserved to be deleted?

  24. THH – really? How do you know? Have you been among them when they have demonstrated? Been to Gaza?

    Do tell!!

  25. Dopey instead of regurgitating all your old arguments from the other place, and the one about the alleged “new” Hamas Charter is one example of the rot you talked there and are still talking here, why not publish a link to this new charter if it exists?

    That you have not, and Hamas insists on behaving according to the charter which doesexist, suggests that you are fantasising about any new one.

    Remember when you wrongly accused AKUS of posting unreferenced rubbish here?

    Give us a reference or shut up!

  26. @Margie
    Its hard to me to make the words from the video but even if they say Itbach al Israel , its still not Itbach al yahood isn’t it .

  27. THH
    If you want to quibble then go ahead.

    I definitely heard Yahud more than once but the rest was blurred. The German title says slaughter the Jews, I presume they heard that. I took the first video that came to hand. There are thousands of such videos of demonstrations of hatred and violence, setting bad examples – did you see the children there?

  28. @Margie
    I’d come not to believe to video’s titles .
    I know that there is a lot of hatred but its towards Israelis and not Jews .

  29. Israelfirst

    “Irish now that you have both comments here in front of you, mine and hers, which do you think deserved to be deleted?”

    Are you implying that gazagirl’s comment should have been deleted, and if so, then why?

    “You are side stepping again. Shall we play a game of who shows compassion and who does not? From your first post on the subject of Gaza “behaving badly” I did not see one hint of sympathy from you for the innocent civilians in Gaza, at least a third who are killed children. Why are you now twisting around to accuse me instead of not showing compassion? Are you trying to aviod the discomfort of my words to you? I think this is so, and I ask you another time now.

    It seems that your IDF forces think everyone even the donkeys are Hamas terrorists. Why is this? How come they are so cruel to kill so many children? I have never fired a rocket at Israeli people, nor so have these children. Even the zoo animals were killed in the Gaza Zoo, excpting the lions which ran off to cower in fear. Are they terrorists too? Were the many thousands chickens killed by tanks also terrorists with missiles under their wings? Were the Hamas terrorists hiding inthe village water tanks which were destroyed? I don’t think so. You should ask why you IDF forces should do these cruel things to ordinary people. Yes please ask this to youreslf and your government. Do you have compassion for Palestinian children? Your IDF forces do not.

    Let me be clear to you being Israeli. I am not from Hamas and I do not wish that they to harm any Israeli civilians especially not to children. I love all children of this world. Do you understand this?”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/15/yoav-shamir-film-palestinians?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:15411e2e-fcb2-45c0-982a-49c1294ef27a

  30. THH knows there’s a lot of hatred towards Israelis not of Jews…..hmmm are we to think the targets of this are Israeli Arabs who make up 20% of the population???

    The sophistry you display is the stock in trade of the guardenistas.

    Now I’m not surprised at all that THH et al will offer up such inanities over there, after all the clientele is there for it and the Guardian offers them full protection, but to think that there is anybody here who doesn’t see right through this???

    The guardian has succeeded in inflating the egos of these small-minded people and has taught them that sophistry is debate.

  31. THH, some time ago on British television (I think it was on Channel 4) there was a programme which looked at Hamas’ rule in Gaza.

    We saw the schools that Hamas ran which taught Jew-hatred routinely. We also saw Hamas “police” thugs at work, strutting around and bullying people. One scene which sticks in my mind, was their trying to bully an grandma who could have eaten them for breakfast as a first course. Among the things she yelled at them was, “You are worse than the Jews” (note, she did not say “Israelis”).

    Now, how are intelligent people meant to construe that automatic conflation in this person’s mind of “Israeli” and “Jew?” It’s very typical widespread throughout the Middle East, which is why I am inclined to believe Margie about what she heard.

    The effect of this on the Hamas bullies was quite remarkable – they slunk away.

  32. Mitnaged

    Yes, I remember watching that particularly insightful documentary, and it did indeed show Hamas “police” thugs at work, strutting around and bullying people. I was struck by one particular macho arsehole (who was later sacked on the orders of the more sane faction of the political leadership!) beating ordinary Gazans going about their Friday worship. I didn’t remember seeing the “grandma” mentioned, but I have just watched it again after sourcing it on the web, and there is indeed a gutsy woman in her thirties telling the thugs where to go.

    To see both these incidents go to 32 minutes in:

    http://radicalfilms.co.uk/2009/02/15/inside-hamas-uk-channel-4-documentary/

    Of course your average Gazan is gonna refer to Israelis as “the Jews” — just as many Israelis refer to Palestinians as “the Arabs”. And hatred of Israeli Jews by the Palestinians isn’t something in their DNA — it’s not as if it was created in a vacuum, now is it? Israel obviously bares some, if not the greater share of responsibility for this hatred.

    Shalom / Salaam

  33. Germolene

    .

    “You kept trying to sell that nonsense about a new Hamas charter on cif, You could never produce it ”

    It doesnt exist yet. Once they dig the dirt and broken concrete out of their offices it will. You make it sound like this is the result of debating wisely rather than guys in reinforced basements scuttling about trying to avoid the accurate and “up for it” IDF.

    ” I respectfully suggest to my honourable friend that we delay the vote until the electricity comes back on! ” 🙂

  34. I don’t know what they teach you in England
    But in Israel the things are simpler .
    and I as Israeli prefer that people wont blow things out of proportion , as this conflict as been blown to the size of a world war , which is not .

  35. OMG, our poor lil troll has chosen to respond to to a question…..he’s about to enlighten the world with regard to some new hamas charter that only he knows about.

    hmmm, maybe not….now in his infinite wisdom he reports that it doesn’t exist yet, once they dig the dirt and broken concrete out of their offices it will.
    Oh dear, what will Meshal say in the comforts of his digs in Damascus.

    man, this guy’s a na’ar even for a troll.

  36. dopey, give it up! You sound even more stupid that you are!

    They think less of their people and their power than they do about saving face and they dare not give up their charter because to do so would be to admit that they were wrong to adopt it.

  37. Peter1

    “some new hamas charter that only he knows about. ”

    I got the idea when I heard one of your boys calling the original one ” H Charter 88 ” and I knew this was to differentiate it from some patched up anti-Semitic-free charter. Watch this space.

    My point about the office being wrecked is that you guys sneer at their public image… yet if one had to write ones dissertation ( or in your case entry exam to the primary school) in a wrecked office what would it look like? 🙂

    Yohoho

    “They think less of their people and their power than they do about saving face ”

    This is a varyation on the theme” They hate us more than they love their children ” ..you are typifying them as “not as human as I ” and you ..sir .. are a discriminating automaton. Hope that helped…it was fun for me! 🙂

  38. The troll is amusing himself clapping down on the keyboard in the hope that something sensible will come out.

    Alas, another vain attempt, however….it appears to be fun for him.