Guardian

“Envy is the ulcer of the soul” – Source unknown


In spite of the rubbish peddled recently on CiF as evidence of the folie-a-deux between Georgina Henry and Matt Seaton about the community policy it seems that our old mucker, Seth Freedman is still afforded special status there.  Status, that is, to make as much of a fool of himself as he always has.

Regular readers of CiF and CiFWatch scarcely need to be reminded that Freedman is a very confused person.  He vacillates between his own form of sympathy for his adopted country and misguided condemnation of it.  In his recent offering, for example, having rooted for the Bil’in and Nil’in protesters in the past, stones and all so to speak, we now see him supporting the non-violent action of Sheikh Jarrah protesters:

The path of violent protest in Bil’in and Nil’in has proved to be a cul-de-sac, with ever-harsher measures taken by the army response and ever-increasing scepticism from those on the Israeli street. In the hiatus resulting from the army’s announced closures in the villages, protest organisers would do well to consider how they proceed when the restrictions are lifted – and taking a leaf out of the Sheikh Jarrah protesters’ book is no bad place to start…..

Now this shows some insight on Freedman’s part, but I am not going to hold my breath that it will last.   Non-violent protest is to be preferred to the sort of violence which usually obtains on the West Bank, stoked by the ISM and its hangers on.  However, not surprisingly, Freedman’s detractors below the line, whose sympathies lie with more with the bare-knuckle approach of the ISM, are not at all impressed by this new, peaceable (for the moment anyway) Freedman.   One of these, boblondon, got into a protracted exchange with Freedman, (both Freedman’s and his posts were subsequently deleted, but not before we got hold of it).  Unfortunately we couldn’t get one of the comments but the following should give readers a flavour.  My comments are in the text:

boblondon

18 Mar 2010, 10:57AM

@Te1ecaster

where exactly do I tell the Palestinians how to fight their own struggle? To which quote are you refering exactly?

I think you dont know much about the history of Palestine, the first intifada (1986 – 1993) is widely viewed as a success of sorts, it foreced Israel into some, limited concessions in the form of Oslo, and was an unarmed uprising, so I dont know what you are on about when you talk of “deliberate murder of women and children”.

Plus by the way I have spent 7 months in Palestine and have been shot at by Israeli snipers breaking curfew to bring supplies and medicine to locals trapped in their homes during 4 day long invasions of Nablus. Seth lives in West Jerusalem and stands at the back of demonstrations well out the way of any tear gas or rubber bullets, I know this as ive met him!

Let us not forget that Freedman cannot bear to let an insult pass.   Boblondon (who seems far too proud to be healthy that he has been shot at by Israeli snipers, or so he says) is implying that Freedman “… stood at the back of demonstrations well out the way of any tear gas or rubber bullets….”, ie that Freedman lacked the courage of what he said were his convictions.   So Freedman has to reply:

sethfreedman

18 Mar 2010, 11:26AM

Contributor

boblondon – ” Seth lives in West Jerusalem and stands at the back of demonstrations well out the way of any tear gas or rubber bullets, I know this as ive met him!”

i live in jaffa

(Well, Freedman used to live in Jerusalem.  Boblondon doesn’t say when these demonstrations took place.  They could have met.  Then Freedman goes on to try to rubbish boblondon’s contribution to the ISM’s bareknuckle fight.  Note the “I tried it once and didn’t like it” play and the attempt at sarcasm at the end):

more importantly, are you seriously suggesting you’re more qualified to speak just because you ‘brave’ the teargas and rubber bullets by acting as a shield for the stonethrowers at the front of the crowd? do you see yourself as somehow more heroic and courageous for standing in the line of fire? i did it once, and never again – why on earth would i want to provide cover for those attacking the army (or the other way round, should such a situation arise)? but kudos to you for getting shot at – that story must go down a storm at soirees and dinner parties.

And now we come to the “I’m braver than you are..” bit, where the usual, to be expected adolescent braggadocio is displayed – see “… I have arguably exposed myself to greater personal danger during my time in Palestine than you. …” from boblondon below.  Note that he doesn’t go to the West Bank for “bragging rights” though.   I am glad he made that clear….

boblondon

18 Mar 2010, 11:40AM

@seth

are you seriously suggesting you’re more qualified to speak just because you ‘brave’ the teargas and rubber bullets by acting as a shield for the stonethrowers at the front of the crowd?

No not at all, I made those comments in response to a personal attack from Te1ecaster where it was suggested I was some sort of armchair general, and your bravery was praised, I thought it fair to point out that I have arguably exposed myself to greater personal danger during my time in Palestine than you.

I wouldnt say what Ive done is particularky (sic) heroic, but anyone working in the occupied territories has to show a level of courage. Actually I dont really tell that story very often; I dont go to Palestine for personal gain, bragging rights, cif columns or book deals – how about you?

boblondon

18 Mar 2010, 12:12PM

@seth

then i can finally throw in the towel and move back to enfield to dine out on my near misses with the rest of the ism special forces vets.

well you would have to join first to become a vet, but if I remember rightly when you requested to join up with us you were denied as you were still a reservist soldier, which was the beggining  (sic) of your animosity towards us.

Well, if you think that Freedman would let boblondon get away with that, you have another think coming.    Note the “you’re making it up” below, a sure sign that Freedman is displeased and, when Freedman is displeased ’tis but a short step from there to accusing anyone who criticises him of lying.   Note also, the careful wording of :

“… i asked to be allowed to spend time working with ism and see the work they did as part of my post-army education – and subsequently i was allowed to do just that on several occasions (they’re well-documented, i’ve written about them all) – so when it comes to my reasons for despising ism you’re way wide of the mark – as in, you’re making it up….”

sethfreedman

18 Mar 2010, 12:19PM

Contributor

boblondon – “well you would have to join first to become a vet, but if I remember rightly when you requested to join up with us you were denied as you were still a reservist soldier, which was the beggining  (sic) of your animosity towards us”

i. i was never a reservist soldier, not even close. as in, you’re making it up

ii. i asked to be allowed to spend time working with ism and see the work they did as part of my post-army education – and subsequently i was allowed to do just that on several occasions (they’re well-documented, i’ve written about them all) – so when it comes to my reasons for despising ism you’re way wide of the mark – as in, you’re making it up

iii. i have no idea who you are (despite you excitedly claiming to have met me) – that said, i have animosity towards the ism as a whole, not towards individuals – so when you say ‘your animosity towards us’, you’re implying i have a personal problem with you. i don’t, since i neither know nor care who you are. as in, you’re making it up

This stupidity persists until the Community Mod’s intervention:

CommunityMod

18 Mar 2010, 12:46PM

Staff

Would contributors please endeavour to remain on topic and avoid extended personal disagreements.

What then, caused the rift between the ISM and Freedman, who wanted to join them as part of his “post-army education” (but more likely as a way for him to “write” about the experience and make money from it)?  Some clues can be found in the drubbing he got here and here.

In the Heathlander blog (at the first link), Freedman is roundly abused by one David Wearing (of CiF anti-Israel fame?) who accuses him of being some sort of double agent who supports Israeli atrocities:

“…. Freedman works very well as ‘hasbara’ propaganda. Israel can probably live with his criticism of the settlers provided that, when it really matters, he deploys the credibility built up over several critical articles to join the supporting chorus for Israeli atrocities. Support for mass murder from purported humanitarians carries far more weight than that from the usual Zionist suspects. If he didn’t exist then the Israeli Public Affairs dept, if they were smart, would invent someone like him….

It’s downhill all the way after that on the Heathlander blog, as the egregious Tony Greenstein and Mark Elf line up to put the boot in too.

The article at the second link, the rebuttal statement to Freedman’s article (or rather “tirade”) about Bil’in on 20th January 2010  by ISM London, got no hits at all however.  Pete Jones, the ISM activist who authored the rebuttal (and who is therefore probably a “very important person”) tells us that he actually lived in Bil’in “for almost two months.” (!!)  The rebuttal has all the buzz words, too, such as referring to stone-throwing youth as being involved in Bil’in’s “struggle as well as references to the distorted reality so beloved of Islamist sympathisers as follows:

“…in fact the Palestinians’ own long tradition of non-violent resistance has a lot to teach us all, from the protests and strikes against the British occupation in the 1930s onwards….” (Why no mention of the Hebron massacre?   Perhaps it wasn’t non-violent enough for them).

Freedman’s criticism of the ISM and his support of peaceful protest may be evidence either of a real change of heart (but as I have said above, I shall not hold my breath for that to happen) or of the sort of pernicious envy which wants to strike out at others because they are perceived to have denied one respect or what are believed to be one’s rights.   My money would be on the last two.  Freedman is still smarting that the ISM turned him down.



24 replies »

  1. This has caught my eye,from BobLOndon’s post,”I have been shot at by Israeli snipers”

    If he was shot at by Israeli snipers,he wouldn’t be living to tell the tale.

    Israeli snipers don’t miss,that is the very reason that they are chosen to be snipers.

  2. Relevant or not,it seems that the CEO of the Guardian Carolyn McCall has jumped ship.

    Are the rats on the M/V Guardian abandoning the sinking Guardian ship.

  3. Seth Freedman has done his dash,he knows jack-shit about Israel.

    He copies and pastes articles from Haaretz (the Guardian’s clone)and posts them in the Guardian,

    I don’t even bother to read his posts,let alone reply to them,those that post on his threads are as dull as him.They reserve each other.

    If there is one thing that Seth Freedman will or should have learned from all this is that no one likes finks,they sure as hell will use him,and sure as hell ditch him.

  4. AB

    Relevant or not,it seems that the CEO of the Guardian Carolyn McCall has jumped ship. Are the rats on the M/V Guardian abandoning the sinking Guardian ship.

    That’s interesting.

    Do you have any links?

  5. Haaretz has an article “Is the British press hostile towards Israel” that you might want to have a look at.And perhaps even respond to.

    The Guardian’s Anti-Semitic line is being mentioned,and so is Matt Seaton.

  6. I read the ‘interview’ in HaAretz.

    HaAretz is trying to make Seaton and The Guardian come up looking like roses. He may not be Porgina but he worked under her for two years and the antisemitism and Israel hating was rife and dominant.

    Things may change but as long a Berchmans and other rank antisemites and Israel haters have some kind of special status, it is just a sham. He has had more comments deleted than any other commenter. Probably due to his ‘longevity’.

    I don’t know why this site tolerates Berchmans either. He certainly does not add to intelligent debate in any way.

  7. I don’t know why this site tolerates Berchmans either. He certainly does not add to intelligent debate in any way.

    I agree.

  8. That Haaretz would make The Guardian come up looking like roses, should be of no surprise,they are both birds of a feather.

    Haaretz has quite a few Berchmans of it’s own.One that comes to mind is this crone called,Chanalua Tova among others.

    There will always be Berchmans everywhere,you don’ have to tolerate him,just ignore him.

  9. We see the level of Seth’s intellect displayed in all its gory glory. He must be so proud

  10. Toko LeMoko

    ((I don’t know why this site tolerates Berchmans either. He certainly does not add to intelligent debate in any way.))

    ” I agree. ”

    At least you know where I am ( keep your friends close …and your enemies etc etc 🙂 ) Sometimes I wonder myself why I am tolerated and I find it confusing. The mods here seem to be able to take a punch better than the ones at CIF.

  11. “The mods here seem to be able to take a punch better than the ones at CIF.”

    And that should give you pause, for it indicates that although obtuseness irritates, the mods here have the advantage of defending the moral high ground and the truth. They will listen to lies whereas Cif will not listen to truth. It is always more difficult to defend the lie for it has truth just before it to expose it at any moment and demands effort to stifle it.

  12. Epidermoid

    ” the mods here have the advantage of defending the moral high ground and the truth. ”

    Israels position is crumbling.. as evidenced by today’s deliberately provocative and deadly raid and soon the mods here will be tested . Tensions will run high as positions become more entrenched. However, at present , I tip my hat to them.

  13. @Abandon hope

    as evidenced by today’s deliberately provocative and deadly raid

    Are you playing stupid or just are stupid ?

  14. THH to Berk: Are you playing stupid or just are stupid ?

    Neither. He works very hard at it (except for the occasional liquid lunch).

  15. ‘Are you playing stupid or just are stupid ?’

    Actually, that latest swipe by Berchmans is more like plain old nasty. Two Israeli soldiers killed trying to stop terrorists planting bombs on the border fence (by their own admission) and all he can muster is a tasteless and totally unjustified attack on the people on the receiving end of terrorism.
    Berchmans: the walking, talking embodiment of moral relativism.

  16. Abandon Hope

    “Israel’s position is crumbling.. as evidenced by today’s deliberately provocative and deadly raid”

    You can get away with that sort of lie on CIF, but this is not CIF. Here we can expose your lies without fear our comments will be deleted.

    So here’s the thing. The Palis tried to plant explosives near the Security Fence, and killed two Israelis. Now Israel is taking the fight to them. It’s called defending your country and the lives of your citizens. Got a problem with that?

  17. Israelinurse

    moral relativism

    I believe you are right. According to the BBC news at 4 the Israelis were being attacked and if so the terrorists deserved no mercy and probably expected none. Israel could have chosen not to pursue them ..but chose instead to continue the tit for tat murders that have been the hallmark of the stand off for years.

    I spoke too soon and I apologise. I just remembered the last raid at Nov 4th 08.. the purpose of which could only have been to scupper the cease fire and give a political boost to the govt at the time . I did not give the IDF the benefit of the doubt,Whilst this is a mistake you can see why it happened.

  18. Berchmans – that moniker of yours is so fitting. Just when I think there might be hope for you, I have to abandon the thought.

    On November 4th 2008 a group of terrorists were caught digging a tunnel under the border with the intention of kidnapping more Israeli soldiers. This was precisely the same method used to kidnap Gilad Shalit. Are you really suggesting that any nation should stand by and blithely ignore attempts by foreign elements to abduct its citizens from their own soil? (Think before you answer – please).

    And no, Israel could not have chosen not to pursue them because what you fail to understand is that the Christian luxury of ‘turning the other cheek’ does not work in the Middle East. It is perceived as a sign of weakness and only brings about more violence.
    If and when you Brits finally understand that, your own campaigns both in the region itself and against terror on a domestic and worldwide scale may finally become more effective.

  19. Turning the other cheek Israeli Nurse, invites a slap on the other cheek in the Middle East.

    This was illustrated painfully for Israel when it gave the whole territory of the Gaza Strip to the PA – without payment and without receiving any thanks.

    It is obvious that the Palestinians had not in any way conquered Israel but this is how they announced it. From then on the strip has been used only to attack Israel.

    The citizens there are cannon fodder, used as human shields and for the purpose of showing themselves as victims of Israel. The bountiful grants given them by the UN EU US and others (Iran for instance) have been used to purchase arms to attack Israel and not to benefit their citizenry. No industry has been established despite offers. The once-beautiful beach is neglected and dirty, I have heard..

    You need to know who you are dealing with.

  20. Israelinurse

    “On November 4th 2008 a group of terrorists were caught digging a tunnel under the border with the intention of kidnapping more Israeli soldiers. ”

    If you look at the date you may recognise it. I believe the unwritten plan was to have the ceasefire fail at the start of Obama’s presidency …get the agenda sorted right from the start. A country that can send a travelling circus thousands of miles to kill someone can do such unethical thiungs.

    I believe it was your good self ( or maybe Margie ) who argued the Biden snub was similarly coincidental..the construction of the settlements just happened to be announced at the start of the most crucial peace talks for years???

    It is good that people love their country but a tiny bit of scepticism would not go amiss.

  21. ”A country…” no need to mention which country is unethical according to the sickening scot who peddles lies with every posting and champions those who push their opponents off the roof of high-rises and place children in the path of bombs.

    My congratulations to Hawkeye for having the patience to endure the little man. In your place I’d have packed him up and posted him back to porgina long since.

  22. Hell, Berchmans – you really are hard work. It was the Palestinians digging the tunnel, and it wasn’t the first time either. Yet even after this incident, the Israeli action against it and the subsequent escalation in rocket fire upon Israeli civilians, Israel still asked Hamas to extend the ceasefire beyond its December deadline. It was Hamas who refused to do so, despite Egyptian advice to the contrary.