Guardian

A Tale of Moderators and Moderates


A funny thing happened on CiF recently when Ghassan Khatib – a member of the Palestinian People’s Party – wrote a reply to an article published a few days previously by the Canadian-Jewish journalist Jesse Rosenfeld. At first glance, Khatib appeared to be presenting a more moderate stance than that of Rosenfeld with regard to the Palestinian approach to bringing an end to almost a century of conflict and veteran CiF watchers will not be surprised by the fact that this did not go down well with some of the CiF regulars. Poster Abtalyon put it in a nutshell, but his/her post was for some reason deleted by the moderators.

Abtalyon

25 Feb 2010, 2:20PM

Ahalan, Ghassan Khatib:

Welcome to CiF which occasionally serves the London Branch of the Hamas Supporters Club.

So different from your gentlemanly discussions with Yossi Alpher at Bitter Lemons, eh?

I bet you didn’t think that you would be attacked and accused of being a quisling and a betrayer of Palestinian rights by those who consider themselves the elite supporters of a Palestinian State.

Well, now you know that from a lot of comments here, not every so-called “peace activist” actually wants peace.

To what was Abtalyon referring? Well there was this:

binthereandbackmate

25 Feb 2010, 1:00PM

In his CiF article the other day, Jesse Rosenfeld wrote:

Israeli invasions of PA territory have increased since the summer, hitting Ramallah regularly for the past few months to arrest popular struggle leaders and international solidarity activists, and raiding the offices of grassroots anti-occupation movements. While usually it is impossible to go more than two blocks in the West Bank Palestinian political centre without seeing armed PA forces, when the Israelis come into town, they are ordered back to their barracks and are nowhere to be seen. I witnessed this countless times while living in Ramallah.

And these kind of disgusting, deliberately humiliating incursions into Palestinian areas by the Israeli Occupation Forces have been going on (with the explicit collusion of the PA) for a number of years now. That’s not to mention the innumerable extra-judicial executions of Palestinians by the Israeli forces that have also taken place.

Is this acceptable to you? Does this aid Palestinian statehood? I’m sorry, Ghassan Khatib — but (to put it as diplomatically as I am able) the phrase ‘Uncle Tom’ springs to mind.

The historical revisionists who abound at CiF got their two pence worth in too:

petrifiedprozac

25 Feb 2010, 11:22AM

Palestinians are the only people who have to guarantee the security of their oppressor.

Jubilation1 It’s a shame that you haven’t accepted one of the many peace offers made to you i the past if you are suddenly realising that what Israel has been saying for decades is the only solution to the problem. What a waste of sixty years of development of your state.

When has Israel made a serious peace offer? They have continued to steal and loot Palestiona property and land and it seems they have no intention they will stop until they have created greater Israel.

By the way, Israel owes my ex-wife two residential homes, one business and quite a few acres of land Israelis have stolen from her family. Like Jews that have been robbed, she too would like her property back.

theyislying

25 Feb 2010, 11:47AM

The author ignores the fact that Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas, who are constitutionally opposed to any negotiation or peaceful settlement. This, as much as Israel’s continued beligerence to all, is an insurmountable obstacle to a resolution to the I/P problem.

but hamas is willing to negotiate a peace, as the saudi plan clearly indicates. one should not get too hung up on historical constitutions.

wheel chair bound sheik yassin was prepared in the first instance to negotiate a ten – twenty year peace without giving israel the recognition it so desperately needs. so hamas is willing to walk towards a settlement even if israel is not. this has been an offer that has existed even until today .

the problem today is that israel is led by a populist nationalsitic, fundamentalist religious ideology that is driving policy of expansion and denial to the palestinians.

Papalagi

25 Feb 2010, 11:58AM

OZKT29B wrote:

The author ignores the fact that Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas, who are constitutionally opposed to any negotiation or peaceful settlement. This, as much as Israel’s continued beligerence to all, is an insurmountable obstacle to a resolution to the I/P problem.

Another lie. Hamas proposed a cease fire for a long time which Israel didn’t accept. Israel only accepted a cease fire when they started planing the assault against Gaza in order to have a pretext.

Contratry to what OZ writes, it’s the Israeli who elected political parties which are not interested in peace and which opose any solution that doesn’t reflect Israel’s readiness to use violence against the Palestinians. Israel’s government is constitutionally opposed to any negotiation or peace.

Papalagi

25 Feb 2010, 12:05PM

Having established themselves on the foundation of obliterating the Palestinian society, they, the Israeli governments, cannot be the ones to now negotiate peace.

bass46

25 Feb 2010, 12:58PM

Quincey1966

Bass46 – “… Israel killed 1400 civilians…” So, in the IDF operation in Gaza the IDF succeeded in killing no Hamas terrorists???

The IDF weren’t differentiating.

Definition of “terrorist”

Anyone shot by an IDF bullet.

bass46

25 Feb 2010, 1:07PM

B37elGeuse

It is a democracy, but democracy can work only when the people are well educated and not religiously fanatical, and people who vote for Hamas are not.

The settlement movement have no influence in Israel then? They are as big a bunch of religious nuts as you’ll find.

The Palestinians have one of the most progressive attitudes to education in the middle east but the very first thing Israel blows up are it’s schools.

Religious fanatics are on both sides, not one. This is just another excuse to do nothing and keep taking land.

The one-staters were there too:

FalseConsciousness

25 Feb 2010, 11:29AM

I agree that Palestinians must avoid resorting to terrorism at any cost. The use of terrorism only invites a grossly disproportionate response and further hardens the hearts of Israelis. Palestinians should do all they can to win over at least some Israelis. Without the support of average Israelis the Palestinians will continue to suffer. I also disagree with the author’s support for the inconceivable “two-state solution”. Palestinians and Israelis should share all the land like and live side by side as equals.

Zagrebista

25 Feb 2010, 11:47AM

I agree that Palestinians must avoid resorting to terrorism at any cost. The use of terrorism only invites a grossly disproportionate response and further hardens the hearts of Israelis. Palestinians should do all they can to win over at least some Israelis. Without the support of average Israelis the Palestinians will continue to suffer. I also disagree with the author’s support for the inconceivable “two-state solution”. Palestinians and Israelis should share all the land like and live side by side as equals.

Ultimately, I agree with you on this. However, I see the two-state solution as being a stepping-stone to the ultimate goal of a secular, federal, multi-racial and multi-faith state in the region. With the present level of distrust between Israeli jews and Palestinian arabs I don’t think such a situation is currently possible. The main priorities right now should be ensuring a separate Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza and re-assuring Israel that such a state is not a threat to her. The ultimate goal of breaking down sectarianism and racism in the Middle East is a long-term one and highly unlikely until several generations have passed.

petrifiedprozac

25 Feb 2010, 12:48PM

osekar the more peaceful Palestinians are the more they will be used as a door mat of Israel. the only way they can get nationhood is to fight for it

Peace would be the better option if they were given the choice but we all know, if the Palestinians don’t resist they will be completely dispossessed.

Actually, Palestinians ought to demand Israeli citizenship of the occupied lands and put Israel in a dilemma. Israel wanted Palestinian land for a greater Israel but they don’t want the Palestinians, hence the slowburn ethnic cleansing. If Palestinians demand Israeli citizenship and full rights, that will give Israel a headache because Israel doesn’t want another 4 million muslim and christian citizens on top of the million or so they have now. Israel’s real problem is how to get rid of 4 million people, those 4 million should make it clear they are staying and going nowhere else. The Palestinians could end up making 40% of the population, that will give them power.

Then we had a supporter of a convicted terrorist and the resident down-player of terrorism against Israelis:

JRuskin

25 Feb 2010, 12:01PM

Mustafa and Marwan Baghouti have different approaches to the problem of the colonisation of Palestine.

But both offer a more convincing programme of resistance than Abbas and co. And both will integrate Hamas; this is essential.

JRuskin

25 Feb 2010, 12:11PM

Israel is not South Africa, even if its racism is similar.

Peaceful protest (and this includes protests by Israelis at Sheikh Jarrah) has been made unlawful. Cameramen are killed, journalists imprisoned.Even a celebrated cartographer has been given a banning order in case he publicises the annexations.

Although Mandela eventually broke through the Boer oppression; it’s hard to see Israel allowing any moderate who refuses to accept the colonisation being given freedom.

And Marwan remains in his Israel Robben Island.

Berchmans

25 Feb 2010, 5:24PM

MadisonWest

## removing Israel from existence. ..undoing Israel’s existence .. undoing Israel’s existence in the process massacring Israel off earth ..##

No wonder Finkelstein calls it the Holocaust industry when one of the most powerful countries in the world is threatened by a few guys with beards and rifles and Israel’s existence is called into question ( repeatedly ) This is a disgusting misuse of the victims of the Nazis and you have done this before.

Why cant we let them rest in peace rather than using them every time some guy gets bumped off by a travelling circus of concerned Europeans! 🙂

B

And of course there are those who can’t actually construct a valid argument, so they just toss around accusations about the misuse of objections to anti-Semitism.

nobodyisinnocent

25 Feb 2010, 11:52AM

Palestine’s strongest weapon is peace.

Israel’s strongest weapon is the blame of anti-semitism of anyone questioning the jet-fighters and the napalm and so on.

magpiedpiper

25 Feb 2010, 1:20PM

Israel’s strongest weapon is Plutonium,

next are F 16, Apache, Heckler & Hoch,

White Phosphorous in no particlar order.

So it’s Peace versus US backed military conscripts?

Another story going nowhere, the Palestinians have no voice

that can be heard above the cries of anti-semitism.

grahamew

25 Feb 2010, 1:58PM

MindtheCarp

Whats the point? We know yours…and we know that stating anything else is clearly anti-semitic.

But in the spirit and all that…Step 1 could be halting the ‘settlements’ by ultra-fundamentalists and stopping the construction of the wall that solidifies the existence of the Palestinian ghetto.

It is interesting to see that just as so many of the CiF crowd are convinced that they know more about Israel than Israelis do, they also seem to think that they know more about what is good for the Palestinians than a Palestinian and that the ‘moderate’ face of Palestinian politics as presented by Khatib is rejected by so many.

As for the article itself, it was also interesting to note the points upon which Khatib agreed with the extremist Rosenfeld and where he voiced disagreement because these points illustrate exactly the problems which Israel is up against in its attempts to reach agreements with the Palestinian leadership which will put an end to the conflict. Ghassan wrote “We prefer peaceful resistance, which the government has been strongly advocating. The prime minister, Dr Salam Fayyad, has regularly joined the protesters against the Israeli wall.”

The reality is of course somewhat different; during Fayyad’s recent visit to Bil’in a section of the anti-terrorist fence was damaged by protestors. One would expect a statesman to express his objection to such criminal damage, particularly as his own security forces are not only incapable of preventing terror attacks on Israeli citizens, they are even on occasion actively participating in them. Fayyad’s attitude to a solution to the conflict was amply illustrated in his recent appearance at the Herzliya conference.

“This was not an extremist speech or one seeking conflict. Fayyad is probably the most moderate guy in the PA leadership. He was doing about the best he could. But that’s the point. He has no base of support, isn’t a member of Fatah, and doesn’t really represent Palestinian thinking. He is in office for one reason only: the Western donors demand it. Fayyad, and arguably the PA leadership as a whole, don’t want a new war with Israel. But Fatah will sponsor one if it thinks such a step is advantageous or needed to out-militant Hamas.

Equally, Fayyad couldn’t go any further than he did because he knows that his Fatah bosses, Palestinian constituents, and Hamas enemies would throw him out if he offered the slightest concession to Israel and demanded any less than everything they want.”

Khatib goes on to state that “Rosenfeld is right to point to the seriousness of Israeli violations in recent weeks. We welcome any effort to draw the world’s attention to the facts.” There are, however, facts which Khatib seems rather less interested in highlighting, such as the recent ‘explosive barrels’ attack on Israeli beaches, the continuing rocket attacks on Southern Israel and crossings into Gaza and the recent riots in the Old City of Jerusalem. Neither does Khatib seem willing to address the thorny subject of his government’s continued incitement and lauding of terror as illustrated by the fact that the Palestinians recently named a square in Ramallah after a terrorist who murdered 37 Israelis or the Palestinian PM’s official visit to the families of the terrorists who murdered an Israeli in a drive-by shooting.

Then there is the continuing problem of anti-Israeli incitement in Palestinian schools which Khatib claimed had stopped as far back as 2003 in an article he then wrote. The European Union Tax Payers’ Alliance seems to be of a different opinion however as it has produced a report entitled ‘Palestinian Hate Education since Annapolis’ and is investigating the use of EU funding for anti-Israeli and antisemitic text books. Incitement is also still a problem in PA mosques where as recently as a month ago a preacher in Khatib’s home town of Nablus (Schem) stated that “For the people who laid traps for the prophets of Allah – arrested them, killed them, and deceived them – it is a thousand times easier to lay traps for the followers of these prophets. Our mutual enmity with the Jews is a matter of faith more than an issue pertaining to occupation and land.”

The issue of putting an end to Palestinian incitement is of course one of the initial clauses of the Roadmap, but in another recent article elsewhere, Khatib complained only about Israel not fulfilling its obligations under the Roadmap; no mention of his own government’s failure to meet even the first clause of that agreement.

Khatib claims that “The world should judge Israel not by what it says but by what it does.” Wouldn’t it be helpful to see the world, the readers and editors of CiF and indeed Khatib himself applying the same standard of expectations to the Palestinian Authority? Maybe then we would see the emergence of some real moderates together with whom it would be possible to make progress.

Categories: Guardian

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34 replies »

  1. It is unclear whether Khatib is a true Palestinian “moderate,” if such exists at all. However, the reaction to Khatib’s article makes clear that a Palestinian “moderate” would not receive solid Guardianista support. Apparently, what Guardianistas want is not improvement for Palestinians’ daily lives; rather, they want Jewish blood.

    The Guardian actively discourages peace. It has blood on its hands.

  2. Israeli nurse

    This is a moderate and fair article…I admit my post wasnt great ..trying to be smart and maybe hurting people.

    Abtalyon

    “Welcome to CiF which occasionally serves the London Branch of the Hamas Supporters Club.”

    This was funny and should not have been deleted.It was not offensive..they are paranoid arent they?

    .

    Israeli nurse

    “The one-staters were there too: FalseConsciousness “Palestinians and Israelis should share all the land like and live side by side as equals ”

    “One stater ” is an unfortunate description.. although accurate and sounds like an insult. .False consciousness’s post was a call to non violence as well. Yet he is a “one stater” rather than a “pacifist.”

    Toko LeMoko

    ” what Guardianistas want is not improvement for Palestinians’ daily lives; rather, they want Jewish blood.”

    This type of comment should be on a CIFWatch watch site. If only Israeli supporters other than Prezelberg were to take exception as well …maybe the site could look less extreme.

  3. Berchmans – anyone who truly understands what a ‘one-state solution’ would be and bring realises that, leaving aside for a moment the issue of Jewish self-determination, a single state would be a recipe for more violence, not less.
    Do you really think that the results of all those years of incitement against Israelis and Jews would disappear overnight? It is that wicked (I have no other word) indoctrination of children which must be stopped before there can be any hope for true peace. Until then, the best we can hope for is separation and a cessation of hostilities.
    In the later half of the 70s (not so long after Yom Kippur) I travelled to Syria and Jordan using my British passport and had a look at things from the other side. Whilst there I was told stories about the Israelis which would make anyone’s hair stand on end. I, of course, knew that the reality was very different and it was all I could do to keep a straight face sometimes as my eager hosts told me about six foot tall Israelis (all of them!) surging over the Golan Heights to capture Syrian children and bite off their heads, but I understood then the pernicious power of decades of indocrination of ordinary – generally poor and under-educated – people by leaders with ulterior motives. As long as those Syrians were busy keeping one eye open for rampaging Israelis, they weren’t thinking about the fact that a bag of sugar was costing them a month’s wages.

  4. Abandon hope

    This type of comment should be on a CIFWatch watch site. If only Israeli supporters other than Prezelberg were to take exception as well …maybe the site could look less extreme.

    For you, anything to the right of you is extremist islamophobic fascism Berchmans.

  5. Israelinurse

    ” wicked (I have no other word) indoctrination of children which must be stopped before there can be any hope for true peace. ”

    Whilst this is absolutely correct.. if the Israelis were not killing them at such a rate…squeezing them so…( they allowed shoes in yesterday after 3 years) such indoctrination would fall on deaf ears.

    This bogeyman has F16s and is alleged to use WP. Yes ..it is propaganda and yes Hamas started the conflict etc etc. None the less the overreaction that has occasionally been the hallmark of Israel ever since I was a kid must be part of the equation.

    JerusalemMite

    “For you, anything to the right of you is extremist islamophobic fascism ”

    I think you overstretched. I think you meant “extremist islamofascism” but why use one qualifier which could make you sound reasonable ..when you can wind yourself up like an overwound alarm clock ?

  6. CiFWatch would have people believe that CiF demonizes Israel on a daily basis.
    So why dredge back over a month for material?

    That said: they should’ve left Abtalyon’s post standing. OK, he made no effort as such to address the actual article, but I’d still say his comments were relevant enough.

  7. Toko LeMoko

    It is unclear whether Khatib is a true Palestinian “moderate,” if such exists at all.

    More of Toko’s trademark bigotry, I see.

    what Guardianistas want is not improvement for Palestinians’ daily lives; rather, they want Jewish blood.

    I am aware of at least one instance of Hawkeye deleting a comment.

    This specimen would be worthy of the same treatment.

    Why does nobody else (except Berch) take issue with this scumbag?

  8. “CiFWatch would have people believe that CiF demonizes Israel on a daily basis.”

    Don’t they?

    I think given the volume of hatred and negative comments pouring out of CiF a one month’s backlog is understandable.

    CiFwatch could do with dozens of people to monitor CiF’s dodgy output, and still they’d miss some.

    If you search CiF for the occurrence of the word “Israel” then this is roughly what is returned:

    “2973 results …

    Date
    Yesterday (3)
    Last 7 days (15)
    Last 30 days (54)
    2010 (137)
    2009 (888)
    2008 (609)
    2007 (560)
    2006 (773)
    Show more…”

    If you do a search on the word “China” then this was returned:

    “3140 results
    …Date
    Yesterday (4)
    Last 7 days (17)
    Last 30 days (46)
    2010 (159)
    2009 (770)
    2008 (968)
    2007 (735)
    2006 (505)
    Show more…”

    That is a country with a population some 180 times the size of the Israelis, and China who’s landmass is some 460 times that of the Israelis.

    China, a country with one of the most appalling human right’s records in the world and a major player on the international stage yet the coverage between Israel and China is rather similar, which indicates the level of CiF’s obsessions.

  9. modernityblog

    China, a country with one of the most appalling human right’s records in the world and a major player on the international stage yet the coverage between Israel and China is rather similar, which indicates the level of CiF’s obsessions.

    I think that you meant to project something else.

    CiF is obsessed with Israel and the Palestinians.

    It has other obsessions too. It hates the United States of America, the great Soviet killer. It detests the free market system and will not allow posts that try to refute that human actions are the main responsibility for global warming even though there is plenty of evidence of serious variations in the Earth’s environment well before homo sapiens appeared.

    It presents opinions as news and supresses/moderates out facts which negate its opinions.

    In short. It is no longer a newspaper. It is a mind fuck.

    And an increasing number of (previous) subscribers are been noticing this.

    It’s not enough that Porgina has been ‘moved’. Rustbucket has to go too. He bears overall responsibility for the Guardians demise and, until now, has supported Porgina in her biased and bigoted misrepresentations and omissions. I nearly ‘conked’ reading Porgina’s letter to the Jewish Chronicle where she claimed that The Guardian was ‘Fair and Balanced’.

    What a hoot.

  10. Pretzel

    Why does nobody else (except Berch) take issue with this scumbag?

    If you continue to use such terms, I will ask CiFWatch to ban you.

  11. Toko LeMoko

    “If you continue to use such terms, I will ask CiFWatch to ban you.”

    I wish you would not. Prezelberg ( and believe me he has had many many goes at me) is a brave and original poster who takes a reassuringly moderate and helpful line on CIF and CIFWatch . I think if he left I would as well ..as all restraining voices would have gone.

    I dont think I would even like Prezelberg if I met him. All I know is people like him are a rarity…people who can straddle two worlds with a single stride.

  12. Jerusalemite, I was under the impression that Abandon was right-wing, with all that chauvinistic stuff about Scotland being the best thing since sliced bread – literacy rates, hospitality, love of foreigners. The antithesis of this utopia is of course Israel, but what do you expect with so many Jews in one place! It’s enough to deflect anyone’s attention from dealing with problems closer to home; bad diet, alcoholism, violent crime, bad housing, apartheid against immigrants (who end up throwing themselves out of the condemned Red Road tower blocks) etc. Having an obsession with the ‘evils’ of Zionism is much more satisfying – if you’re a Scottish nationalist.

  13. What makes Scotland so sick?
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/what-makes-scotland-so-sick-1.828614
    Scotland – particularly the west of the country – has long carried the reputation as the “sick man of Europe”, with high rates of heart disease, cancer and stroke. Once a thriving centre of shipbuilding and heavy engineering, the economic decline of the region and associated social deprivation is often cited as the reason for continuing poor health. Millions of pounds has been ploughed into campaigns and schemes to try and tackle disease and improve lifestyles, but with only limited effect.

    A new study, carried out by the Glasgow Centre for Population Health (GCPH) and NHS Health Scotland, examined for the first time how death rates in the west of Scotland compare with those in 20 other similar post-industrial regions across the UK and Europe. It found that, despite enjoying better education, greater employment and more wealth, life expectancy is improving more slowly in the Scottish area than anywhere else – and within a decade, it will be the lowest of all the regions studied.

    Death rates among young Scots men are rising due to violence, suicide, drugs and alcohol, a pattern that is not repeated elsewhere. And a higher rate of middle-aged women in the west of Scotland are dying because of cancer, heart attacks, stroke and liver disease.

    Many of the factors directly contributing to this ill-health – such as smoking, excess alcohol consumption, obesity and poor diet – are well known. But according to the researchers, the results have raised serious questions over the focus of efforts to improve the health of Scots. Report co-author Professor Phil Hanlon, of Glasgow University, said while deprivation was major factor, it was not the whole picture.

  14. The mental and disturbed,cartoons in the Guardian should give you an insight,into the Guardian’s mind set,

  15. Toko LeMoko

    If you continue to use such terms, I will ask CiFWatch to ban you.

    Go ahead and make yourself look an even bigger fool.

    p.s. While you’re there: will you be requesting action be taken against the bigoted maniac poster who referred to me and others as “piggish goyim”?

  16. mental

    “What makes Scotland so sick?……is it Berchmans?

    Nah – it’s them deep-fried Mars bars. The Scots make the English look like pioneers of healthy cuisine.

    And don’t forget that a certain Mr. Gibson rewarded them with a blockbusting cinematic eulogy …

  17. Abandon hope

    I think if he left I would as well …

    Perhaps other posters here would consider me opening my veins in Ancient Rome style the honorable thing to do. And quite frankly I’m sorely tempted to make the sacrifice.

    Of course I’d imagine myself as the CiFWatch equivalent of Seneca – but we all have our delusions of grandeur, do we not … ?

    But the madness continued after Seneca’s demise, after all.
    (oops, there I go again)

  18. The deletion of my post merely confirmed that

    1. CiF moderators have no sense of humour.

    2. A Palestinian, in this instance Ghassan Khatib, advocates a negotiated settlement and is vilified for his pains. Similar treatment will be meted out to all who agree with his approach.

    3. Most of the staunchest armchair supporters of the Palestinians on CiF object to negotiations and favour “the resistance” i.e. violent confrontation in all its forms and Palestinian and other spokespersons who preach this line.

  19. Pretz

    Stick to what you are good at – nitpicking instead of ad hominem – and before you become all high and mighty about how you were insulted in the past (justifiably), I recall that you never apologized to Israelinurse. Correct me if I’m wrong.

  20. Pretzel

    will you be requesting action be taken against the bigoted maniac poster who referred to me and others as “piggish goyim”?

    Hmmm. Exactly the Yiddish phrase applied to inquisitors, brownshirts, pogromists (demagogic, journalistic or otherwise) … You’re in good company.

    In fact, the Guardian has blood on its hands twice over
    – it is encouraging and prolonging the Mideast conflict (including terrorist activity)
    – it is providing a platform for inflaming anti-Semitic passion in the UK, rendering it morally complicit in violence against UK Jews and their resultant second-class status, even flight.

    By the way, Pretzel, if the shoe fits …..

  21. ‘resultant second class status’

    what on earth are you talking about?! Care to back that up in any way?!

  22. Toko LeMoko

    “, the Guardian has blood on its hands ..encouraging and prolonging the Mideast conflict ”

    Do you know 2 weeks ago the Guardian reported that Israel announced settlement construction just as the US vice president was about to embark on peace negotiations. Why did the Guardian do this ??? Are there no flower arranging contests to report on? Did little Jimmy not win third prize in the 100 metres??…no instead they report on Israel.

    There are none so blind…

  23. Berk, if you’d lay off the sauce in the morning, your posts might be understandable.

  24. @ Hawkeye

    before you become all high and mighty about how you were insulted in the past (justifiably)

    Have I understood correctly that you believe some nutjob was justified in calling me and others “piggish goyim”?

    Are you now showing your true colours?

    And your pathetic attempts to dismiss my comments as “nitpicking” just because I regularly challenge the CiFW world view only reflect badly on yourself.

    But talking about nutjobs – how about the wankers who recommended Toko LeMoko’s justification of the racist term “piggish goyim” and reference to me as being in the company of “inquisitors, brownshirts, pogromists (demagogic, journalistic or otherwise)”?

    Come on, you racists – step forward and make yourselves known.

  25. Pretz

    “Have I understood correctly that you believe some nutjob was justified in calling me and others “piggish goyim”?

    Are you now showing your true colours?”

    Of course not. I meant that you were justified in being insulted.

    Interesting how you are so quick to jump to conclusions…

  26. pretzelberg,

    You too are quick to accuse others of things, but don’t play the victim, please.

    Remember your insulting comment to Israelinurse?

  27. @ modernityblog

    I’m not “playing the victim” – I’m just a bit shocked that people here seem to find “piggish goy” fair comment.

    And have I called Israelinurse e.g. a “stupid Jew-f*ck”? No – nor anything even remotely as offensive.

    Why are people here complaining about anti-Semitism while being OK with racists like Toko LeMoko?

    The climate here certainly does compromise the site’s stated mission.

  28. pretzelberg,

    You act like a child, a lot of otherwise interesting discussions are ruined by you whining about how people are nasty to you or insult you.

    Why not grow up?

    You give it out when it suits you and then conveniently forget what you’ve said.

    So someone insulted you, big deal, either forget it (better for your sanity), start a blog and rant about it (takes 5 mins) or find a shrink…

    Your choice, I think the latter’s probably best 🙂

  29. @ modernityblog

    You must be aware that suggesting another poster needs to see a shrink is no.1 childish put-down on such threads.

    It’s one of Papalagi’s favourite responses to others over at CiF. Happy in that kind of company?

    Go ahead and play down racial epithets – strange, given that I imagined this website would be against such things.

    And no – I do not “give out” any such thing.