What happens when the Guardian has a What do you want to talk about thread?
The simple answer: more Israel-obsession. This time though with plenty of Holocaust denial and other assorted antisemtism mixed in. At the time of writing each of the posts below remain undeleted, some of which have been up for over two days.
The first “treat” of the thread is this, a comment which sets the tone for the entire thread.
If you click on the link that preemptiveresponse directs readers to, it takes you to this:
As Jacob Gewirtz notes in The Lie of Nazi-Zionist Collaboration, “the odious charge of Zionist-Nazi collaboration is a very significant variation of the “Zionism equals racism” theme. The latter was aimed at convincing the Third World that Israel, was like South Africa, a pariah state that had no right to exist.”
If we take a closer look at the source of this antisemitic publication, www.vho.org, an even clearer picture emerges as to the vile nature of what preemptiveresponse posted.
Even to the untrained eye, this site should send alarm bells ringing.
According to the Stephen Roth Institute for Antisemitism,
The Belgium-based European Foundation for Free Historical Research (Vrij Historisch Onderzoek — VHO), headed by Siegfried Verbeke, is one of the main distributors of Holocaust denial maerial in the world today (see previous reports). This is in spite of the fact that Belgium passed a law in 1995 making Holocaust denial illegal. VHO maintains strong links with individuals and organizations in several countries, such as Radio Islam in Sweden, the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH) in California, and the Australian Adelaide Institute. VHO publishes, translates and disseminates Holocaust denial publications from all over the world, mainly through its widely-linked website on the Internet. Recently, Verbeke began propagating on his website the quarterly Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung (Quarterly for Free Historical Research), a forum for Holocaust denial in German. He distributes books and pamphlets that are banned in Germany (see Germany). German Holocaust denier Germar Rudolf, who fled to Spain to avoid serving a prison sentence, is one of Verbeke’s favorite authors. His publications, translated into several languages can be downloaded from the VHO-website. [emphasis added]
From preemptiveresponse’s post we jump to this one, with echoes of the blood libel in the unfounded claim that Israelis “kill [Palestinian] kids”.
Then we have Gegenbeispiel who visited the VHO website and who in his own bigotry and ignorance found it “pretty impressive”.
I should note that by this time in the thread there are numerous comments in between the ones cited above discussing, Jews, Palestine and Israeli nukes, all completely off-topic.
With the thread still open the next morning, preemptiveresponse is back again with another astonishingly stomach churning antisemitic comment.
To which Gegenspiel retorted with this:
We then have backtothepoint weighing in with a comment reminiscent of the writings of antisemite Norman Finkelstein with a follow up calling for the “end of Israel as a Jewish state”, a euphemism for a Second Holocaust.
With the debate shifting to the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state, we then have this from Gegenbeispiel.
The next morning, the salvo of Israel-obsessive comments begins with this one from rumourcontrol employing the Livingstone Formulation in the process:
Then we have backtothepoint rattling off more antisemitic charges suggesting that pro-Israel posters are only interested in Holocaust denial if it is used to defend Israel.
Next we have quite an admission from backtothepoint with this:
Now here’s the rub. A poster that is openly antisemitic also turns out to be banned, yet is still allowed to post with impunity on CiF. Could this be a reincarnation of William Bapthorpe perhaps? Do you think that the moderators will act on this information and ban backtothepoint? Don’t hold your breath.
Then we have preemptiveresponse returning to the theme of his earlier posts in the thread.
Followed up with preemptiveresponse referring us to a chapter in Ralph Schoenman’s book, “The Hidden History of Zionism” in the link below.
For those unfamiliar with Ralph Schoenman, he is a radical Marxist dismissed by mainstream historians as a conspiracy theorist. Here’s a screenshot of an excerpt from the link preemptiveresponse refers us to:
We then have preemptiveresponse referring readers to yet another antizionist link. This time it takes you to a website extolling the virtues of Lenni Brenner, author of “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis“ , a book that has even been discredited among antizionists.
Described as an anti-Zionist propaganda merchant, Brenner was banned from at least one university in the UK for his antisemitism. Interestingly, the odious Tony Greenstein was, according to Aleph, one of the main organizers of Brenner’s tours in the UK.
Next, we have a post from another banned poster, giyusandtroll with this gem.
And then we have our old friend, Steve Hill, the terrorist wannabe, demonstrating his interest in Neturei Karta, a group of ultra-orthodox anti-Zionist Jews that famously attended a Holocaust denial conference organized by Ahmadinejad.
Notice the “some of my best friends are Jews” comment by Steve Hill. Where have I heard that old chestnut before? And look, Steve Hill has now been elevated to above the line contributor status (thats what the big “C” in blue means). TALK ABOUT A SLAP IN THE FACE OF JEWS AFTER HE EXPRESSED HIS WISH TO TERRORIZE JEWS BY LOBBING KASSAM ROCKETS AT THEM.
Well if anything, he sure fits the profile for a Guardian writer so his “promotion” should not come as a surprise.
The final two posts of the thread (which is still open at the time of writing) are from Backtothepoint, one which mocks the memory of all the Jews that were gassed by the Nazis and the second one which engages in Holocaust minimalization.
While these comments certainly speak for themselves, there are three points to note.
First, Yaacov Lozowick recently quipped to me that he only reads the Guardian to follow trends in antisemitism. Well I have a strong feeling that this outpouring of antisemtism had a lot to do with the hysteria whipped up by the Guardian last week with its now debunked revelations that Israel offered nuclear weapons to South Africa.
Two, this is yet another example of how anti-Zionist radical left wing ideology embraces neo-Nazism in pursuit of the common goal of destroying Israel as the homeland of the Jewish nation.
Finally, this is once again another stark demonstration of how the Guardian provides a welcome platform to antisemitic discourse, allowing this poison to filter into the mainstream.
If you are equally disgusted by this, please take the time to complain to Alan Rusbridger, editor in chief of the Guardian, at alan.rusbridger@guardian.co.uk and Katherine Viner, executive editor of Comment is Free, at katherine.viner@guardian.co.uk.
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COMMITTEE FOR ACCURACY IN MIDDLE EAST REPORTING AND ANALYSIS
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What happens when the Guardian has a What do you want to talk about thread?
The simple answer: more Israel-obsession. This time though with plenty of Holocaust denial and other assorted antisemtism mixed in. At the time of writing each of the posts below remain undeleted, some of which have been up for over two days.
The first “treat” of the thread is this, a comment which sets the tone for the entire thread.
If you click on the link that preemptiveresponse directs readers to, it takes you to this:
As Jacob Gewirtz notes in The Lie of Nazi-Zionist Collaboration, “the odious charge of Zionist-Nazi collaboration is a very significant variation of the “Zionism equals racism” theme. The latter was aimed at convincing the Third World that Israel, was like South Africa, a pariah state that had no right to exist.”
If we take a closer look at the source of this antisemitic publication, www.vho.org, an even clearer picture emerges as to the vile nature of what preemptiveresponse posted.
Even to the untrained eye, this site should send alarm bells ringing.
According to the Stephen Roth Institute for Antisemitism,
From preemptiveresponse’s post we jump to this one, with echoes of the blood libel in the unfounded claim that Israelis “kill [Palestinian] kids”.
Then we have Gegenbeispiel who visited the VHO website and who in his own bigotry and ignorance found it “pretty impressive”.
I should note that by this time in the thread there are numerous comments in between the ones cited above discussing, Jews, Palestine and Israeli nukes, all completely off-topic.
With the thread still open the next morning, preemptiveresponse is back again with another astonishingly stomach churning antisemitic comment.
To which Gegenspiel retorted with this:
We then have backtothepoint weighing in with a comment reminiscent of the writings of antisemite Norman Finkelstein with a follow up calling for the “end of Israel as a Jewish state”, a euphemism for a Second Holocaust.
With the debate shifting to the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state, we then have this from Gegenbeispiel.
The next morning, the salvo of Israel-obsessive comments begins with this one from rumourcontrol employing the Livingstone Formulation in the process:
Then we have backtothepoint rattling off more antisemitic charges suggesting that pro-Israel posters are only interested in Holocaust denial if it is used to defend Israel.
Next we have quite an admission from backtothepoint with this:
Now here’s the rub. A poster that is openly antisemitic also turns out to be banned, yet is still allowed to post with impunity on CiF. Could this be a reincarnation of William Bapthorpe perhaps? Do you think that the moderators will act on this information and ban backtothepoint? Don’t hold your breath.
Then we have preemptiveresponse returning to the theme of his earlier posts in the thread.
Followed up with preemptiveresponse referring us to a chapter in Ralph Schoenman’s book, “The Hidden History of Zionism” in the link below.
For those unfamiliar with Ralph Schoenman, he is a radical Marxist dismissed by mainstream historians as a conspiracy theorist. Here’s a screenshot of an excerpt from the link preemptiveresponse refers us to:
We then have preemptiveresponse referring readers to yet another antizionist link. This time it takes you to a website extolling the virtues of Lenni Brenner, author of “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis“ , a book that has even been discredited among antizionists.
Described as an anti-Zionist propaganda merchant, Brenner was banned from at least one university in the UK for his antisemitism. Interestingly, the odious Tony Greenstein was, according to Aleph, one of the main organizers of Brenner’s tours in the UK.
Next, we have a post from another banned poster, giyusandtroll with this gem.
And then we have our old friend, Steve Hill, the terrorist wannabe, demonstrating his interest in Neturei Karta, a group of ultra-orthodox anti-Zionist Jews that famously attended a Holocaust denial conference organized by Ahmadinejad.
Notice the “some of my best friends are Jews” comment by Steve Hill. Where have I heard that old chestnut before? And look, Steve Hill has now been elevated to above the line contributor status (thats what the big “C” in blue means). TALK ABOUT A SLAP IN THE FACE OF JEWS AFTER HE EXPRESSED HIS WISH TO TERRORIZE JEWS BY LOBBING KASSAM ROCKETS AT THEM.
Well if anything, he sure fits the profile for a Guardian writer so his “promotion” should not come as a surprise.
The final two posts of the thread (which is still open at the time of writing) are from Backtothepoint, one which mocks the memory of all the Jews that were gassed by the Nazis and the second one which engages in Holocaust minimalization.
While these comments certainly speak for themselves, there are three points to note.
First, Yaacov Lozowick recently quipped to me that he only reads the Guardian to follow trends in antisemitism. Well I have a strong feeling that this outpouring of antisemtism had a lot to do with the hysteria whipped up by the Guardian last week with its now debunked revelations that Israel offered nuclear weapons to South Africa.
Two, this is yet another example of how anti-Zionist radical left wing ideology embraces neo-Nazism in pursuit of the common goal of destroying Israel as the homeland of the Jewish nation.
Finally, this is once again another stark demonstration of how the Guardian provides a welcome platform to antisemitic discourse, allowing this poison to filter into the mainstream.
If you are equally disgusted by this, please take the time to complain to Alan Rusbridger, editor in chief of the Guardian, at alan.rusbridger@guardian.co.uk and Katherine Viner, executive editor of Comment is Free, at katherine.viner@guardian.co.uk.
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