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On the English Defence League (the “enemy of my enemy” is sometimes still just my enemy)


I know many people might be tempted by the English Defence League due to their opposition to radical Islam but, in reality, their venom is actually directed against Muslims, as a group – and they often engage in rhetoric suggesting that all Muslims are Jihadists.  As such, EDL, it should be clear, is not an anti-totalitarian movement, but rather, a racist one.

Radical Islam, there should be no doubt, represents the biggest threat to the progressive values I cherish – values such as individual liberty, tolerance, religious pluralism, democracy, a free press, gender equality, and gay rights.  Further, I view the fight against this radical, anti-Semiticmillenarianistic movement – diffuse though it is (that is, it’s not represented by any one single state actor) –  as the moral test of our generation.

More broadly, its tragic that there hasn’t developed a broad-based mainstream coalition to fight radical Islam across the globe – one which unites the anti-totalitarian elements within both the left and the right.

While it is, perhaps, understandable that many see the English Defence League (EDL) as political allies in the fight against Jihadism in Europe, all of the available evidence demonstrates that EDL (grass-roots supporters as well as many within its leadership) is far too compromised by affiliations with neo-Nazis, and other radical racist movements, for principled anti-Islamists to make an allegiance with them.

It is simply a fact that some EDL organizers are proven Neo-Nazis

 

Wayne Baldwin, member of the EDL’s Birmingham Division

 


In the video clip in this Modernity post you will see Luke Pippen, EDL’s Welsh Division organizer, in front of a house with his friends, tattooed skinheads giving the Nazi salute.

At an EDL protest in Birmingham fascists and right-wing extremists were clearly visible, some happily giving Nazi salutes. They included Chris Renton, a BNP supporter from Weston-super-Mare, who runs their website.

One face seen at most EDL events is Alan Spence from Newcastle upon Tyne. Spence is pretty much now the EDL organizer in Newcastle. Spence, who is a BNP gold member and has only recently deleted swastikas and Combat 18 images from his Facebook page, has appeared in photographs with both his spiritual leaders, Nick Griffin and Chris Robinson.

Davy Cooling, a fully fledged British National Party (BNP) member, is now a key activist in the EDL Luton “division”. This is demonstrated by his status as administrator of the Luton division’s Facebook group. Cooling still shows interest in the party, as shown by his posting on the Facebook site of the BNP’s 2009 Red, White and Blue Festival, which said: “I may attend, it will be my first one – what’s the score?”

It has been revealed that the leader of the English Defence League is a former BNP member who has served 12 months’ imprisonment for assaulting an off-duty police officer. Self-proclaimed EDL leader Tommy Robinson is really Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, from Bedford.

 

EDL leader "Tommy Robinson"

 

Kevin Carroll is considered to be one of the founding fathers of the EDL. It was revealed in a BBC documentary, Young, British and Angry, that he had signed the nomination papers in the 2007 Luton council elections for Robert Sherratt, a BNP candidate and activist in the Nazi November 9th Society.

BNP, it should be noted, is allied, in the European Parliament, with the nationalist Hungarian party, Jobbik, whose leaders advance an often openly anti-Semitic agenda.  In a newsletter published by a group calling itself “The trade union of Hungarian police officers prepared for action,” the following was printed. “Given our current situation, anti-Semitism is not just our right, but it is the duty of every Hungarian homeland lover, and we must prepare for armed battle against the Jews.” The editor of the union, Judit Szima, was, at the time, a Jobbik candidate in the upcoming election for the European Union parliament. Szima “didn’t see anything wrong with the content of the article.”

While I’m sure there are plenty of non-racists among the membership of EDL, as well, its clear the group’s leadership is irreparably compromised by racist and extremist allegiances – enough to make me question the motivations of any genuine anti-racist opponents of radical Islam who are flirting with the organization.

Further, there have been some Jews tempted by EDL’s alleged support for Israel, and opposition to anti-Semitism – and EDL has set up a recruitment effort aimed at Jews.  In response, many have argued, quite persuasively, that such “support” merely represents a cynical attempt by EDL to gain respectability.  And, that, ultimately, such support will vanish once the services of their Jewish allies are no longer required.  In such a scenario, it is feared, given EDL’s background and fascist affiliations, it certainly isn’t far-fetched to see them pivot from anti-Islam agitation to anti-Semitism.

As Modernity has pointed out:

“Why [would] neo-Nazis suddenly take a liking to Israelis, and Jews. The problem being is that, neo-Nazis don’t like Jews, and in particular Israel as it is seen as the centre of Jewish power. That is something that all neo-Nazis fear the most. A central theme to Nazism is the notion that Jews control and manipulate events around the world from a central location, in this case Israel. [Warning: illustrative links to original Nazi propaganda, nasty racist material.]  It is hardly credible that entrenched neo-Nazis would suddenly wake up one-day and decide “Yes, we like Israelis.”  It seems incongruous, and ever so improbable.”

As Jon Benjamin, UK Board of Deputies chief executive, said:

“The EDL’s supposed ‘support’ for Israel is empty and duplicitous. It is built on a foundation of…hatred which we reject entirely.”

The “enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a tempting but dangerous road to go down.  Whether or not the EDL decides to turn on its Jewish/Zionist supporters is not really the main point.  What’s at stake is more than our safety.  Its our integrity.

143 replies »

  1. Am late to this discussion, but I agree with the thrust of this article.

    I wouldn’t touch the EDL with the proverbial ten foot barge pole but we should be questioning why it is even necessary for it to exist and would it exist and generate such heat if the UK were not a country in crisis?

    armaros, I too am aware of the antisemitism and pro-Islamism in the UK particularly. The pro-Islamism is by default, because the UK leaders either cannot be bothered to take measures to encounter the dangers of Islamism or because of brainwashing which masquerades as “multiculturalism” and double bind nature of not being allowed to name that danger for what it is, has them floundering about what to do about it.

    The EDL is not the answer, though, of that much I am sure. What is needed is the means and freedom by which to educate about the real nature of Islamism, regardless of its civilised veneer in government and other office. It’d be a slower process but a more effective one.

  2. the “is not the answer” argument I have heard about our Greens as long as I can remember and no matter how much I dislike them for very good reasons I wonder would so much good and nutty Ecology alike have become so mainstream without them insisting consistently and obnoxiously on “not being the answer”.

    Both Baroness Ashton and Joschka Fischer have built their career on activism within that “not the answer” movement

    just saying …

  3. This wet lefty liberal answer of “I don’t know much about the EDL but they’re not the answer” is one of the most intellectually vapid arguments I ever come across.

    Pop back when you’ve come up with a better way of educating the man in the street or the pub or the football terrace about Islam. EDL is doing that very well and doing a sterling job of counteracting racism while they’re at it.

    That the people who’ve been back and forth with blogs and articles and other such for 10 years or so can’t see this is because you don’t actually get off your asses and go and meet these people. What have you got to loose: they’re certainly not terrorists like Hamas, so go to a meet up, talk to the rank and file and then decide: don’t look at a bunch of nonsense on YouTube or Facebook or believe the uninformed writings of keyboard warriors.

  4. “one of the most intellectually vapid arguments I ever come across.”

    As opposed to the EDL with their abuse, evasion of discussion of uncomfortable facts, and behind-the-scenes threats?

    I think the fact that Dave of the CST is in agreement with this article says it all. Nobody in Britain knows more about antisemitism than the CST.

    I’m pleased most people are not as stupid as the EDL think we are. We see through them.

  5. What is the CST going to do for this chap and his daughter. He joined the EDL forums last night and goes by the attractive and surprisingly previously unclaimed monica of “Bacon Crusader”:

    “Hello there well im a 34 year old married father of 2. Have supported what the edl do for a while but recently my eldest daughter has been a victim of racist bullying at her school, this made me decide to become more vocal and open of my support for the edl. She was told by a young muslim that it was a waste of time her being in school cos when sharia law comes in she will be chained to the kitchen sink. My daughter’s have been raised not to be racist in any way shame the same cant be said of this lad. All I can say is that this lads father/brother’s/uncles and cousins must be spouting these vile and disturbing ideas to this lad. Any how you will probably see me around on here quiet often, cant always attend marches due to work commitments but rest assured I will never give up the fight until we are free from these vile hate merchants.”

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3854693/1/

    Is his “islamophobia” well founded or baseless?

    I don’t go searching for stories like this, they pop up, as if on demand, whenever I need one. Or, perhaps, is the EDL so huge and well funded by some unseen, octopus like conspiracy, that they can supply such stories to whip up their fighting forces into a frenzy when necessary?

    If the CST thinks the EDL has time to be “anti-semitic” while deviously covering its tracks because its really a front for scary neo-nazis they are more deranged than the whole 9-11 truther movement. The Jew hatred the CST is looking for is not even remotely part of the EDL because the problem that is faced by the non-elites in the UK who live in close proximity to Muslims with views like this are so huge, they don’t have time to study the Protocols or invent new blood libels.

  6. That idiot in the picture is NOT EDL. He has been physically ejected from demo’s, because of the fact he is a nazi scumbag.

    Along with his little crew in the picture, it has been discovered that these people have purposely set about to discredit the EDL, by sieg heiling in front of WDL/EDL flags, at demo’s, exposing their nazi tattoos etc.

    Clearly their little ploy has worked, because you believe it.

  7. The EDL “management” must be as thick as the proverbial short planks

    Why cannot it police its demonstrations, and spot and eject the likely troublemakers? (If the blob in the photo has been physically ejected before, why is it that he is allowed back? It can’t only be masochism).

    How can it gain any traction as an organisation until it does so?

    AmberSutherland, seeing is believing – I am not yet so far gone as to doubt the evidence of my own eyes. Please don’t expect me to give the EDL the benefit of the doubt on its past showings, and particularly because it seems to me to be the proverbial camel which came out of a singularly ill-advised attempt by a committee to design a horse.

    Let it prove itself to be a civilised body which can conduct itself well on demonstrations rather than as it appears to be – a motley collection of the equivalent of football louts united only by hatred.

  8. Serendipity. We do indeed have stewards, and police liason officers. If anyone is seen to be sieg heiling, being racist in any way, etc, they are immediately removed. As I’m sure you can understand, the ratio of our stewards to members is a tad on the short side so not every instance can be spotted.

    And that blob hasn’t been to a demo for a short while now, that picture is fairly recent and it has only come to light recently what has been happening.

    And if you look at some of our demonstrations – Newcastle is the perfect example – they were exactly what you have just said. Civilised, well conducted, peaceful demonstrations that went without a hitch. If I may make two points. The first –

    The reason I believe that certain demo’s were successful is because we were allowed to do what we wanted to do, which is march peacefully. We didn’t have the UAF or MDL there, inciting violence and trouble (although the UAF had been in the city earlier and did try to goad us at the start). Ergo, no trouble occurs if we are left to do our marches in peace, without violent opposition.

    The second point I would make is, you are far less likely to have remembered how well Newcastle went, as the media in turn are far less likely to report on it if it went without a hitch. So you may not hear about the good ones, unless you were there. But you will definitely hear about the bad ones. Which is nothing but detrimental to our cause unfortunately.

  9. So get more stewards or don’t do this! It’s not rocket science is it?

    You should expect to meet with opposition given the state of play so get your people properly trained to deal with it without reacting in kind! Be more proactive and intelligent!

    Again, it’s hardly rocket science.

    As things are I am suspicious of your motives. You are going to have to do one hell of a lot to convince me and others like me that you are on the level.

  10. *clicks fingers and hundreds of stewards materialise* Oh no wait, it’s not that easy is it?

    Do you think it’s acceptable for MDL to turn up, throwing missiles at us, inciting trouble, carrying weapons etc? If they weren’t there (or the UAF), there would BE no trouble. So why isn’t your venom directed at those organisations?

    Unfortunately, people like you have already made your minds up. There would be NO convincing you. It doesn’t matter what we say, you’ve decided that we’re nazi, racist, fascist, violent thugs (have I left any out there?)

  11. No. EDL should and probably will stay rough and tough and ready to fight back in defence. The reason it has a chance of actually stemming the tide of Islam’s incursion into the west is because it is not another bloody blog, article, conference or talking shop in general.

    As they say, E-E-EEE DEEE ELLL is coming down the road.

    And you know what… they’re united by a love of freedom even if they might not realise it and it’s a much better cause than football.

  12. @ armaros / JerusalemMite

    After seeing the posts by Roberta Moore, I can only say that I stand by my post from October 8, 2010 at 6:46 pm.

    Watch out.

  13. “That idiot in the picture is NOT EDL. He has been physically ejected from demo’s, because of the fact he is a nazi scumbag.”

    The problem is that this discrediting as you call it seems to be an ongoing thing.

    I don’t think the EDL is honest about what is really going on in their street reality. This does not make the EDL nazi or racist but points to a problem they seem to be facing vis avis nazis and racists who for whatever reason feel the need to either infiltrate the EDL or blackmail/extort it with pictures like Baldwins.

    So far nobody was able to explain why this is going on and understandably no organization likes to air its dirty laundry to the press or public.
    The price of such denial or playing down of internal problems will be articles like this one and reluctance on the part of many to support the EDL. Something which can be briefly explained by : D’uh !!

  14. Ok how are we not being honest? I’m always 100% honest so fire away.

    I can explain why Baldwin and his little weeds were doing this. They have a problem with one of the leadership, which I believe dates quite far back.

    Their little vendetta was orchestrated purely to discredit this leadership member, which is obviously immature and childish but that’s the cruz of it.

  15. Wow what an intelligent and well thought out comment.

    Yes I am EDL, and no I am neither racist or a scumbag. As my muslim friends will tell you. Oh and my black friends, sikh friends, jewish friends, need I go on?

    Less of the unfair, incorrect sweeping generalisations hmm?

  16. Thank you all those who have spoken in support of the EDL!!
    Thank you for not being biased and idiotic before stupid comments of some people, and also the media.
    Thank you for actually taking the time to get to know us, and what we stand for.

    We are a very very young organization. Mistakes happen. Infiltrations happen. It is not easy to clean up a gang of 35,000 when you cannot stop others from attending our demos. But we are doing our best.
    We are strengthening our vetting process, we are doing all we can to improve our image (not that we should have to) so that those idiotic twats out there, who ONLY judge people on IMAGE, can calm their hearts a bit.

    Quite frankly we do NOT have to justify anything to imbeciles who despite being informed of who we are and what we stand for, keep on their bloody tyrade against us, insulting, demonizing, denigrating.. etc.
    But remain COWARDS!!

    Today I spent 1 hour on the phone to some guy who contacted Rabbi Shifren begging him not to attend our EDL demo, stating that we were Nazis in disguise and that this is all a propaganda issue.
    The Rabbi replied and copied me on his reply. When I saw the amount of rubbish that JEWISH GUY said about us, I was fuming!!

    I wrote him a “nice little message” in reply too (Which by the way got the approval seal of the Rabbi), and put him in his place.
    So he called me and we talked for 1 hour. He was constantly interrupting me when I started trashing every single one of his pathetic arguments.
    I do NOT like to be interrupted when I speak, as I give plenty of time for others to speak and get their point heard. I am respectful enough to let them speak, so I demand the same courtesy, so in the end I had to shout to get a word in.

    At the end of the conversation he started doubting his own opinions of the EDL. So I did not waste my time, but I had to be rude to get a word in, and if this is what it takes to make these cowards listen, then this is what I shall do.

    To all the Jews out there:

    JOIN THE EDL, AND GET YOUR VOICES HEARD.
    You will NOT be defended by your “Jewish” brothers. You will not be defended by the CST (Who are NEVER in the thick of things), and you will NOT be defended by the Zionist Federation.

    Our Jewish society has been corrupted to the extreme now. Jews are paralysed with fear, and they would be the FIRST ONES to RUN out of this country when things get heated up. And where will these running Jews go?? If they think that Israel will be safe for them, they better think again.

    I am talking to YOU, you pathetic anti-Zionist Jewish twats out there!! You shall deserve the end that you get, because I will not fight for you if you will not fight for yourself. I would defend you if you are fighting with me, but if you are leaving this dirty work for us, I will NOT even forgive you. Cowards deserve my contempt.

    If you think that appeasing Islamo-fascists will keep the beast at bay, you have learnt NOTHING from Nazi Germany, you bloody KAPOS!!!!

    I am very very angry with the Jewish community for being so weak and so pathetically afraid of such vermin which we ourselves, even in small numbers can bring down!!

    YOU may surrrender. But we will NEVER do so!! Keep you stupid fears and pessimism out of my way! If you are not with us, you are against us, and I for one will not forget that.

    If anyone wishes to contact me you can reach me here:

    edljdiv@live.co.uk

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

  17. Armaros:

    I won’t spend much time debating with you. I am a busy person. But I will address this:

    “The Royal Marines has no Jewish division but I m sure there are Jews there.”

    The Army DOES have a Jewish Division. I was in the Army here in the UK and part of the Jewish Division too. So please don’t talk crap.

    “I don’t want to be in a position where what I say about the EDL, good or bad, becomes what “Jews said about the EDL”.

    Catch the drift?”

    Yeah I catch the drift. You are SCARED of being called a racist. You are SCARED of what others will think of you and your opinion. LOL!!!
    Well well…. while you are busy being “scared” the EDL is busy stopping Islamization of this country. Now stop and think for 1 minute. What do you think people will care about more? YOU or OUR actions?

    Would you be SCARED to confront a Muslim who is bullying your daughter for example? Ohhhh least they call you a racist, right??

    This is the pathetic attitude I am talking about.
    Anyone with a quarter of a brain would know that you do not speak for the EDL, and any comment you make is your own. Unless you associate yourself with idiotic radical left wingers or similar.

    This is precisely the paralysing fear I am talking about. And they say men have balls, huh? I reckon WOMEN have more balls if you ask me.

    “What I meant by protection was related to a poster basically demanding that Jews join the EDL because of their Jewishness. If Jews did that collectively as she desired, it would create a new reality for Jews in the UK and possibly expose them, their property, schools etc to violence…or more violence shall I say….than today.”

    WTF? When did I suggest Jews should join the EDL because of their Jewishness?? They should join because they are a minority who is also in danger in our country, in our streets…

    Do NOT put words into my mouth or claim to know my intentions!

    If more Jews joined the EDL it would NOT create more violence. It would create a RESISTANCE.

    I see you have absolutely NO mind for strategy or clear thinking. Try to work on it and see reality as it is. Stop feeding your imagination.

    It’s very simple. FIGHT or be DHIMMIFIED. Your choice.

    I am sure I can still find thousands of fighting Jews out there who are not as coward as you are.
    Those will be the heroes who will help us all safeguard a future for our children. And we owe them this much, since we did not have to fight for our freedom. Our parents did that instead. We owe them that too.
    Or they would have died for nothing.

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

  18. Hairshirt

    “armaros, I too am aware of the antisemitism and pro-Islamism in the UK particularly.”

    Yeah? And what are YOU doing about it?

    “The EDL is not the answer, though, of that much I am sure.
    What is needed is the means and freedom by which to educate about the real nature of Islamism, regardless of its civilised veneer in government and other office. It’d be a slower process but a more effective one.”

    And HOW will you achieve that, brainbox? WHO is out there bringing this “solution” to Great Britain? YOU?

    No, sunshine. The MIGHTY EDL, whether you like it or not.
    We will MAKE our government listen. know why? Because we take to the streets, we shout, we protest, and we attack the government where it hurts, in their POCKETS.

    Our demos make the government spend thousands of pounds. They want an end to is? Good. So listen to us and we will stop. If they continue to ignore us, we will do more than just demos.

    The EDL is the answer as a group that is highlighting these issues. You lot have been far too bloody submissive, wrapped like cowards in your idiotic shivering fear.

    Brian of London is right. We MUST remain TOUGH. No one is listening to you. NO ONE listens to the weak. They only listen to the NOISE.
    Haven’t you learnt anything???

    The irrationality and stupidity of some people baffles me big time.
    I thought we were supposed to be HOMO SAPIENS. Some people have no SAPIENS attached to their “homo” label.

    Uffff!!

    Cowards do not win wars. If you want to be heard my friend, you have to scream!! Capisce?

  19. Roberta

    “Yeah I catch the drift. You are SCARED of being called a racist. You are SCARED of what others will think of you and your opinion. LOL!!!
    Well well…. while you are busy being “scared” the EDL is busy stopping Islamization of this country. Now stop and think for 1 minute. What do you think people will care about more? YOU or OUR actions?

    I am not scared of anything regarding what people may say about ME as a person. If I had $100 for every time I was called a racist, I would own my own newspaper.

    What I was trying to explain is that Jews will be blamed for the EDLs shortcomings should something bad happen.

    As it is typically the case, when a Jew speaks, many interpret that as the “Jews speak”.

    ..Would you be SCARED to confront a Muslim who is bullying your daughter for example? Ohhhh least they call you a racist, right??..

    No it isn’t about that. Again, what a person does is one thing, what a community does collectively is something else.

    “This is the pathetic attitude I am talking about.
    Anyone with a quarter of a brain would know that you do not speak for the EDL, and any comment you make is your own. Unless you associate yourself with idiotic radical left wingers or similar.”

    You are right, but the perception is something else.

    “This is precisely the paralysing fear I am talking about. And they say men have balls, huh? I reckon WOMEN have more balls if you ask me. ”

    I have no issue with women and their balls. Believe me I love and respect women 100%. I was raised by my mother mostly so I need no lecture.
    If more women would attend EDL demos and less drunken guys you would probably get better PR results.
    In the end women need to be at the forefront of this fight against Sharia/Jihad as they will be the first to feel its consequences.
    You must admit that if a bunch of women would show up with the flags and signs singing, the police would respond differently and the Muslims would be equally if not more enraged. You could thus better control the media coverage. As it stands, each time a window breaks, the EDL gets covered as a violent insurgency. Perception is reality when you re playing politics.

    What I am trying to figure out is why are you attacking me when I said nothing attacking the EDL or the idea that Jews should join it.

    I was merely trying to explain why Jews in the UK might be reluctant to joining fearing it would expose them to more antisemitism and pit them against the British state.
    I do not speak for them, I am a Canadian looking at this from the outside.

    “WTF? When did I suggest Jews should join the EDL because of their Jewishness?? They should join because they are a minority who is also in danger in our country, in our streets…

    Do NOT put words into my mouth or claim to know my intentions! ”

    I didn’t say you said it. I said I detect that desire and demand from some of the EDL posters here. It was not specifically pointing to anybody in particular.
    You yourself say they should join because they are an endangered minority. I am not arguing for them to join or not to join. I merely state that joining or not joining should be an individual choice.

    “Our demos make the government spend thousands of pounds. They want an end to is? Good. So listen to us and we will stop. If they continue to ignore us, we will do more than just demos. ”

    I recognize that. I hope it will work though I would prefer (as an outsider) that the EDL would be more like the Tea Party, organizing in backing candidates who share the view that Jihad/Sharia are a danger, organize rallies with speakers educating people and thus affect the democratic process via democratic means.
    You must recognize that sometimes the EDL freaks people out. When they smash press vans and hurl rocks at restaurants.

    I am honestly very sad that this beautiful and civilized country has become like this. You must also admit that violence has its limits when making political points. And violence scares away potential supporters.

    “we will do more than just demos. ”

    I don’t even want to imagine what that might be.
    How do you think you can save democracy and liberty like this?

    Like I said, I think the EDL has had some positive impact. Namely the effect they had on militant jihadis’ confidence to descend on the streets unhinged and fearless of consequences.
    Al Quds day in London was a success for the EDL when they chanted down the Hezbollah chants.
    BUT my concern is still with a crowd of beer fueled young men tossing rocks at restos and intimidating people in their neighborhoods.
    That is hard to control and sooner or later something tragic will happen.

    So yes I am a little scared of that. I am scared (concerned is a better word) that someone innocent gets hurt.
    If you ever spoke with someone from the IDF they must have told you about how the Jihad uses kids as props. They bring them to demos and riots hoping that they get hurt so they can then earn PR points. Take that as a lesson and warning because sooner or later that is what you will have to deal with.

    In Toronto a couple of years ago Palestinian protesters brought little kids to throw eggs and rocks at Jews during some Gaza or Lebanon demo.
    Little kids were throwing projectiles at Jews near their temple which invited some speaker who enraged the Jihad. The police had a hard time stopping them as when they touched a child the parents were ready to scream brutality and child abuse.

    I also think the EDL has some internal problems with these nazi types who for whatever reason want to either control, extort or shame the EDL.
    Something is going on and the EDL is having a hard time dealing with that.

    Until that is resolved in any measurable way, the Leftist propaganda will continue that the EDL is Nazi/Fascist. Which means that the media will follow the leftist line.

  20. “If more women would attend EDL demos and less drunken guys you would probably get better PR results.”

    But what if it turns out to be more drunken women?

  21. “But what if it turns out to be more drunken women?”

    Since when were drunken English girls threatening to anyone? (except perhaps those who cannot stand loud girls in cute outfits)

    Maybe they will be like this:

    The vampire seems a bit much though.

  22. Armaros:

    You ARE scared. You cannot fool me.
    And for once, stop criticizing the EDL for the things you believe are wrong. We are not stupid. We know we have faults. But it seems you cannot see your own.

    “What I was trying to explain is that Jews will be blamed for the EDLs shortcomings should something bad happen.”

    So??? We are blamed for everything anyway, even when we don’t do anything. One more idiotic demonization will not stop us.
    In fact, if we are together in this, they can demonize us all they want, but the difference is that this time we will fight back and not hide like cowards.

    Can you not understand what I am saying?

    “As it is typically the case, when a Jew speaks, many interpret that as the “Jews speak”.”

    So WHAT???? Are you going to avoid speaking or defending yourself just because some retards interpret things their way??? Oh please!! How much more dhimmified can you get? And you say you are not scared?
    You are TERRIFIED. Shame on you!!!!

    You talk about “If more women did this, IF more women did that, IF the EDL did this…” Listen up, we have to work with what we have. ok?
    There are no IFs or BUTs. There are hundreds of women who come to our demos, and some even bring their children.

    There is a Jewish family who is the Jewish division who always turn up with their children and even their dog. I also bring my dog.

    If the EDL demos were violent as you suggest we wouldn’t allow kids in it.

    The violence is NOT provoked by the EDL. It is a result of our presence. Everywhere we go to carry out PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS, we are followed by the Nazi fascist scum UAF, MDL, MAC and the rest of the vermin.

    It is THEY who incite hate, they are the ones who are there deliberately to sabotage our demonstrations, to stop us from speaking the truth and to attack us violently. Time and time again we have exposed them in our videos. Make no mistake. We will NOT be harassed or bullied. If these mugs are coming for a fight then they will have one.

    We in the EDL have no interest whatsoever to become politically involved. We do not want to be a political party. We are not here to topple our government, but to make them listen and act. We voted for them, so they must abide by their promises and sort the country out. This is not our job.

    Stop telling us what to do. Go and do it yourself.

    Our boys like to have a drink. Legionaries liked to have a drink. Gauls liked to have a drink. Vikings liked to have a drink. What on earth is wrong with that?

    We do not like when people get too drunk before our demos. We are trying to stop this, and most times we get our drunk comrades out of our demos when we see them. But we cannot stop them from doing so.
    Besides I think that some people need “dutch courage” and therefore will drink to maintain their angry state, which is necessary in this fight.

    We are NOT the ones tossing rocks and burning vans. Go and look at the Muslim ghettos in France. THAT is a riot.
    Get your facts right.

    The EDL has been restraining itself for a long time. We have not retaliated much, but it comes to a point where we will not keep taking it, like Israel does. Enough is enough. If these bastards will gather in OUR streets to stop OUR protest and attack our people, WE WILL retaliate. This is WAR.

    And if I am honest with you, I think the EDL is not aggressive enough. We are too damn law abiding while these beasts run riots in our streets and voice their anti-Semitism clearly in the media. This has to stop.

    Violence is the very last resource but it will be used if we need it. This is the only language that bullies understand. And I know that because I had to physically fight bullies myself.

    Throwing eggs is not being a Nazi. I am seriously concerned with your twisted line of thinking.

    I said it before. If you are not with us, you are against us. There are many ways to fight. We fight in many ways. We fight in the media, we fight in the universities, and we fight in the streets. There is more to the EDL than most of you will ever know.

    We are the ones out there taking the brunt of Islamic violence and we will show these backwards people that the English are a mighty nation and they will fight back and erase the threat from their shores.

    You are free to be scared all you want, but unless you do something to help us stop Islamization and for your country, then your opinions will not make any difference to any of us.

    Stop criticizing. Start acting. Show me what you are capable of doing. The EDL also have “armchair warriors” who are responsible for writing articles and combating media propaganda. You can stay off the streets and do that instead.

    There is absolutely no excuse not to fight.

    EDL
    Jewish Division

  23. Roberta , I admire your courage and your conviction, but you have to understand where us “older” Jews are coming from. We don’t believe in putting ourselves ‘out there’ as Jews, as we have lived through years of antisemitism.

    I realise that you are idealistic and good on you for that, but as much as you feel secure in being Jewish, believe me & I speak with many years of experience, it is always there simmering beneath the surface, especially in the UK

    England has a long and poor history of antisemitism.

    I received an email just today from a friend in England entitled
    “Britain’s MI6 used explosives to try to stop ships carrying Holocaust survivors to the Holy Land”

    WW2 Britain Blew Up Jewish Refugee Ships by Andrew Roberts

    A new book uncovers shocking secret attacks launched on ships bearing
    Holocaust survivors en route to Israel. Andrew Roberts on the violent
    lengths to which post-war Britain went to appease oil-rich Arab states.

  24. To Shirl – National interests driven by access to resources like oil isn’t about anti Semitism. If using explosives on ships BEFORE they’ve got passengers on board is anti Semitism then the Haganah were doubly anti Semites when they scuttled the Patria. The KDH was an anti Semitic act. I could list other acts committed by Jews where Jews and non Jews were murdered or injured. On your reasoning, where Gentiles as well as Jews were killed the Jewish perpetrators were anti Semites and anti Gentile. Britain is a thousand light years away. All the countries involved are 70 years on. Times have changed, and whatever else Jews in Britain are, today, we have been given every opportunity, with our successes celebrated. That doesn’t happen in a country that solidly hates Jews.

    The Britain that I’ve lived in all these years is not discernibly anti Semitic, just as my community is not discernibly anti gentile, but these attitudes do exist.

    I’m an older Jew, I used to make sweeping statements like you once till I realised how close I am to see the life I have in England, a good life, removed. I’ve got faith in my non Jewish friends and neighbours because like Roberta I’ve lived outside the bubble, because when I’ve physically been in need, they have been there. Because we have sat and talked openly and whatever the differences, we showed respect for each other and embraced at the end of it.

    Some of the trouble we face now is because of old Jews as you put it, Shirl. We are not bystanders in all these things that confront and challenge us and others. Change has to come, we either stand and fight or we show our unworthiness to be here in Great Britain, in Australia, in Diaspora full stop and that’s before we start talking about Israel but it’s all connected.

    Reading Roberta Moore’s words made me feel something I haven’t felt for some time, honestly proud of another Diaspora Jew. G-d bless her. G-d keep her and all the others, Jews and non Jews prepared and able to stand firm, strong. In the end as my tired old eyes read, my tired old ears listen I’ve come to understand, they’re all that stands between us and the sea.

    Roberta, if only I was younger, I’d be with you. All I can give you is my respect, my support and one other thing – my great grandchildrens’ survival rests upon you and the other young warriors. G-d bless and protect you and all the other young men and women, Jew, Christian and Hindu – let nothing come between you.

  25. Alec..I too am an “older Jew”, who grew up in Whitechapel, so I really couldn’t be more Jewish !!

    My grandparents came from the Ukraine and Poland. I grew up speaking Yiddish.

    I still have plenty of family and friends in the UK and if you think that antisemitism is still not rife, you are dreaming. Maybe you should speak to Jews who don’t live in London. Though I have heard it from friends and family there too. I have one sister-in-law in Doncaster and there is no way she would ever admit to being Jewish..in her own words ” I’d live to regret it, if I lived ”

    I think Roberta is fantastic in her stand.

    You say you can’t do it……..you can

    I am. I can’t elaborate though.

  26. Roberta

    You just don’t get it.

    I did not say DO NOT go to EDL demos. What I said was that when doing so do so as individuals.

    That is not fear but the respect of the fear of others and consideration for their choices as I wish not to make choices for them only myself.

    I never said throwing eggs was nazi either.
    What I said was that throwing rocks at private property was just simply not cool.
    If you want to attract people perhaps you should first consider their reluctance before calling them names. That way you can discuss issues with them instead of provoking confrontations.

    Confucius said “choose your battles carefully”

    Not just attack attack attack. You have an enemy, attack it and not those you wish to call to your cause.

    Its called diplomacy and salesmenship.

    “with us against us”

    Are you saying I am for Sharia and stoning now?

    This is not 911 and you are not Bush. I understand your frustration and I am on your side in many ways. I just made some observations which in my view are not helping your cause.
    Eventually the EDL will ether evolve and will become a Tea Party (which is not a party) like organization influencing elections or it will continue to battle in the streets. That depends on a lot of things, some within and some outside of your control.

    What I do fear is that Britain will become a big Northern Ireland with riots and tear gas everywhere. I do not blame the EDL for that but the British state. For me the EDL is an effect not a cause.

  27. Shirl,

    I understand you perfectly sweetheart.
    But the past is the past.

    I know the evil things England has done to Jews (and others) but we have a new generation now, which needs educating.
    Giving up is not an option. We must learn from the past, and not live in it.
    And we must pave our roads for the future of our children.

    England has come a long way, and with luck it will go even further.
    We must be the ones to achieve that. After all it has to start from somewhere.

    Thanks for your support.

  28. This has been a good discussion. I appreciate the points on both sides.

    Roberta

    Personally I have no issues with the EDL other than what I mentioned.

    I am concerned with the violent outbursts (which get 10 x the coverage as the UAFs acts) and the racists trying to take over or discredit/extort your movement which is occurring whether you admit it or not.

    I hope that the EDL will attract people away from the BNP and the NF.
    The anti Jihad movement cannot be hijacked by the tribalist racist far right. This is a huge challenge in every EU country and this is the only stick left in the medias hands to beat you with. They will play up every incident, photo, report to serve their narrative that the Muslims of EU today are the Jews of the 1930s. This is their MO and you should dedicate a lot of effort in beating that back.

    You have an image problem which needs to be mended if you want to attract more support.
    I know that the media is biased. The cards are stacked against you.

    Still it is what you got. You always need to play with the cards you have.

    With that in mind, I wish you success in fulfilling the objectives you state as those of the EDL (including your desire to clean up the ranks of the rot)
    At the end perceptions of racism will only cease when everybody sees another image. That requires visible minorities joining your ranks. That is now hindered by the real or perceived infiltration by racists.

    I always go back to the Tea Party.

    As I watched them grow and successfully beat back the smears.

    Only 18 months ago they were called a KKK and/or Militia front.

    During those months people have been able to see it wasn’t anything like that. They saw rallies in their own towns seen their neighbors and relatives attend and realized that the media was carrying water for the Left. Now few even among the Left media continue to make those charges. They try but the tide has now turned.
    The tide is also turning for Geert Wilders. Two years ago he was a genocidal fascist bent on deporting/killing muslims and banning the koran ,according to media. Now he has ascended to “popular populist politician”. He was already acquitted of one charge and hopefully they will also acquit him on the other as well. If not, he will transform that loss into an even greater victory.

    In France, Sarkozy has taken steps to do what needed to be done.
    Otherwise the FN would have gained on him and France would have further descended into chaos.
    He now leads the opposition to Turkish EU entry (which your government so enthusiastically supports) and has taken on the taboos of niqabs, polygamy and wife beating.

    For me the EDL is simply a working class manifestation of the same frustrations the intellectuals aware of the jihad problem are grappling with.

    Sharia, Islamization, ghettos and tolerance of the intolerant.

    Britain needs to repair this mess and do so soon as otherwise the streets will turn ugly. I used the Ulster example as that is what could become of the whole of England. Except that this enemy is not the Irish but something much worse. The Irish love life and had specific demands.

    Still it took almost 30 years to put a lid on that steamer.

    In my estimation all started to rot around 1978-79. During the Iranian revolution, which was the tip of an iceberg of militant islam rising across the world.
    It was this phenomenon the Russians responded to when they invaded Afghanistan and it was this phenomenon which caused the radicalization of British Muslims.
    Britain was always proud of being the “refuge of dissenters”. Within that they welcomed also evil “dissenters” who nestled into the UK society and started spreading their evil depraved ideology to British Muslims who for the most part were rather well integrated in previous generations.
    The new generation is the dangerous one not their fathers who came to the UK for a better life.

    These fanatics have successfully re aligned Muslim public opinion and have also taken control of the narrative on the Left. The Left loves the revolutionary zeal and collectivist aspects of Islam. It is in their DNA.
    They are also masters of propaganda and manipulation. The two allied this way is a tough nut to crack.
    Now those few hundred people (at the most who entered the UK during the 80s,90s) have converted thousands and what could have been solved with a few deportations and prosecutions a decade ago is now a huge social problem.
    The blessing in disguise here (and there always is one) is that they have overplayed their hand (as they always do) and exposed themselves to the public. More people read today the works of Oriana Fallaci, Bat Yeor, Rob Spencer and less and less trust the media on these subjects.

    The French have been warning Britain of this for decades. To no avail.
    I know a little bit about that. I actually stayed in some of those riot suburbs when I was in France 15 years ago. That was before the storm.

    I understand what it is like to be white and walk out at night to buy cigs with a crowd staring at you. Or have pebbles thrown at you from mopeds simply for walking the street. Or having to stay at a police station for safety awaiting relatives to pick you up simply because it got dark.

    I also know what it is like to hear soccer balls and rocks banging on every metal object in sight right after sundown.

    The people who live in expensive neighborhoods do not see that. They do not see their bowling ally become a mosque or their neighbors staring them down during a back yard BBqs. I was there and I saw it. What an eye opener.

    In the UK unfortunately all parties are in bed with them. Labor and LibDem need the Muslim vote and the Tories need the Muslim money.

    These fanatics have the funding from KSA and Iran and they can also deliver the votes for Labor in areas they control. This is in my view the greatest sin of multiculturalism. To entrust ethnic leaders to serve our democracy when some of them are openly trying to subvert it.
    It is a disservice to us and them as well as they cannot live as individuals but are beholden to tribal leaders practically propped up by the government.

    So this is the rot of “the state of Denmark”

  29. Alec:

    “Roberta, if only I was younger, I’d be with you. All I can give you is my respect, my support and one other thing – my great grandchildrens’ survival rests upon you and the other young warriors. G-d bless and protect you and all the other young men and women, Jew, Christian and Hindu – let nothing come between you.”

    We will not betray your faith in us. Your respect and understanding is all we need. Knowing that you know we are acting for all of you, makes me happy. Your great grandchildren can rest assured that we will clean the evil from our streets so that they can walk safely and live a clean and happy life. 🙂

    We will not allow our great civilization to be undermined and sent back to a world which we have left in the past many centuries ago. These people don’t really know who they are messing with. We have something that they do not have: The will to survive. 😉

  30. Armaros:

    [You just don’t get it.

    I did not say DO NOT go to EDL demos. What I said was that when doing so do so as individuals.]

    We ARE individuals, who have joined for a COMMON CAUSE. It’s YOU who do not get it.

    [That is not fear but the respect of the fear of others and consideration for their choices as I wish not to make choices for them only myself.]

    Then you could NEVER be a leader, but a follower. A leader must make choices for his/her people too.

    Armaros, please do not try to insult my intelligence or my capability to fight or choose my battles. I know very well that we can only catch flies with honey, but some flies are disease carriers and I have no intentions of catching them. I do not need weak warriors. I do not need those who are already corrupted.

    I have already heard ALL your observations. I have read all your comments and your criticisms, and I have found nothing positive in what you have said, not even a feasible or rational solution, and this is why I said you had no mind for strategy.

    A warrior cannot accept suggestions about tactics from scribes. Can you understand where I am coming from? Unless you have some experience in war, or at least have knowledge of the enemy, your opinions about these things will not matter or be heard. I am not trying to be horrible, I am stating the truth.

    As I said, we the EDL have NO intentions of becoming a political party. I for one am very happy being a fighter. Try to understand that we are all different from one another. What works for you might not work for me. I will only follow my heart in such matters.

    [What I do fear is that Britain will become a big Northern Ireland with riots and tear gas everywhere. I do not blame the EDL for that but the British state. For me the EDL is an effect not a cause.]

    Well, after all these riots and bombings from the IRA, the government was forced to bring them to the table to negotiate, isn’t that so?
    Would they have achieved anything by behaving “peacefully”? The answer is NO.
    Remember, we all have our destinies. We all have our fate. It is up to each and every one of us to do what we think is best for our fellow humans.
    If you are really afraid that Britain will end up like Northern Ireland, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT as well. Do things that you are prepared to do. Speak to your MPs, write articles, spread the truth. You too can help us in different ways. I would not ask a scribe to take up a sword. He would die. But he could write magnificently and perhaps help us keep our swords clean.

    [I am concerned with the violent outbursts (which get 10 x the coverage as the UAFs acts) and the racists trying to take over or discredit/extort your movement which is occurring whether you admit it or not.]

    Don’t be concerned about that. Let US worry about this. We have our own Media. Please be concerned about YOUR country instead and do something to stop the spreading of Islamo-fascism. Then you will be helping us.

    [I hope that the EDL will attract people away from the BNP and the NF.]

    We already are. There is more to the EDL than meets the eye. Trust me on this. We are a very resourceful group. As I said, we are not all hooligans.
    Please take my word for it and kindly stop the criticism. We already have enough. We need support not constant EDL bashing.

    I rather be far RIGHT than far WRONG.

    We will NOT waste our time debunking every single lie that people, media and other low lives say about the EDL. We have important work to do. The debunking lies should be left to those who are afraid to fight. You can help on that. Can you not?

    [For me the EDL is simply a working class manifestation of the same frustrations the intellectuals aware of the jihad problem are grappling with.]

    The EDL is not only working class. We have intellectuals, POLITICIANS, middle class, and many others in our ranks. Please look outside the box. WHO do you think organizes all these things? Who are the BRAINS behind several of our strategies? Please… THINK.

    We know what the problem is. And we know how to fix it. Remember, Rome was not built in a day. EDL is 1 year old!!!!!

    WAIT…

  31. About this article:

    [Self-proclaimed EDL leader Tommy Robinson is really Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, from Bedford.]

    By the way, article writer, don’t be ridiculous. Tommy’s real name is NOT Stephen. There is no excuse now for your idiotic ignorance and your copy cat lies. You read too much media shit.
    He himself has posted a coloured copy of HIS OWN PASSPORT online for all to see.
    If you had “investigated” a little more, you would have know his REAL name by now. This is why I can confidently say that the media is a bunch of LIES, even those in THIS VERY SITE, who are “Jews” and should have at least more intelligence than basing their bullshit on the bullshit of others.

    🙂

    Laughable. I don’t know who this Stephen Lennon guy is but it is DEFINITELY not Tommy. So this also proves he is NOT a member of the BNP.

    Hahhahaha… I seriously cannot believe you quoted the wrong guy! Just for that small detail, the whole article loses credibility!

    Priceless! hahaha

  32. And Tommy is not from Bedford either. LOL!!!

    Shame that those who do not know the truth succumb to such lies.
    You guys are following in the same steps of Muslims, by posting LIES when you should actually do some real investigating work and post the truth.

    “My sword and my courage are my only companions.
    Be your friend’s true friend.
    Return gift for gift.
    Repay laughter with laughter again
    but betrayal with treachery.”

  33. Roberta I appreciate your candor and the useful information your provided.

    I am not British, Canadian actually so for me it is just sad to see a country I love and loved since I first heard the Beatles in 1975 as a toddler to suffer like this. The UK integrated so many people from so many places and has left a tradition and civilization other countries could only dream of.

    You are passionate and honest.

    I am an outsider and I also fight this fight but via different means.

    “Well, after all these riots and bombings from the IRA, the government was forced to bring them to the table to negotiate, isn’t that so?
    Would they have achieved anything by behaving “peacefully”? The answer is NO.”

    I really hope this is not an argument for terrorism, especially against HM and her realm.

    I am a naturalized subject and I swore allegiance to the Queen to get my Canadian passport. It wasn’t handed to me by birth.

    I tend to uphold that oath come hell or high water.

    I don’t want to lecture you but you do fly the flag of King George so you should know where your loyalties lie.

    BTW the Tea Party is not a political party.
    It is a populist movement set up to influence existing political parties.
    The “Party” part of the name comes from the Boston Tea Party.

    As you can see they have been very successful in what they have done.
    They have managed to influence election results and the rising of a new breed of conservative leaders. They did this without breaking a window.
    Yet their HQ was evacuated for a bomb threat last spring.

  34. Armaros:

    [I really hope this is not an argument for terrorism, especially against HM and her realm.]

    Please…. I would not condone terrorism in the slightest. I am pointing out a fact. IF you do want to be heard, you MUST make a higher noise. There are many ways of doing so. Terrorism is against our principles. It’s what we fight against. It’s called SELF – DEFENCE. Please let’s not equate Self-defence with terrorism.

    [I don’t want to lecture you but you do fly the flag of King George so you should know where your loyalties lie.]

    I fly all flags. I would carry the French, the Lebanese, the Iranian, the Turkish, the American, and all other flags if I had a pole big enough!
    My allegiance is to MY HEART, to Justice, to Honour and to Virtue. These do not depend on the country you live in.

    England is my home and this is why I am still here defending it.
    This is all we have, this is why we must defend it at all costs.

    The Tea Party has their methods. We have ours. Both can be as successful as one another. And when you have no links in the government to start with, you must break a few windows to get inside. 😉

  35. if I was in england I would join the EDL in a heartbeat.power is not given to the people it is taken by the people.THIS England This sceptered isle
    is ENGLISH.The government has broken the social contract and has let the nation be invaded by an alien force Islam.you apologists for terrorism are
    the real scum.hope to see you someday on the barricades.the time for talking is through.no Surrender