Guardian

Guardian readers come to the defense of the tragically misunderstood Islamic Republic of Iran


An Iranian-Israeli named Meir Javedanfar penned a piece for CiF (Why Israel is wrong about Iran, June 25) which argued against an Israeli military strike against Iran’s nuclear weapon sites.

While Mr. Javedanfar’s argument certainly leaves much to debate, the most interesting theme in the comment thread pertained to the Iranian apologists it produced – those who see Israel as the root cause of turmoil in the Middle East and evidently don’t care much for criticisms of Iran’s atrocious human rights record, or the truth about their most successful exportterrorism.

Almost comical moral inversion: Iran as “conservative” and “inward looking”. Israelis, in contrast to the introspective Iranians, are zealots. Israel is a state built on terror and expansionism.  (260 Recommends)

The following, seriously making the claim that Iran holds the “moral high ground” in regional and international affairs, is too comical to have been written by a mere Guardian reader alone, as it seems more like a communique from the Iranian Ministry of Information. (88 Recommends)

The world can only hope and pray that Iran reigns in Israel. (25 Recommends)

While only the Guardian would publish a so-called Global Peace Index which places Israel below Iran in terms of peace and human rights, it takes a Guardian reader to actually give such a report credibility. (26 Recommends)

102 replies »

  1. While Mr. Javedanfar’s argument certainly leaves much to debate,

    What do you mean by “certainly” ? that as obedient followers of Bibi & Avigdor we should instinctively understand that every problem facing Israel can be solved by bombing or other violent means ?

    • I’m really confused, MTC. Noting that Javedanfar’s piece leaves much to debate is as benign as a passage gets. Whether to use military force, as a last resort, to prevent the Iranians from acquiring nuclear weapons is a difficult question, one which is very much worth debating. I honestly don’t understand what acknowledging this has to do with being “obedient to Bibi and Avigdor”.

      • Meir makes some good points.

        Israel need not to stop preparing for an attack or give up on one just because it would stop threatening one.

  2. “Israelis don’t need to be paranoid about Iran’s nuclear installations”

    Silly Israelis, being paranoid by an unstable, terror-supporting, radical theocracy led by people who publicly call for its destruction on a weekly basis and denying the occurrence of an event that killed 6 million of them.

    Grow up, Israelis, Meir knows better.

    • You might also note the number of ‘Guardian readers’ who wrote comments arguing against the sentiments expressed above in the 4 comments you’ve picked out of nearly 300, before you try and use this as a representative sample of what ‘Guardian readers’ think.

      And please, as a general piece of advice, be more picky about how you decide what is anti-semitism, and what is opposition to Israeli state policy. You don’t have to tolerate either of them, but at least give a hint that you’re distinguishing between them.

      • Let me get this straight – elsewhere on this site is an article condemning ‘Guardian readers’ for belittling the Holocaust and the Third Reich, because Megan Fox called Michael Bay a ‘little Hitler’, and here’s somebody getting five-starred for comparing The Guardian to a Nazi newspaper? This site’s little circle of self-congratulatory yay-sayers needs to get a sense of proportion and cut out the double standards or it risks reducing its own debate to a screeching caricature, alienating anyone who might have some sympathy with its aims and ideas.

        • “This site’s little circle of self-congratulatory yay-sayers needs to get a sense of proportion and cut out the double standards or it risks reducing its own debate to a screeching caricature, alienating anyone who might have some sympathy with its aims and ideas.”

          Exactly. When this site was born, the regulars were a far more reasonable – and intelligent – bunch.

          Note how the BTL anti-Israel bile on CiF is attribtued to “Guardian readers”, while post defending Israel are not.

      • So, let’s see some examples? If belittling the Holocaust is inherently anti-Semitic, let’s see you offer a side-by-side comparison of some articles from The Guardian and some articles from Der Sturmer. How about one, single example, for starters?

        • Erm … what exactly do you mean by “they were taught never to question the Holocaust”??
          That it never happened? That it e.g. was “only” 5.5 and not 6 million?

          • Said documentary is about perception of anti-Semitism today. That does not answer my question to you.

            • i have found it impossible to conclude that the number is 6.000.000

              Despite a broad and massive consensus among respected historians that the figure reflects the truth?
              Which dodgy websites have you been frequenting?

        • As usual the twisted Pretzel knows nothing of the subject yet perversely feels compelled to argue anyway — and so often in the direction of an apologist for Guardian anti-Semitism.

          • “As usual …” And the fuck are you, Just a Thought. Never seen you before.
            “knows nothing of the subject”?? Did you even check my Google link – which makes a nonsense of your Der Stürmer claim?

            And I am certainly not an “apologist” for any kind of anti-Semitism – as you would know if you actually bothered to read all of my comments.
            In fact: you probably have – which makes you a despicable liar.

            Shame on you.

      • Might it be a good idea to take as a general rule of thumb (ie as a guideline) that:

        * anyone who fails to confine criticism to matters of government policy or blames any shortcomings on Israel’s Jewishness and her attitude to the Arabs/Muslims who want her disappeared;

        * or saying that Israel has no right to exist (ie ignoring the context and history of the creation of the state in order to pursue such an argument)

        * and (see above) shows absolutely no sign of having understood history or context or blatantly lies about it, is nearer to antisemite than antiZionist?

        * Anyone, in fact, who obsessively focuses on Israel’s wrongs real or alleged and ignores the abuses of human rights against their own people by her Arab neighbours,

        * who demands higher standards from Israel than from any of her Arab neighbours (and who gives said Arab neighbours a free pass every time they commit atrocities against Israeli civilians and others) and absolves them from guilt and blame for such atrocities;

        * who denies that Israel has a right to defend her citizenry from attacks by her Arab neighbours;

        * conflates “Jews” with “Israelis” and uses them interchangeably and pejoratively, as do Arabs/Muslims and singles out Israel’s actions as being worthy of criticism because Israel is a Jewish state;

        * Who uses the same antisemitic tropes about Zionism as about mythical “world Jewish power”;

        * Makes light of the threats of annihilation of Israel by Hamas in its Charter, according to which Hamas itself behaves regularly and which is a blue print for the genocide of Jews in Israel, and almost certainly of Israeli Muslims too;

        * shows definite signs at least of ignorance that he/she must make him/herself crystal clear, because Jew-hatred masquerades as antiZionism throughout in the Arab world;

        In short, unless it’s made crystal clear that the critic of Israel knows what he/she is arguing about, can set the criticism within a reasoned context and does not hold Israel to a higher standard than her Arab neighbours, and, most importantly doesn’t slide into blaming any criticism of Israel’s conduct on the fact that she is a Jewish state, then said critic is discriminatory and, according to the content of the criticism and the way in which it is offered, may well be antisemitic too

        And I hope that you hold the Muslim populations in your country to a similarly high standard about pickiness about Islamophobia or….. oh dear…..

      • Ignore the side-track below. I said nothing about questioning the Holocaust. I want to see some examples of comparisons between articles in The Guardian and Der Sturmer that indicate comparable levels of hate, e.g. direct support for genocidal policies, white-supremacy etc. Failing that, I suggest a retraction by ‘Just a Thought’ of his statement to this effect above. Failing that, some indication that the owners of this site do not support his/her comparison – their credibility, not to mention their sincerity when it comes to questions of Holocaust-dismissal, is at stake.

    • As I pointed out on the thread: the word “paranoid” doesn’t appear in the actual article, and that headline might well have been written by an editor. Meir has written many articles warning about Iran, so I think you’re being a bit tough on him.

      • The word “paranoid” appears in the headline of the article. The writer felt it wasn’t enough to argue against an attack on Iran, he also needed to belittle and ridicule Israelis’ very justified fears.

        • The word “paranoid” appears in the headline of the article.

          As I said: we don’t know if the author wrote the headline.
          And in no way did he “belittle and ridicule” Israelis’ very fears – which I, btw, do find “justified”.

  3. Ahmadinejad is not a threat to Jews ..He’s a threat to Zionism !! Ask the Jews who live in Iran why they know the Iranians are not a threat .. Ahmadinejad never denied the Holocaust and he sure as Hell didn’t say he wants to wipe israel off the Map !!

    • ” Ask the Jews who live in Iran why they know the Iranians are not a threat”

      Sure. That’s why 80% of Iran’s Jews fled their homeland of more than two millennia, and why the remaining ar held hostage and persecuted.

      • Held hostage and persecuted ?? Where’s your proof !! I bet your one of those sad people who want Israel to bomb Iran and trigger WWIII because thats what will happen .. Russia and China are losing patience with the Wests interference in the middle East and Persia !!

  4. Owain, now I come to think of it, Iran is a utopia of love and understanding for the Jewish people. There is probably no place in the world they would rather live, with the exception of Swansea of course. And you know what, I’m going to ask them, just like you suggested, just to make sure. Zionist chicanery, had me going about Ahmadinejad’s obsessive eliminationist anti-Semitism for a moment there. Thanks for setting things straight.

    • At least Iran doesn’t go around firing White Phosphorus shells at innocent civilians .. Iran hasn’t waged war in 300 years so in that respect Iran is a veritable Utopia unlike that Hell hole dystopia on stolen land !!

      • Right now Iran is waging war against Yemen, against Israel on 3 fronts, aganst Argentinian Jews, against stable Sunni regimes across the MIdeast, and against its own people.

        Perhaps few days in an Iranian prison would straighten this troll out.

      • Oh give over do.

        Can’t you deal with criticism without resorting to that old chestnut?

        I note your moniker is about a Welsh freedom fighter. He must be spinning in his grave.

        HAMAS fired white phosphorous, too, in its recent barrage against Israel.

        So what’re you going to do? Hmm?

        “Dystopia on stolen land, eh?”

        Well, congrats, THAT cannot have come out of a PSC handbook – they wouldn’t know what a dystopia was ….

        But then neither do you, obviously.

        As for:

        “Iran hasn’t waged war in 300 years….”???

        Well, it certainly did what it does best, against fellow Muslims in Iraq from 1980 to 1988. If that wasn’t a war, then you obviously wouldn’t know one if you were sitting in the middle of it.

        And here is what the government of your “veritable Utopia” thought was a great thing to do during that war:

        “During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran’s forces were no match for Saddam Hussein’s professional, well-armed military. To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around each child’s neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them.

        “At one point, however, the earthly gore became a matter of concern. “In the past,” wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettelaat as the war raged on, “we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the minefields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone.” Such scenes would henceforth be avoided, Ettelaat assured its readers. “Before entering the minefields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves.

        “… The chief combat tactic employed by the Basiji was the human wave attack, whereby barely armed children and teenagers would move continuously toward the enemy in perfectly straight rows. It did not matter whether they fell to enemy fire or detonated the mines with their bodies: The important thing was that the Basiji continue to move forward over the torn and mutilated remains of their fallen comrades, going to their deaths in wave after wave. Once a path to the Iraqi forces had been opened up, Iranian commanders would send in their more valuable and skilled Revolutionary Guard troops.

        See http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/ahmadinejads-demons

        Also http://riverbanker.blogspot.com/2007/11/kaveh-golestan-terry-lloyd-and-iran.html

        And http://www.indopedia.org/index.php?title=Iran-Iraq_war

        A veritable Utopia for children, eh?

        • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia

          When will you get it into your thick head that it was Iraq who started that war with the West’s backing .. Lets see where the West was on all of this whilst saddam was Gassing the Iranian’s and Kurds .. They said and did nothing but they soon stepped in when Saddam started to attack the Gulf fleet of Tankers .. The US was quick to intervene and Kuwait re registered their ships so they were able to fly the Stars and stripes .. Iran was winning the war up until that point .. the USA’s intervention ensured the War would end in a stale mate .. Shortly after Saddam with the USA’s blessing invaded Kuwait and we all know what happened after that don’t we ??

          • Ooh, we ARE a tad tired and emotional aren’t we owain? Have you had your nap yet?

            If you read ALL the history and its context, you will find that it little matters who started the war – and given your showing here previously I wouldn’t trust you to relay any information truthfully – you will find that it was, as wars between Arabs/Muslims usually are, useless and achieved little.

          • owainglyndwr16,

            Plus the islamofascist regime of iran used their own children to clear mine fields. The children were first given plastic keys to “paradise” to sooth their fears.

            They will die for the mullahs and ayatollahs, but they’ll get to “paradise”.

            The islamofascist regime is a sick, depraved death cult.

          • “Nobodies” (sic) perfect, true, but there’s a helluva difference between deliberately forcing children (by brainwashing or other means) to put themselves in danger as Islamists did in Iran and still do in Gaza and elsewhere and, whereas I suspect in the American civil war, didn’t discourage them from enlisting, I would lay odds that it didn’t mess with children’s heads in the way that these Islamists did.

            Islamists/Arabs, let’s face it, view their children as their possessions, to be disposed of at will. Wafa Sultan goes into great detail about how children are perceived in Arab countries in this fashion.

            And look at this. The child is reciting by rote:

            http://www.rottengods.com/2010/07/basij-iranian-radical-martyrs.html

            And the following from an Iranian textbook of the time, smacks of the hate-filled bile taught to Palestinian children:

            ““Defensive jihad is incumbent upon every one. The young and the old, men and women, everyone, absolutely everyone, must take part in this sacred battle, fight to the best of his or her abilities or assist our fighters…If colonialists outside the borders of the country interfere in the affairs of Islamic countries through their agents inside the country, the religion of Islam does not permit Muslims to remain silent and watch the foreigners pillage and plunder but orders them to rise up and strive with all their might to defeat the enemy and liberate their country. This too is a defensive jihad and is incumbent upon everyone.”

            Give it up. You make yourself into an animal by defending these excuses for human beings

      • owainglyndwr16,

        Your islamofascist regime just

        – hangs gay teens from construction cranes
        – stones women to death for adultery
        – has “sharia police” to enforce dress codes
        – issues genocidal threats against non-islamofascist countries
        – engaged in an 8 year war with a fellow Muslim regime
        – uses its own children to clear mine fields by walking through them
        – denies that there are any homosexuals in all of the islamofascist regime
        – murders people in the islamofascist regime who oppose the ayatollahs
        – sends a passenger plane on suicide mission
        – is doing everything possible to start WW3 as a means to hasten the return of the imaginary 12th Imam.
        – is doing everything possible to start WW3 as a means to trigger the retaliatory destructon of Mecca

        The Shah, the Devil they knew, has been replaced by the Devil they now know, the non-Persian Arab Ahmadinejad.

  5. O16
    ” Iran has not waged war in 300 years ”
    I think you will find the Iraqis might have something to say on that subject given the combined losses of close to a million during the 8 years of war .
    Aside from that , Iran has been fighting a global war of terror through its proxies for the past 30 years
    Iran is a totalitarian theocracy which sees fit to rig elections , murder protestors on the streets , execute gays and stone adulterers to death .
    Oh and yes the ayotollahs are rabidly antisemitic in denying the holocaust and calling for another when calling for israels removal from the pages of history .
    Although of course you and your ilk will put that down to a mere misunderstanding ,something lost in translation so to speak .

    • Iraq started that war .. The US shot down an Iranian Airline as well .. You provide proof that Ahmadinejad said he wanted to wipe Israeli’s off the face of the Earth and that he denied the Holocaust or shut thee fuck up as I’m not in the mood for your sick games !!
      I’ll provide the transcripts of his speeches after you have covered your sorry ass !!

      • Iran hasn’t waged war for 300 years,instead it pays others to wage war for it.Iran’s filthy and blood stained fingers are everywhere on this earth where they can shit-stir.They lurk in the shadows pulling the strings of their puppets.Iranians are in Syria helping that homicidal manic called Assad,helping him slaughter his own people.

        They don’t fire phosphorous shells,not yet anyway.Instead they hang gays,encourage their jail wardens and prisoners to rape anyone that dares to question them.

        Iran would have to be the largest prison on earth,it shares that distinction,and is in good company with Cuba and North Korea…..

        The Iranian Mullahs are a demented sick nasty evil lot that devour their young……………

        The only ones who don’t want to see Iran as the evil place that is,are the Guardian and it’s morally twisted posters…….

        • Ask the Jews that live in Iran…….You mean that there are still Jews living in Iran,the ones that haven’t managed to escape that shit hell-hole,the ones that weren’t yet hanged on trumped up charges.

          It’s true that Iran is an Utopia,an Utopia for that simian Ahmadinejad and the Merry Mullahs……..

        • But there are plenty of articles @ the Guardian that criticse the Iranian regime. Likewise BTL posters – are they also “morally twisted”?

      • Oh dear, we are swearing now. Obviously can’t take the truth.
        Perhaps you should go and lie down?
        You’ve been rumbled as a know-nothing. Must be very painful.

        • Oh dear, we are swearing now. Obviously can’t take the truth.

          Do you make the same challenge to those many “pro-Israel” people here who repeatedly post expletive ad hominems against those they disagree with? I think not. What about Hoi Polloi or Derek Pasquill?

          Why is that, SarahLeah?

            • Evidently not a good aim … please don’t learn to drive as there’s enough carnage on the roads !!

      • fascist owainglyndwr16,

        The islamofascist regime of iran purposely put the passenger plane in harms way. The plane did not respond to orders to change course.

        The Soviet Union purposely shot down passenger plane Korean Air KAL 007.

        DEATH to the islamofascist regime of iran!!!

  6. And there was Spoutwell’s since deleted reference to Israel as a “colonialist construct”.

    But hang on. You have turned richardoxford’s “Let us hope Iranian power can restrain Israel” into “The world can only hope and pray that Iran reigns in Israel”!!

    That is simply ridiculous.

  7. How old are you Owain? You seem to be throwing a teenage hissy fit. Are you misunderstood? Is your brotherly love for the Iranian regime and the rest of humanity twisted by those warmongering, child murdering, christ killing white phosphorous using Zionists?

  8. Wow. In the brief time since I posted my comments, they’ve all got loads of thumbs down – many way up the thread and not immediately apparent to anyone checking out the thread! You could almost think there’s a bunch of supremely childish posters tracking them down via the “recent comments” column on the left!

    What a hoot!

  9. Adam:

    I’m really confused, MTC. Noting that Javedanfar’s piece leaves much to debate is as benign as a passage gets. Whether to use military force, as a last resort, to prevent the Iranians from acquiring nuclear weapons is a difficult question, one which is very much worth debating. I honestly don’t understand what acknowledging this has to do with being “obedient to Bibi and Avigdor”.

    Yes indeed, it is very much worth debating. But when you read the comments of the CifWatch faithful, you see that nobody wants to “debate” the point; all comments are very critical of Javendanfar’s position. So what is the alternative, other than bombing ?

    Furthermore, on this web site no passage can be regarded as “benign”; all statements must be subjectively analyzed for the minutest hint of … what exactly ? “Attacked the cities”, for example (as opposed to “settlements”, “military”, etc). You are not the only one that is confused.

    • MTC, note that we didn’t publish a post critical of Javedanfar’s piece – namely because we have to pick and choose our battles and most of us recognize that Javedanfar is a passionate Zionist who simply holds a view about how best to deal with the Iranian nuke issue that represents the minority view. That is, while I don’t agree with him, I’m not going to attack him either. If folks who comment here wish to be more critical of Javedanfar than I am that’s their prerogative – just as its your right to respond to their critiques.

      • Adam:

        Why do you think that it represents the “minority view” ? So now you are confirming what I originally wrote: the instinctive reaction that all problems can be solved by bombing (or other use of force).

  10. You really are a piece of work, aren’t you?

    When has Israel brainwashed its young into hatred?

    Do Israeli school textbooks teach that their readers should want to grow up to explode themselves among Arabs?

    Do Israelis pile into public places and rejoice whenever Arabs get killed?

    Or massacre families or behead them?

    For heaven’s sake, if you going to come back here and complain and whinge at least compare like with like!

    There’s one helluva difference between what you might call infringements of human rights, and brainwashing little children into hatred and wanting to die and kill, using the media to reinforce the message.

    Now for heaven’s sake, go and have that nap. You remind me of a tired and emotional toddler

      • Israeli children ARE hated. Hamas BEHAVES that hatred, supported by twonks like you. That’s why Iran’s little brothers in Hamas time the launching of their rockets and other missiles from Gaza to coincide with their break times at school, and when they are going to or from school and fire at plainly marked school buses.

        How, other than acts of hatred, can these be defined? As the equivalent of love letters?

        Oh yes, and launching those missiles from playgrounds, houses and schoolyards. They sure love their people, don’t they?

        But hang on a minute…. don’t they brag about loving death more than life and that the elderly and women and children make the best human shields? See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

        See http://www.bravejeworld.com/2011/04/hamas-target-school-bus.html

        If Hamas was an individual he’d be a candidate for locked ward in a secure hospital because of the danger he posed to society.

  11. Owainglyndwr16 is probably an arrival from Stormfront. But don’t let that worry you—according to MindTheC**p, a hail (or heil) of Stormfronters storming CiFWatch isn’t the problem here, but posters supporting the “West Bank settlements” (=Jewish inhabitations in Judea and Samaria, in non-revisionist language) are.

    Values and priorities. Everyone needs to get right their values and priorities. Ask MTC and he’ll tell you how.

  12. Oooh! “Western propagandists,” eh?

    Do YOU know how many scientists have been murdered in Iran by Mossad? (Note: I don’t mean according to the usual “Hidden Hand” nonsense which obtains in Muslim countries or in your messed-up brain). Come back with hard verifiable facts, if you aren’t too far gone to recognise them.

    For most of us, whatever good you may think Iran does, the following more than nullifies it:

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Commentary_How_Schoolchildren_Are_Brainwashed_In_Iran/2054304.html

    It smacks of the methods of their little brothers in Gaza, render both equally beneath contempt of the civilised world, and make sure that, if such things are allowed to persist, the loathsome cultures which spawned them will finally die out.

  13. owainglyndwr16,

    Are you STILL upset that your side LOST WW2?

    Good.

    BTW, do you think that Mecca is off limits for a retaliatory strike of total destruction if the US or India or Israel suffer a nuke attack?

    • Are you still pissed that Russia won WWII … Who reached Berlin first ? A bit like Scott of the antartic realizing he had been beaten .. So what did America do as revenge ? They starved to death 2 million German prisoners of war ..

      Here’s a fact .. Patton lost the war of the Generals .. He blamed Montgomery !!

      • what’s with these Russia loving antisemites…

        I guess the Jews caused the loss of the cold war…. oh well… life goes on…

  14. owainglyndwr16,

    I’m glad that the Soviet Socialists took revenge on your national Socialist filth. Payback for Stalingrad.

    It must suck that the “untermenchen” kicked “ubermenchen” ass…

    AND that the Israelis are not the unarmed Jews of WW2 nazi filth infested Europe.

    Get out your hankies owainglyndwr16. Pass the above URL to buddies at stormfront.

  15. We could take out / our own refuse
    But that be hard / and what’s the use
    Let’s just cut out / a few ends loose
    All we need is / blame the Juice

    Chorus:
    The Juice! The Juice!
    Just blame the Juice!
    When all else screws
    Just blame the Juice!

    We could take pains / to cook the goose
    But that take time / but I got news
    Let’s just employ / our useful ruse
    Nothing so easy / as blame the Juice

    (Chorus)

    We could set out / to hunt a moose
    But that require / the skill of crews
    Let’s just rejoice / I got good news
    An option comes: / to blame the Juice

    (Chorus)

    We could grow fields / by threes and twos
    But that break neck / and body abuse
    Let’s just take heart / while joy renews
    I found the key / you blame the Juice

    (Chorus)

  16. Israeli children ARE hated. Hamas BEHAVES that hatred, supported by twonks like you. That’s why Iran’s little brothers in Hamas time the launching of their rockets and other missiles from Gaza to coincide with their break times at school, and when they are going to or from school and fire at plainly marked school buses.

    How, other than acts of hatred, can these be defined? As the equivalent of love letters?

    Oh yes, and launching those missiles from playgrounds, houses and schoolyards. They sure love their people, don’t they?

    But hang on a minute…. don’t they brag about loving death more than life and that the elderly and women and children make the best human shields? See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

    See http://www.bravejeworld.com/2011/04/hamas-target-school-bus.html

    If Hamas was an individual he’d be a candidate for locked ward in a secure hospital because of the danger he posed to society.

    And just in case any passer by should want an operational definition of what constitutes Jew-hatred masquerading as hatred of Israel, (see my operational guidelines above) he/she need only look at your posts at 10.28am, and the one above about “kikes”

    Bye bye

    Something tells me that your star has burned out.

  17. Shw mai Glyndwr

    I have n’t posted on here for a long time but I do read it.

    I feel compelled to post in response to you – you are well into the realm of anti semitic abuse. You should pull back and reconsider. There are several abusive posters here who should also consider the perspective they are presenting as it casts a nasty light on the very things you seek to protect.

    I am not a supporter of the violent or extremist settlers any more than I support Hamas or indeed any extremists. I include in this extremists in their thinking – religious, ethnic or nationalist – because they help to make the bullets for the violent ones to fire.

    Lost my log in so to identify myself – Leni

    • “I am not a supporter of the violent or extremist settlers any more than I support Hamas or indeed any extremists.”

      But you are a supporter of the disgusting moral equivalence rampant in our day and age. Comparing people who build homes to terrorists who raise their their own kids to aspire to be suicide-murderers? Have you no decency?!

      “I include in this extremists in their thinking – religious, ethnic or nationalist…”

      Whatever. I do remembrance to the 100,000,000 dead in the name of the non-religious, supra-ethnic and anti-nationalist ideology of Marxism. My point? It’s time to leave all those “silver bullets” in the search for preventing atrocities. If a group of people are hell-bent on committing the unspeakable, no amount of reasoning or education is going to stop them. The duty, therefore, is for everyone to do the utmost to guard against being on the receiving end. Harsh but true.

  18. Ooer… this little piggy has read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

    And has swallowed them whole which is a dead giveaway of an antisemite acco

    Remember owaing, just because people say you are paranoid, that doesn’t mean that others aren’t out to get you……

  19. Fancy, I doubt that he can

    He’s shaken his bottle of pop and the cork has blown off and the JUICE is all over the place.

  20. ziontruth, spot on

    It’s a wonder that Fancy hasn’t a sore behind from sitting on the fence

  21. Zion and snigger

    your responses are pretty much what I expected.

    As it happens I do not support moral relativism – it is all too often used to excuse acts of violence and repression. It is akin to the “He made me do it Miss” we hear so often from children.

    I’m not a fencesitter either – you do not help yourself by making wild assumptions about people.

    Anyway – I didn’t come for an argument.

    • “…you do not help yourself by making wild assumptions about people.”

      I made no assumption—I went on nothing more than what you’d written.

    • Welcome back to CifWatch ! As you can see nothing has changed and there has probably been a change for the worse. Don’t expect a serious discussion here – this crowd is only interested in seeing who can post the most disgusting insult.

      • “…and there has probably been a change for the worse.”

        You are referring to the arrival of the troll from Stormfront, right? Right?

    • “Help myself” as regards what, Fancy?

      I am glad that by the same token you don’t support Hamas, who say that Israel makes them turn their children into suicide murderers.

      If you’re not on the fence, where are you precisely?

      I’d genuinely like to know.

      I mean, perhaps you’re one of these people who might think that the “Israel problem” could be solved by locating the Jewish homeland some place else – you know I even heard of an idiot once who advocated that the Jews be relocated to Birobidzhan, established by Stalin in 1934 as a “Jewish autonamous region”

      Honestly, the tripe some people spout!

    • What can I say, people? This is beyond parody. Even my Juice Song can no longer do it justice.

  22. Owain, that’s the spirit, get into your macho stride and say like you mean it; you don’t like Jews, you are a proud anti-Semite, and that you are a miserable individual spawned from a culture steeped in hate, lies and murder, and you deserve the marriage you have made with your spiteful delusions.

    And for MTC and Mostly Harmless, our Stormfront admirer has exposed the common interface that you share with the extreme right, where if it wasn’t for his obvious anger management problems, we wouldn’t be able to put a cigarette paper between yours and his narrative on Israel and the libels you deploy against the Zionist enemy. But I suppose that’s the difference between being proud of your chauvinistic, racist right-wing ancestors, and disowning them in the name of liberal progress, whilst still harbouring the same visceral prejudices that fuels your obsession with the Jewish collective.

    • So constructive i must say .. If you haven’t figured it out yet i find attacks on me amuzing to say the least .. you remind me of one of those troublesome school children who would always be fidgeted and uninterested in what your teacher was trying to fill your head with .. The content of the discussion doesn’t seem to attract your attention ,,instead you prefer to come out with “Words” Words that are pointless as those words are directed at someone who is only interested in constructing meaningful discussion no matter how contentious so unless you have anything constructive to say i suggest God knows what !! Whatever !

  23. Owain, speaking of which, after your candid expose into the depths of your hatred, can we take it that your intimate knowledge on the happiness of Iranian Jewry be taken with a pinch of salt?

  24. Most of the cases of rape in Scandinavia are carried out by Muslims,this is a documented fact.These rapists say that Muslim law allows them to rape non Muslim women.Most of the pimps in the EU/UK are Muslims………..

    Muslim men in the UK are grooming British teenage girls for sex,they ply them with drugs and shower them with gifts,only to use them as sex objects.This too is a documented fact……

    Most of the drug importers and dealers in the EU/UK are once again Muslims… ..Another documented fact……What’ not to love about these “humans”……

  25. Time to ignore this idiot,he is not worth wasting any more time on.
    He must be using the Asylums computers,soon he will be returned to his padded cell and dream of his next escape…………….

  26. Hello again snigger

    Israelis should live in Israel – where else should they go ?

    the ‘Jewish Autonomous Region’ you speak of is reviving now after the depredation visited upon it by Stalin. I am pleased the people there are prospering. The people there had a hard time in the past – I wish them a successful future.

    Israel is an established country and should remain so. The nature of the society it builds is a matter for the Israeli people – there is a lot of internal debate, some of it acrimonious.

    Just for you to be certain – I see no reason at all why the Jewish people should not have a state of their own built on the traditional values of Jewish culture which respects its roots, history, language and religion whist at the same time respecting and valuing other ethnic or religious groups who also hold citizenship..

    The subject of this thread is response to Iran – I have some thoughts on it but there seems little point in expressing them as whatever I say will be met with hostility.