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Palmer Report Conclusion: Israel’s blockade of Gaza is LEGAL & consistent with international law


The New York Times has obtained a copy of the UN Palmer Report – a 105 page document which will be released on Friday – which finds that Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza is “LEGAL“, “appropriate”, consistent with international law, and that IDF Naval forces have the right to stop Gaza-bound ships in international waters.

While the report was also critical of some of the tactics used by the IDF in defending themselves from IHH terrorists, it also stated quite unambiguously that their use of force was morally justified, and noted that when Israeli commandos boarded the main ship they faced “organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers” and were therefore required to use force for their own protection.

The report also is hard on the IHH sponsored flotilla, Mavi Marmara, asserting that it “acted recklessly in attempting to breach the naval blockade.”

While the report certainly isn’t one-sided, and indeed includes some criticism of Israel pertaining to the way the IDF Navy responded to the violence on board the Mavi Marmara, it simply can no longer be honestly claimed, by anti-Israel activists or Guardian/CiF commentators, that the blockade enforced by the Israeli Navy to prevent arms from being smuggled into Gaza is in breach of international law.

As such, we can expect the Guardian – whose coverage of the flotilla incident represented an egregiously reckless, biased journalistic rush to judgment – to either downplay or totally ignore the report’s findings. 

No word yet on whether Guardian cartoonists Martin Rowson or Steve Bell will revise their fictitious, defamatory and hideous caricatures of Israeli behavior on that fateful day.

Martin Rowson, Guardian, June 5, 2010

Steve Bell, Guardian, June 2, 2010

Steve Bell, Guardian, June 1, 2010

65 replies »

  1. Strange how the report admits that the IDF faced significant and organized violence, yet goes on to say they acted disproportionately with their evidence being the fact that some of the dead had been shot in the back, at close range or multiple times.

    Surely, in light of the violence they faced, it is not unreasonable for the commando to shoot multiple times and given the fact that they were being beaten at close range, it makes sense that they would be… shot at close range, as for being shot in the back, we’ll never know, it just seems that saying they faced such premeditated violence kind of negates the whole ‘disproportionate force’ stuff, seems like this was included to appease Turkey.

    • To expand on this, I’m reading through the report and the panels conclusions, they accept that the commandos boarding were faced with significant organized violence and were captured (as opposed to being taken for medical care), and that they had to resort to force for the safety of themselves and their fellow soldiers, so again, surely this means that the force used was ‘proportionate’?

      Indeed after explaining that they met violence and organized resistance, the report goes on to say “The Panel concludes that there has been no adequate explanation provided for the nine deaths or why force was used to the extent that it produced such high levels of injury.” – focus on the latter part of that, surely the fact that they faced organized violence, is the reason why extensive force was used? Am I missing something here?

    • It is a very strange statement within the context of a report that otherwise, justifies Israel’s actions.

      Israel has got so used to heavily anti Israel biased statements emanating from the UN that this one is a definite victory for law and common sense. I suppose that down the time line, we will have disclosures about how that sentence using ‘disproportionate’ was used especially after the report agrees that some of the ‘peace activists’ had intentions the opposite from peaceful activity.

    • the commandos were faulted for shooting multiple times and also for shooting a single time, as some of the dead only had one entry wound

      commandos are crack shots, and they are trained to shoot to kill if threatened…not wound

      if the shooting had been premeditated, they would surely have killed and wounded many more than they did

  2. Turkey in warning to Israel: You have one day to apologize for Gaza flotilla raid

    Could be interesting to know what is their plan B? A second genocide of Armenians? An other illegal land grab in Cyprus? To bomb some more Kurdish civilians in Turkey or Irak?

    Snoopy on Simply Jews wrote on his blog:

    Some time ago, after a fresh Turkish ultimatum to Syria, delivered by Mr Erdogan, where he demanded that Baby Assad stop the bloodshed in 10 to 15 days, I have asked:

    Or what?.

    Yesterday, Mr Abdullah Gul, the Turkish president, decided that 18 days that passed since are enough waiting for me and answered:
    We are really very sad.
    I think that being sad at Syria without prior notice is a cruel and unusual punishment that should be covered by some convention.

    • Bad timing on the “apology” demand, since the report just shows that Turkey has far more to apologize for than Israel. Remember, if the blockade is legal, than breaking it is illegal. So the flotilliers are criminals and Turkey is an accessory to a crime.

  3. Everything Israel has been maintaining about the legality of the blockade, the nature of IHH, and the proper way to provide (unneeded, IMO) humanitarian assistance to Gaza is borne out by the Palmer Panel.

    Page 3:

    The Panel finds:

    ii. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.

    (Straight from the mouth of the UN to the columns of CiF and its sea lawyers!!)

    iv. Although people are entitled to express their political views, the flotilla acted recklessly in attempting to breach the naval blockade. The majority of the flotilla participants had no violent intentions, but there exist serious questions about the conduct, true nature and objectives of the flotilla organizers, particularly IHH. The actions of the flotilla needlessly carried the potential for escalation.

    Page 5:

    The Panel recommends:

    iv. All humanitarian missions wishing to assist the Gaza population should do so through established procedures and the designated land crossings in consultation with the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

  4. In the book of dubitante – the antisemite de jour on Cifwatch – the UN – yesterday the highhest legal authority now took a wrong turn and became the slave of the international Zionist cospiracy.

    • The Turks can take a hike,don’t apologize,don’t pay compensation,we are not the Kurds that the Turks,bomb,persecute,and grind into dust…..

      The Turks need us just as much as we need them,they go on these fishing expeditions,trying to intimidate,and trying to extract as much as possible from us….

      Don’t fold EFF them….

  5. Now it is Israels turn to ask Turkey to apologize and pay compensation.

    At the same time that this happens all the pigs in Turkey will start flying………………..

    • “all the pigs in Turkey will start flying………………..”

      Erdogan can take to the air first.

  6. The Guardian must have recruited their “cartoonists” from an asylum…………These cartoons are very similar to each other lots of bums,and condoms (the British are obsessed with bums) lots of blood and guts,another obsession……………..

  7. What I wonder is whether or not Turkey’s vocal population are going to demonstrate in large numbers asking their government to be accounted for the dead? this is, after all, what would have happened in Israel in such an event. there are examples of this throughout Israel’s history…

  8. I am not going to come out in support of UN because of one “favourable” report. It is organisation totally compromised by muslim states who work tirelessly against freedom and liberty.

    UN building in NY should be demolished and all evidence of its existence should be erased.

    • I have far more respect for that view point than the people who will ignore everything the UN says until they agree with something.

      Picking your evidence then formulating your opinions is far more honest than formulating your opinions then selecting your evidence.

        • I think that on the Flotilla I’m somewhere in the middle, but ultimately my opinion doesn’t matter.

          I don’t agree with Turkey that the flotilla was filled with pacifist humanitarians with daisies in their hair, and I don’t agree with Israel that it was filled with terrorists.

          As the report states it can’t give a definitive legal or factual opinion, the most authoritative report from the legal and factual standpoint is the earlier UN report.

          The law on blockades is quite difficult, and especially so in the case of Gaza. The key legal questions are:

          – Should the naval blockade be considered in isolation, or as part of the wider policy of closure.
          – Has the humanitarian impact of the blockade exceeded the concrete military advantage.

          If Turkey takes it to the ICJ, we will have a definitive opinion. If Palestine is recognised at the UN, it’s possible that it may be tackled as part of a series of legal remedies against Israel.

          Israel absolutely should be stopping arms from getting into Gaza, but, obviously, arms come into Gaza via the tunnels, not via sea, and it also needs to make sure that the impact on the civilian population isn’t excessive.

  9. I was hoping that the Palmer report would offer a definitive legal opinion, but instead it has muddied the waters. I’ve only been able to read about half of it so far, but there are numerous problems with it.

    I should say that I believe that Israel is not only entitled, but actually obligated under international law to mount a naval blockade of Gaza. On this point, I disagree with Turkey.

    The report has muddied the waters in a number of ways. First of all, it draws its conclusion based only on the information provided by Turkey and Israel, whose accounts are going to be understandably biased, and also because Israel confiscated and has withheld almost all of the independent and uncensored evidence.

    To underline this evidentiary limitation, the report unequivocally states that “the Panel cannot make definitive findings either of fact or law”.

    The earlier UN report, by comparison, drew from a much wider information base.

    Secondly, whilst Palmer was an excellent choice, whose idea was it to have Uribe as vice chair? A known prolific human rights violator who has previously equated human rights activists with terrorist sympathisers!

    Offering a definitive legal opinion would have drawn a line under the affair, but I fear that the restricted information set, the sheer lack of information, the fact they interviewed no one, the fact that they expressly state that they can’t give a definitive opinion – I think we know less than we did yesterday.

    • I understand your frustration dubi.

      I fear that the restricted information set, the sheer lack of information,…

      You have to realize that the subject of this article is not the Goldstoner report…

      Secondly, whilst Palmer was an excellent choice, whose idea was it to have Uribe as vice chair? A known prolific human rights violator who has previously equated human rights activists with terrorist sympathisers!

      A much better choice than the black hanging and whipping human rights champion Judge Goldstone or prof. Chinkin who advertised her verdict before even starting her “investigation”.

      BTW regarding Uribe whose father was killed by FARC terrorists….

      A known prolific human rights violator…

      According to Wikipedia “As senator, he served as president of the Seventh Commission and he supported laws dealing with reform of pensions, labor and social security, as well as promotion of administrative careers, cooperative banking, black sugar, and protection for women.

      Maybe he violated your pals in killing their female relatives? What a cruel person…

      I have far more respect for that view point than the people who will ignore everything the UN says until they agree with something.

      I agree. I wouldn’t give a used condom about anything the UN says.

      • “A much better choice than the black hanging and whipping human rights champion Judge Goldstone or prof. Chinkin who advertised her verdict before even starting her “investigation”.”

        Goldstone was a judge. A senior, respected jurist, not a law maker. We don’t hold American judges responsible for condemning black men to death, they are interpreting the law.

        The Fact Finding Mission led by Goldstone wasn’t even quasi-judicial, there was no verdict, just the establishment of facts. Inconvenient as they may be.

        “According to Wikipedia”

        A definitive source of ever there was one.

        For wider reading, I suggest…

        http://bit.ly/oF9HgM

        • “According to Wikipedia”

          A definitive source of ever there was one.

          Do you have any proof to prove that this paragraph about Uribe is false?
          If not please STFU.

          Goldstone was a judge. A senior, respected jurist, not a law maker. We don’t hold American judges responsible for condemning black men to death, they are interpreting the law.

          I didn’t hear any contemporary American judge to condemn anybody to whipping. The Nazi judges interpreted the law too…

          • “Do you have any proof to prove that this paragraph about Uribe is false? If not please STFU.”

            I didn’t say it was false, just incomplete. His record on human rights violations is pretty well documented.

            “I didn’t hear any contemporary American judge to condemn anybody to whipping. The Nazi judges interpreted the law too…”

            Does the US have whipping available as a punishment? Being a judge is about interpreting and applying a body of law. It’s not about making the law.

            Given he is a proud Zionist Jew, where were your condemnations of him before he led the Fact Finding Mission?

            • Being a judge is about interpreting and applying a body of law. It’s not about making the law.

              Dubi are you justifying the actions of the Nazi blood-judges? Why I’m not surprised?

              Given he is a proud Zionist Jew, where were your condemnations of him before he led the Fact Finding Mission?

              He’s exactly the sam kind of proud Zionist jew like you.
              BTW I never heard of him before his fact-hiding mission, but was active in the international anti-apartheid movement so an enemy of Goldstone.

              • “Dubi are you justifying the actions of the Nazi blood-judges? Why I’m not surprised?”

                Behold the foaming-at-the-mouth straw man. Are you comparing American Judges to the “Nazi blood-judges?” Why am I not surprised?

                “He’s exactly the sam kind of proud Zionist jew like you.”

                In his own words, he has lived his entire life for Israel. I would never utter anything so tragic.

                “I…was active in the international anti-apartheid movement so an enemy of Goldstone.”

                Do you oppose Israel’s apartheid policies? Or is that different?

                “Goldstone’s contribution to South Africa’s peaceful transition from repression to democracy and justice has been quite indispensable. His accounts of the Goldstone Commission and the tribunals are riveting and his raison d’être for the international criminal court is persuasive.”—Archbishop Desmond M. Tutu

                That thug!

                • American judges condemned criminals to death irrespective of their color, Goldstone did it to blacks only. No American judge in the XX century would dream about condemning someone to whipping as Goldstone did.
                  Behold the foaming-at-the-mouth straw man.
                  You certainly don’t read your own posts. You justified Goldstone’s actions saying that he didn’t make the laws only interpreted them. So what is the difference between him and the Nazi judges? Did they make the laws? They are only interpreted and applied them.
                  In his own words, he has lived his entire life for Israel. I would never utter anything so tragic.
                  In your own words you are certainly not a full-blown Jew hater but a decent human being. So what? The reality is something objective doesn’t depend on your subjective delusions.
                  Do you oppose Israel’s apartheid policies? Or is that different?,
                  Yes there is a difference dubi. Israel has no apartheid policies but laws giving every citizen the same rights irrespective of their religion, race and gender.
                  Archbishop Desmond M. Tutu
                  That thug!,

                  No he’s not a thug you are exaggerating. He’s only an asshole with an idiotic angelic smile blessed with a very deeply rooted hate of the Jews.

                  • “American judges condemned criminals to death irrespective of their color, Goldstone did it to blacks only. ”

                    Can you give an instance where he acted incorrectly as a judge?

                    “You justified Goldstone’s actions saying that he didn’t make the laws only interpreted them. So what is the difference between him and the Nazi judges? Did they make the laws? ”

                    The difference should be obvious. I’m told that comparing a Jew to Nazis is anti-Semitic. Does that only apply to “good” Jews?

                    “Israel has no apartheid policies but laws giving every citizen the same rights irrespective of their religion, race and gender.”

                    Really? So the law of return applies to Muslims as much as Jews? The state spends as much per child on Arab children as it does per child on Jewish children? An Arab would have no more trouble than a Jew in buying property?

                    And, of course, apartheid, meaning “separation” – Israel doesn’t build walls to separate Arab villages, Arab farmers from their land etc?

                    • I don’t know about in South Africa, but there is some evidence that he indicted an alleged Serbian war criminal who was literally a storybook character.

                      Goldstone headed the Office of the Prosecutor for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY)

                      The problem for NATO forces in tracking down the serial rapist was that Gruban from Bijelo Polje, also known as Gruban Malic, is a fictional character, established by the United Nations in 1993. In 1995, one year into his term as chief ICTY prosecutor, Goldstone presented an indictment of several Serbs for war crimes and crimes against humanity. As brought to light in the weekend edition of the Hebrew-language Makor Rishon newspaper, among those indicted was a man identified as “Gruban”.

                      Gruban, later identified more fully as Gruban from Bijelo Polje, was charged with viciously raping Muslim prisoners in what was identified by the prosecution as essentially a Serbian concentration camp. His crimes were given weight by an anonymous individual identified only as “Witness F”, who claimed to have suffered at the hands of the notorious war criminal.

                      Within just a few months, the black silhouette of ‘Gruban’ was plastered on a poster of the most wanted war criminals in Bosnia. At the time, the Boston Globe published an article wondering why the poster of “Gruban” stated that his description, father’s name, location and age were all listed as “unknown”.

                      The problem for NATO forces in tracking down the serial rapist was that Gruban from Bijelo Polje, also known as Gruban Malic, is a fictional character from Hero on a Donkey, a famous Serbian novel about World War II by Miodrag Bulatovic.

                      I believe that qualifies as Goldstone acting improperly, or at least
                      wasting the judiciary’s time and must point to a certain lack of cognitive rigour on his part which was further reflected, and with much more potential to do harm to the good name of the investigatory committee which could employ such a one to head it up, and that’s without mentioning his wilful blindness to Christine Chinkin’s obvious anti-Israel bias and its potential effect on the “objectivity” of the enquiry.

                • LIttle tutu, mandela, mugabe and his Socialist Shitler moustache can all join idi amin in Hell.

            • Eichmann didn’t make the law only enforced it. So he was a righteous person naturally – according to dubi.

              File this under “the legal opinion of an “anti-Zionist” legal expert.

                • Are you suggesting that Goldstone committed crimes against humanity?

                  No I don’t. I wrote that he as a judge condemned people to whipping. According to SA laws this kind of punishment was applicable only for blacks. You tried to defend him saying that not he was who made these laws he only applied them. Then I said that Eichmann could be excused on the same legal basic exactly. He enforced only the laws, he didn’t make them.
                  No dubi, as far as I know Goldstone didn’t commit any crimes against humanity, he is only the archetype of an opportunistic bureaucrat who are ready to serve every system or ideology.

    • “Secondly, whilst Palmer was an excellent choice, whose idea was it to have Uribe as vice chair? A known prolific human rights violator who has previously equated human rights activists with terrorist sympathisers!”

      Bothers you in this case does it?

      I guess you must be on the Israeli side than…

    • oh please,

      the entire unhrc is a cabal of human rights violaters

      throw a penny at the un, and you will hit someone who has violated someone elses human rights

      the time for faux outrage ends now

    • Can you give an instance where he acted incorrectly as a judge?

      Not at all. He, exactly like the Nazi blood-judges applied the law of the country properly and loyally to his apartheid masters.

      The difference should be obvious. I’m told that comparing a Jew to Nazis is anti-Semitic. Does that only apply to “good” Jews?

      Assuming that you as a self-professed academic has the minimal understanding skills – you must have known that I didn’t compare Goldstone’s actions to what the Nazis did. I compared your legal justifications of him to legally justifying the Nazi judges’ acts. And why should be considered antisemitism to compare an individual Jew to Nazis?
      I’m sure that there are Jews who are full blown Nazis. Maybe you are familiar with the story of a Hungarian Jewish student of philosophy who organized a Nazi group about five-seven years ago and has been expelled from the university. But to compare Israel with Nazism – the real antisemitism – is an everyday habit of your freedom fighting pals.

      Really? So the law of return applies to Muslims as much as Jews?

      Bullshit. Are Germany, Greece, Hungary etc. apartheid countries having laws to allow the automatic citizenship of ethnic Germans, Greeks etc.? I have to tell you the level of academy has been seriously deteriorated in Europe if you have really any degree.

      The state spends as much per child on Arab children as it does per child on Jewish children?,

      No it doesn’t. One of the many problems/faults in the Israeli system of state subsidies and it must be corrected. There are very serious and practical steps to correct this anomaly – interestingly under a Likud government. But this has nothing to do with apartheid as you would know weren’t you totally blinded by your hate.

      An Arab would have no more trouble than a Jew in buying property?

      An Arab would have more problems to buy a property in some of the smaller Jewish towns or villages but it is not impossible – the problem is not a legal one. To buy a property in an Arab village is absolutely impossible for a Jew. Again I’m sure that you know perfectly well that this has nothing to do with apartheid either and everything to do with the decades of enmity between the Arab and Jewish population. To block an Israeli citizen to buy a property in every corner of Israel is against the law.

      And, of course, apartheid, meaning “separation” – Israel doesn’t build walls to separate Arab villages, Arab farmers from their land etc?

      Maybe you are not aware of the fact that the “wall” (what is not a wall at all only in the BS vocabulary of the so called “anti-Zionist” crowd) has been built to block the suicide freedom-fighters heroic murder of Israeli civilians. And if you can consider everything whose name consist the word “separation” apartheid then making gas from crude oil is a process of apartheid too.
      To make long story short – dubi take a real lawyer and demand your money paid for your academic education back.

      • “And why should be considered antisemitism to compare an individual Jew to Nazis?”

        A very good question Peter. I wonder how this conversation might look different had I compared a Jew to Nazis.

        “Bullshit. Are Germany, Greece, Hungary etc. apartheid countries having laws to allow the automatic citizenship of ethnic Germans, Greeks etc.?”

        So you’re saying that all indigenous people of Palestine (including the Arabs of Palestine) and their descendants can use the right of return? My friend I think you’ve just solved the refugee question!

        “No it doesn’t.”

        At least you’re admitting apartheid here.

        “the “wall” (what is not a wall at all only in the BS vocabulary of the so called “anti-Zionist” crowd) has been built to block the suicide freedom-fighters heroic murder of Israeli civilians. ”

        To genuinely believe that, you would have to convince yourself that either suicide bombers don’t know about the numerous unguarded gaps in the wall (that people walk through every single week), or are just too lazy to walk to them.

        Either way, it’s intellectually feeble.

        • So you’re saying that all indigenous people of Palestine (including the Arabs of Palestine) and their descendants can use the right of return? My friend I think you’ve just solved the refugee question!

          A good question. Somehow I doubt that the repatriated Greeks, Germans etc. want to eliminate Germany or Greece. A small difference.

          At least you’re admitting apartheid here.

          You must have serious problems with understanding skills dubi. Seek professional help.

          To genuinely believe that, you would have to convince yourself that either suicide bombers don’t know about the numerous unguarded gaps in the wall (that people walk through every single week), or are just too lazy to walk to them.
          Either way, it’s intellectually feeble.

          I know dubi in your book to believe my personal experience and eyes and believe the experience of my fellow Israelis plus the facts on the ground is somehow “intellectually feeble”. Could be interesting to learn something from intellectual giants like youself pontificating about subjects you know nothing about.

          • “A good question. Somehow I doubt that the repatriated Greeks, Germans etc. want to eliminate Germany or Greece. A small difference.”

            Right. So you’re now admitting that the law of return doesn NOT apply to all, regardless of race or religion?

      • Just an afterthought dubi. You (supposedly an European yourself) are extremely busy to find apartheid in Israel, when in your own house – in the supposedly most democratic European countries like France, UK, Italy etc. millions of Muslim, Roma and other minorities are living in ghettos, their options to buy or rent a place in a “better” neighborhood is virtually nil, where their government support is much less than the average of the relevant country and where last but naturally not least European citizens belonging to the Roma community are deported on purely racial base and denied their most basic human rights like equality befor the law and police protection against racist violence.
        There are a lot of Muslim countries whose constitution forbids granting citizenship to Jews even denying entry (naturally your beloved future Palestinian state included).
        FYI Virtually all (not Hamas but “moderate” Palestinian leaders like Abbas, Shaath, Erekat) declared that in the future Palestinian state no Jews will be tolerated and selling land for Jews is punishable by death.
        But naturally you are barking about Israeli apartheid…
        This is the consequence when ignorant political activists are masquerading as academics.
        You are claiming to be an expert on I/P so let me ask you a question. Do you understand Hebrew/Arabic at all making it possible reading the local media and watching/listening to local TV/radio programs? Are you familiar with the culture and history of the ME even on a basic level? A Yes or No answer will be enough.
        Your total ignorance and hypocrite preaching is an asset for us Israelis in our fight against your kind of pseudo-intellectuals so please don’t hesitate to demonstrate your pearls of wisdom on Cifwatch in the future.

    • Currently watching with disbelief as you try to apologise for the “Jews scumbags” grafitti authors on Harry’s Place.

      • I hadn’t seen “Harry’s Place” until today. I thought it was just another website. I didn’t realise it was a resource for the EDL.

        Peter, when hardened racists start thinking you’re their kind of guy, it’s time to take a long hard look at yourself.

        • Considering HP as the resource for the EDL says everything about your intellect and morality and strenghtens my belief that I’m right.
          After the posters showed your inability to differentiate between fighting for Palestinian freedom and anti-Zionism, your shamefully unsuccessful attempts to whitewash the clearly racist nature of your buddies you declared them EDL and escaped with your tail between your legs.
          As usual in your circles, let’s run, start to whine about racism, the use excessive force (take your pick) and declare a divine victory.

          PS I loved your lieblings’ heroism in the Royal Albert Hall last week…
          I hope you can find some legal and moral reasons justifying their actions.

        • dubitante, “Peter, when hardened racists start thinking you’re their kind of guy, it’s time to take a long hard look at yourself.”

          True and when your blog and Twitter account is full of propaganda for Islamist Terrorists, and followed by their supporters and enablers an even longer harder look is called for. But you wont because ‘birds of a feather flock together’.
          Add to the mix Little Dickie Silverstein “Israel’s very own William Joyce” (may he share the same fate) and you have the biggest stink since before they installed working sewers in London.

        • You accuse peterthehungarian’s answers of being intellectually feeble above, dubitante, and yet you, without a hint of irony, accuse Harry’s Place of supporting the EDL!!!

          Do you write these things for a dare or do you really believe the garbage you spout? (If the former, who is “daring” you to make a fool of yourself here? I hope they are paying you enough).

    • Currently watching in disbelief as Ergodan demands an aplolgy.

      When will Erdogan apologise and pay reparations to the 1,000,000 Armeneians his government murdered.

      • … and apologise pay reparations to the half-milion Pontic Greeks Turkey murdered …. and apologise to Cyprus for Turkey’s ongoing occupation …..

    • The preacher must be clean on his subject of preaching, otherwise he has no right to preach. Anti-Zionists, to a man (and to a state), have an atrocious track record that renders them unfit to judge the Jewish State.

      I repeat:

      Kindly unpoke your nose out of affairs that are no concern of yours.

  10. PeterTheHungarian
    Don’t waste your time with that Dubitante character: he deliberately takes you way off topic to make his weak little points, generally bolstered by nothing but his incredulity or an obvious twist of the facts.

    He got his card marked on HP playing with the big boys, giving some excuse for his weak answers that he didn’t know who they were (sob sob). One gathers from that that he changes his versions according to who he’s talking to.

  11. Face it, Dubitante: you got your backside well and truly kicked on Harry’s Place. It’s obviously way out of your league and if you knew anything at all about that site you would not make ridiculous smears concerning links to the EDL. Guess your research skills failed you on that one too….

    Now, are you going to answer Peter’s question regarding your Arabic and/or Hebrew language skills? Seeing as you claim to be an ‘academic researcher’ (and obviously imagine that furnishes you with some sort of authority) it would be very pertinent for commentators here to know the sources you use in your research. (clue – the PSC website and Socialist Unity do not count as reliable sources.)

      • Oh you’re such a joker Dubitante! Bob Pitt as a source? Do us a favour – go insult someone else’s intelligence.

      • Now, dubi, what’ve you already been told here about:

        (a) thinking critically, which means, among other things, not believing everything you are told without checking it out fully first?

        (b) reproducing opinions as “facts” from distinctly biased and dubious sites like the one you mention above, which couldn’t tell the difference between opinions and facts if both were labelled;

        All of which makes you rather a fool, doesn’t it?

        Israelinurse, he is a lousy researcher and relies on bluff and bluster and not being questioned too closely. I doubt that he knows Hebrew or Arabic and it’s highly likely that his “research” is derivative, based on hearsay evidence and therefore suffers from the sort of cumulative error one might expect from someone who is entirely lacking in the capability for critical analysis.

  12. How interesting that the international press chose to concentrate on the single negative point with regard to Israel in the Palmer Report.

    PeterTheHungarian
    Have you noticed how often it is true that we have ‘experts’ in the history and theory of the Middle East who speak neither Hebrew nor Arabic? They must think that not knowing too much about actual facts gives one a fresh viewpoint unspoilt by reality.

  13. I asked dubi the same question regarding his language skills on Harry’s Place. Naturally he didn’t answer it saying that the question is an ad hominem attack and doesn’t worth a response. After making himself a total asshole and has been debunked there (his second time in three days) he declared a divine victory and went away as he did it before. A good student of Nasrallah and the Egyptians.