British “Intelligence” and Zionist Nazi analogies

In Douglas Murray’s latest piece for The Spectator, he asked whether Jews should leave Britain, a question prompted by a piece written by Israeli journalist Caroline Glick, which she wrote after participating in an Intelligence Squared debate about Israeli settlements.

The resolution they debated was titled: “Israel is destroying itself with its settlement policy. If settlement expansion continues Israel will have no future.”

Glick and Danny Dayan, outgoing head of the Yesha Council, were pitted against William Sieghart and Lord Levy’s son, Daniel Levy (one of the founders of J-Street).

The resolution passed by a ratio of 5-1.

Murray wrote the following:

“As Glick notes in her bitter farewell to London, the audience was so hostile towards her argument that when she even mentioned the matter of Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini and his involvement with the Nazis during World War II she was booed down by the audience. They – having been presented to her as open-minded – turned out to be so close-minded and partial that they would not even hear a historical fact about a Palestinian figure who was an actual Nazi.”

However, there was actually some applause from the audience in response to the following Nazi reference made by an audience member. (I edited the full video, which can be seen here).

The dilemma in responding to such a grotesque inversion – the insidious and intellectually bankrupt assertion that Israeli Jews are the practitioners of a Nazi ideology, a charge for which many “sophisticated” Europeans, weary of Holocaust guilt and increasingly hostile to Israel, seem to enjoy as a bit of moral Schadenfreude – is whether to dignify it with a response.

Murray, who didn’t mention that particular question from the audience, strikes the correct tone in his broader reply when he contextualized the tenor of the Intelligence Squared debate by citing MP David Ward’s evocation of ‘Jewish atrocities’ during his putative commemoration of Holocaust Memorial Day, as well as the cartoon by Gerald Scarfe.

Murray wrote the following:

“There is absolutely no connection between, for instance, the liquidation of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto and the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank. There is absolutely no connection between the situation in Gaza and the herding of six million Jews into concentration camps. The wonder then is not over Scarfe or Ward’s sense of timing, but why at any point in any year they would be so keen to spread lies and to bait Jews by comparing the actions of the Jewish state with those of a genocidal doctrine of Nazism which sought to annihilate the Jews.”

While Glick’s gloomy and definitive prediction that there is no future for Jews in England seems a bit too glib, Murray’s slightly more restrained conclusion and haunting final question certainly seem sober, well-informed and depressingly apt:

“Glick’s question returns. What sort of future is there in Britain for Jews? I would submit that there is a future. But what is becoming increasingly clear is that the price of that future is that Jews will increasingly be expected to distance themselves from Israel. There is a fair amount of evidence from the Jewish community suggesting that this process is already underway. Once it is complete then those ‘good’ anti-Israel Jews will be able to proclaim victory. But the same force that they encouraged to come for their co-religionists will then just as surely come for them. And then where will they hide?”

49 replies »

  1. First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

  2. Let all the self hating Jews remember the above. There were 150,000 Jews, half Jews and quarter Jews fighting for the Wehrmacht to protect the “Fatherland”. Most were exterminated in concentration camps by the Nazis. Let that be a lesson to all Jews who do not fight back and speak up in the face of Antisemitism and tyranny.

  3. Jews have good reason to be afraid of Arabs. They keep on declaring “From the River to sea Palestine will be free”. Meaning free of Jews.

    They also back up such statement with action. During OSLO negotiation and second intifada 1600 Israeli’s mostly civilians were murdered by Palestinians terrorism.

    In the 2006 election held for PA autonomy Hamas won 60% of the vote. Technically speaking Ismail Haniya is the elected president of Palestinians. Not Mahmoud Abbas. Hamas is not some human rights organization either. Just read their charter.

  4. This very much reminds me of Stalin’s comment about Jews: 1/3 would be killed, 1/3 would leave and 1/3 would stop being Jewish. But the result would be the same: zero Jews. I suspect Islam is just giving moral cover to the historical anti-semitism that has always existed in Europe, and never gone away. I *do* think that the best thing Jews can do in Europe is leave (well, frankly, given the rise of Islam, same for anybody who doesn’t want to become Muslim).

    • I thought that comment was attributed to the Czarist minister Konstantin Pobedonostsev, although the accuracy of this attribution has been questioned by scholars. As I recall, it goes like this: 1/3 of the Jews of Russia would emigrate, one third would convert to Russian Orthodoxy, and 1/3 would “die out.”

      • Michael R. is correct. Pobesonostsev, the Imperial Procurator, was a very powerful and influential anti-semite. I learned this fifty years ago in my terrific SU (Maxwell School) courses in Russian History–I even remember the textbook by the European historian, Georg von Rauch. There are still plenty of Russians like Pobedonostsev today.

  5. Regrading the analogies of Israeli Jews to Nazi’s I don’t recall Jews blowing up Germans in Pizza shops or blowing up German buses with Suicide bombers.

    Nor do I recall Jews working for The German government as Member of Parliament and High court Justices and serving in the German army.

    Nor were Jews demanding to get in to Germany they were trying to get out. If Israel is so bad how come 2000 Palestinians sneak in illegally to Israel for work each month?

    Not only are Arabs citizen of Israel treated with equal rights the have high birth rates and low infancy mortality thanks to Jewish run hospitals.

    When a Palestinians are injured in car accidents IDF doctors and Medics rush to treat them. Then they are evacuated if need to Israeli hospitals were they get the best medical treatment available in Western world. They could only dream of getting such high quality treatment in an Arab hospital in any of our neighboring countries. How do I know? I have personally treated Palestinians. Sometime they are brought by relative to the gate of IDF bases asking for help.

    How does all of above fit in with comparing the Arab-Israeli conflict and the German program of extermination for the Jews??

    • Ez, 1) Jews were officers in the German army in ww1 etc so check your memory.2) Jewish run hospitals… the HaEmek hospital is being run by an Israeli Muslim Arab. again, check your facts.

  6. “Just like the Nazi’s were voted in so is the Israeli right wing voted in.” – she forget to mention that the Nazis banned/liquidated all other parties once voted in. Likkud has been voted in and voted of power more than a few times. This is sign of healthy democracy.

    • Watch the entire debate if you haven’t already. Sieghart and Levy had almost no work to do as the audience had already been conditioned like Pavlov’s dogs through the British media. Levy just did a lot of posturing. Sieghart employed the lying map strategy. Almost all questions from the audience revealed a grotesque ignorance on their part.

  7. No, Jews should definitely not leave UK. Bigots can go instead, plenty of places for them in the world. Tell Matt Seaton what Caroline Glick did is called brave.

    • Caroline Glick is not a UK citizen, she’s an American citizen who left her country and moved to Israel.

      • So the best would be that you stop talking about Israel as you are no citizen of Israel, idiot.
        But as the West, USA, Great Britain and Israel defend free speech, Glick is entitled to critícise, but you are not entitled to spread hate speech.

          • The fact that you’re a Dutch troll, posting from the Netherlands, and paid with Euros for your skullduggery.
            Also, the fact that you fling accusations of dual loyalty against Jews, support boycotts against Israel, and are generally hostile towards anything Jewish, seems to be a big clue; one would reckon.

            • 101, I never threw “accusations of dual loyalty against Jews”, I never supported “boycotts against Israel”, and I never was “generally hostile towards anything Jewish”.

              Are you familiar with defamation laws?

              I am someone who’s committed to democracy in Israel, and I will not stay silent in front of hard right wing fascist nutcases who want to subvert democracy in Israel. Their racism and hatred of others insult Judaism, a religion of respect for basic human rights, of understanding and tolerance, and of coexisting with others.

              • Ha! But yes you did…
                You’ve told posters here, that complaining to their MEPs about their positions re Israel was wrong, because “they serve Europe, not Israel”.
                Classical, antisemitic, dual-loyalty trope.
                We have THREADS sprawled with your justification of a boycott against Israel.
                And you are, after all, a pathetic liar.
                Tell us though, “Nat”, you’ve trolled quite substantially today:
                How much does that work out to? Will it be a really fat cheque?
                I think you find that far more engrossing than Israeli democracy.
                (thanks for admitting you’re Dutch, thoughl. Now if you’d only lay down the marijuana…)

              • Nat, with nearly all your posts you do not give that impression at all. You seldom have anything good to say about israel. You assert the rights of Arabs but denigrate Jewish rights by not even acknowledging them. Your thinking is confused at the best of times. You recently associated Adam’s banning from CIF to a white supremacist’s profile removal without any qualification, context, nuance or shame. You refer to Yigal Amir and Baruch Goldstein (above) as examples of (self-hating jews) anti-democratic forces in Israeli society, which they are of a very few examples, but miss the bigger point that democracy did not collapse because of them ,and no one on this site (and most of those who comment) has apologised for their disgusting acts.

                But that does not stop you Nat from making a fallacious point by conflating “self-hating” Jews with only those who committed criminal acts and disregarding a real menace to Israel by agreeing with Jews and terrorist supporters willing to surrender to genocidal maniacs and just walk away.

                In my book you have to do a lot more than make the one isolated comment for me to change my mind about you.

                • Yigal Amir and Baruch Goldstein were definitely anti-democratic activists, who assassinated people. This is unacceptable in a democracy, which is why Amir was sentenced to life imprisonment in Israel.

                  • In isolation, I would not disagree with your comment and in fact I have already said so, in the post above it. But in context with what’s being discussed here, it is inappropriate.

                    What’s interesting about what you do Nat, is that you appear to enjoy cajoling and upsetting others. You don’t make edifying points for sure. Not all of us will do either, but some provide interesting points for discussion, but you relish in the continuous harassment is tiring. Try going on another site that is anti-zionist and post a sympathetic comment about Jewish people having sufferd under Arab rule, as an example and see if it is even allowed.

                    People are generally very concerned about the media’s portrayal of Israel and how mainstream thinking has turned now, in some cases violently against Jews around the world. I googled last night ” Jews leaving Norway”, “Jews leaving France”, “Jews leaving Sweden” and so on. The figures are worrying. That’s the bottom line. It’s not a good time.

                    If you want to make a valid contribution, have a good think about it.Don’t just simply jump in and ignore what’s being said about you. Behind every post, is a person. Each (and most) are different and hold opinions that are not (necessarily) yours.You may even get people involved.

                • Wow. I think most BTL posters here – absolutely including me – could learn a thing or two on the diplomatic front from Another Joshua.

                  • Yes Pretz. Thank you. It is sometimes difficult to think straight and emotions take over more than they should.

  8. British “Intelligence” and Zionist Nazi analogies

    Yet another preposterous headline and CiFW.

    The idiots cited are a miniscule minority and have zero influence on British society in general.

    • Pretz you miss the point of the piece, when it gets a bit subtle. The erosion of support for Israel is being worked in many was. The woman who conflates Israel and Nazis airbrushes out tons of detail to arrive at her own simple conclusion. Not a question at all. She’s made up her mind.They are not a “miniscule minority” when we keep hearing about it. It would not even have crossed the minds of almost anyone , except hard Nazi types, to make the connection years ago , but here we have a representative cross-section and in that cross-section of largely hateful anti-zionists, a group willing to go that extra step and applaud it, making it respectable opinion and to deny themselves the real paradox of their baseless argument when Haj Amin etc is mentioned and a groan follows as soon as it is mentioned. In contrast, how many booed it ?

    • If that’s true, then I’m happy to hear it. Most of the people I meet here in the States who are from the UK (they always seem to refer to themselves as English) are a real pleasure to talk to.

    • If a miniscule minority hold an opinion, they must have had some influence over one another pretz to be much more than zero. And who’s to say that such opinions will not make its impact on others.

  9. That woman in the video is evidently not English. She sure is ignorant, arrogant, and not well-informed about history, or forms of government. The ignorance of that audience, to bring their preconceived notions in and unwillingness to listen to counter-arguments with open ears is just stunning. They can’t break the out of their paradigm. Presented with empirical facts, they booed, yet they seemed to swallow Sieghart’s dog and pony show hook, line and sinker. No skepticism whatsoever.

  10. It’s creepy. These are supposed to be intelligent people. The young woman in the video has great self-assurance, but as you say, Jeff, such ignorance coupled with arrogance. What a combination!

  11. Douglas Murray is the standard BBC right-wing pseudo-intellectual who is trotted out on a regular basis to give”balance” to any particular debate. His ideas,opinions and moral standpoint are not really worthy of comment. However  it can be said he is rather more articulate than your average pompous twerp.


    • Lovely comment. Yes, I’m sure Mr. Murray doesn’t quite have your intellectual heft, but, you know, they’ve got to make it look like there’s some balance for the poor unfortunate common clay out there. Quite right and rather, old bean. Carry on.

  12. Caroline Glick is too gloomy.

    On 23 January I was on a joint lobby of Parliament in London organised by the Zionist Federation and Christian Friends of Israel. The fact that the lobby has been organised JOINTLY for a number of years gives me hope that it is not just Jews in the UK who understand how we are sliding back into a 1930s word but Jews too.

    Maybe because one of my parents was one of Nicholas Winton’s refugees from Czechoslovakia (details at http://www.hereford-starlab.co.uk/NGW/WintonsList/index.htm ) I have greater hope than many because I have seen what good people can achieve in the face of great evil.

    Never give up on God and never belive that on your own you cannot achieve anything. History is full of supposedly insignificant people who changed history.

  13. Who are the Nazis? I’ll let you judge.


    UNESCO says won’t fund Palestinian magazine praising Hitler
    After children’s magazine publishes article on girl’s dream in which Hitler tells her ‘Jews spread destruction all over the world.
    Yitzhak Benhorin

    Nazis, Arabs planned Final Solution for pre-state Israel
    Stan Goodenough, April 10th, 2006

  14. Jeff your right about the Sieghart lying map strategy.
    Sieghart leaves out the fact the 1948 borders are not the true borders and he knows that. The East Bank was part of the Mandate borders of 1917 and the Brits gave the entire East Bank to the Arabs and named the country after the Jordan River.
    (Jordan) Jordan is 75% of the land with a majority Palestinian population.
    Right now as i’m writing this, the Arabs have 80% of the land, the Jews have 20% of the land. This is the one thing Glick should have mentioned in response to Sieghart. Jordan also passed a law stating their country must be Jew free.

    The 48 war was the was the result of the Palestinians together with their Arab allies to perform ethnic cleansing on the Jews and their failure to complete it.
    Every single Jew in the parts of the Mandate seized by the Arabs was expelled from their homes. No exceptions. They even dynamited the entire ancient Jewish quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem in an attempt to wipe out the history of Jewish residence there. They also made it illegal for a Jew to live in the areas of the former Mandate that they controlled, including East Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.
    850,000 Jews were also forced from the Arab countries.
    After the 5 Arab armies attacked Israel in 48, Hajj Amin Al Husseini stated:
    I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!
    The Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared “a holy war. He said, “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.

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