The factual and logical failures behind accusations of ‘racist’ Israeli bus lines

There seems to be no evidence whatsoever to back up accusations, in the Guardian and throughout the media, that new bus lines in Israel, serving Palestinians who live in the West Bank but work in central Israel, serve ‘Palestinians only’.  

Prior to the launch of the new lines Israeli buses did not stop in towns controlled by the PA, and Palestinians were dependent on transportation services by “pirate” (Arab) companies. (Alternately they could travel to an Israeli settlement, such as Ariel, and take a bus from there to Israeli cities across the green line.)

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Conal Urquhart’s Guardian report on the issue, which, in fairness, is no worse than others in the mainstream media, was titled “Israel to launch ‘Palestinian only’ bus service“, March 4, and begins thusly:

The Israeli government will on Monday begin operating a “Palestinians-only” bus service to ferry Palestinian workers from the West Bank to Israel, encouraging them to use it instead of travelling with Israeli settlers on a similar route.

However, at no point does Urquhart attempt to buttress this sensational claim, nor indicate the source of the (“Palestinians only”) quote.

In fact, he then notes the following:

Officially anyone can use them, but the ministry of transport said that the new lines are meant to improve services for Palestinians.

In a statement to the Israeli newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, the ministry said: “The new lines are not separate lines for Palestinians but rather two designated lines meant to improve the services offered to Palestinian workers who enter Israel through Eyal Crossing.

As Lori Lowenthal Marcus pointed out, the ‘restrictions’ pertain to ‘only’ stopping at Palestinian towns in the territories, where Jews don’t live.

Urquhart continues:

Information on the new services, which are operated by the company Afikim, have reportedly only been advertised in Arabic and distributed only in Palestinian areas of the West Bank.

However, if the goal of the new bus line is to improve service for Palestinians living in the West Bank but working in Israel, it would certainly make sense to advertise the lines in Palestinian towns, and only in Arabic.

Again, Urquhart:

Palestinians used to use Palestinian minibuses and taxis to travel into Israel but Israel has increased the number of permits it gives to Palestinians which has led to more mixing on shared routes.

Indeed, Palestinians were dependent upon transportation services by unauthorized Arab companies which charged far more than the new Israeli lines do, and Urquhart, further in his report, quotes the Transportation Ministry official making a similar point.  

For example, the fare for Palestinians traveling to Raanana is reportedly 5.1 shekels (roughly $1.35), and to Tel Aviv will cost 10.6 shekels ($2.85). This is compared to roughly 40 shekels ($10.75) that passengers have been charged by the private transportation services.

Additionally, Transportation and Road Safety Minister Yisrael Katz was quoted in Israel HaYom as explaining that “Palestinians were permitted to use any public bus line they wished, including the ones used by settlers.”

Lowenthal Marcus makes the following point:

The new bus lines are not, as the misleading headlines suggest, only for Arab Palestinians, the restriction they have is that they only stop at Arab towns in the territories, where – few would disagree – Jews with or without special identification would not dare go for fear – a legitimate one – of physical violence.  The fact remains that any Israeli citizens, Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrians, who live in the “Jewish” towns, were able to and did use the pre-existing bus lines.

As Seth Frantzman observed in the Jerusalem Post today:

The website of the bus company, Ofakim, shows that the No. 211 bus route begins near Kalkilya and travels to Tel Aviv with stops in Petah Tikvah, Bnei Brak and elsewhere. It doesn’t indicate that it is a “Palestinian only” bus or that Jews may not ride it. Ofakim claimed “We are not allowed to refuse service and we will not order anyone to get off the bus.”

Frantzman also argued that “nothing obvious prevents Arabs from commuting to a bus stop near a large Jewish community, to take a bus serving Ariel for instance.” He added that “there is no ‘segregation’, no ‘separate but equal’. No one is ‘sitting at the back’.”

But, one question remains: How would it be racist against ‘Palestinians’ if service on a bus line operating in the West Bank was for ‘Palestinians only’?  That is, how could Palestinians be victims of racism if service on a public transportation system was  denied to Jews?  

Typically, the canards employed by those who assault Israel’s legitimacy are framed in the opposite manner, with suggestions that public accommodations in Israel are restricted to prevent non-Jews from using them.  A great example of such a false claim, advanced by Haaretz and definitively refuted by CAMERA, was the myth of “Jews only” roads in Israel.

While there are no ‘Jews only’ roads in Israel, there are areas within the state for ‘Palestinians only’.

Put another way, is this sign racist?

No Israelis Allowed

Sign warning Israelis not to enter a Palestinian town

First, it would obviously be extremely dangerous for an Israeli Jew to enter Palestinians cities in Area ‘A’. It’s also prohibited by the IDF.   When I went on a media tour of Ramallah in 2011 I was required to sign a document essentially stating that I understood the risk involved and that the Israeli government was not responsible for my safety. 

Palestinian cities in the West Bank such as Ramallah are for ‘Palestinians only’.

Whilst the future of the new bus lines which are the focus of the latest anti-Israel media storm may be in doubt, let’s be clear about two things:

First, contrary to claims made in the media, there are no ‘Palestinian only’ bus lines.

If, completely hypothetically, there were such buses, it beggars the imagination how policies which excluded Jewish passengers could be characterized as racist against Palestinians

The latest row demonstrates that when it comes to reporting on Israel, facts and moral logic are necessarily subservient to sensationalist anti-Zionist narratives.

97 replies »

  1. “Palestinians were dependent upon transportation services by unauthorized Arab companies which charged far more than the new Israeli lines do”

    “Transportation and Road Safety Minister Yisrael Katz was quoted in Israel HaYom as explaining that “Palestinians were permitted to use any public bus line they wished, including the ones used by settlers.””

    So the new buses were started out of consideration for Palestinian pockets and in any case Arabs can use any buses – just as if. As a Haaretz report made clear the real motive was to substitute for buses whose drivers were refusing to carry Palestinians:
    “Police have begun ordering Palestinian laborers with legal work permits off buses from the Tel Aviv area to the West Bank, following complaints from settlers that Palestinians pose a security risk by riding the same buses as them.
    The Transportation Ministry says it is considering adding bus lines between West Bank roadblocks and central Israel; these would be geared toward Palestinian laborers.”

    • The article you cite, dear, is of November of last year. Before any policy, or any ‘special’ buses were instituted.
      You also fail to mention, that the removal of person in question — an isolated incident was as a result of a scuffle that broke out on board.(Within the article for subscribers).
      The fact is, frantic, vitriolic, anti-Israel NGOs, have been completely unable to substantiate any program of discrimination; then, as now.
      And many Palestinians are quite content with the extra buses added to the routes…
      But no… to you, anyone speaking docilely about Israel, is an Uncle Tom.

      • Commentary101 dou you think that Sencar gives a shit about the we3llbeing of the Palestinians?!

        • Of course he doesn’t.
          But don’t think I’ll stop trying to remind him, that his goal should be fighting for the Palestinians, not using them as pawns in his own personal vendetta(for reasons unknown, wink-wink) against Israel.

      • Have you actually read the Haaretz report, Commentary101? It makes clear that the ejection of Arabs from buses was NOT an isolated incident and that numbers of passengers were involved on each occasion. The racist views of several Israeli Jews commenting on the audacity of Arabs thinking they can board ‘Jewish’ buses add colour to the report.

        The time lapse since November was presumably required to set up the new services and ‘solve the integration problem’.

        • “sencar”, unlike you, I never write anything without properly examining the issue.
          There’s nothing in the report to indicate, that but for an altercation that developed on that line(during Operation Pillar of Defence — tenuous times) there was any preconcerted policy of separation.
          Here is the article in Hebrew(open in full to the general public):

          Even then, the ministry insisted:

          “פועלים פלסטינים חוזרים לביתם לאחר יום עבודה שלא כחוק (לא דרך מעבר מסודר). הוחלט להוסיף את קווי האוטובוס למעברים על מנת לדאוג לרווחת הפועלים לחזרה הביתה בצורה מסודרת יותר”.

          Palestinian workers [often] return to their homes, illegally — that is, not through the authorised check-points. We’ve decided to add bus lines to the checkpoints, so as to improve the welfare of the workers heading home, [and for this to be done] in a more orderly fashion.

          Some racist people surely exist.
          Do you want me to post a compendium of Palestinian racism, promoted officially in Palestinian media? Trust me, you don’t want to go there.

    • Yesterday the IDF acknowledged that ill-treatment of Palestinian children in military custody was an issue, following the publication of a UNICEF report.

      Will CIF Watch apologize to Ms Harriet Sherwood, who they accused of lying when she published stories on this issue?

      • Ah, “Nat”, you’re still trolling here.
        Even though you said you wouldn’t…
        Now piss off, and stop using sock puppets.

      • Hey “Nat” go find someone else to impersonate, will ya.
        Never mind CiF Watch apologizing to Sherwood, you should apologize to me for using my good name to spout your noxious garbage, and then just clear off.

  2. Fact, the push behind this new scheme came from Ariel residents that (right or wrong) found it hard to enter over crowded busses (mainly by Palestinian workers heading to Gush Dan) and found it distressing to travel at night back home in a bus filled with Palestinians.

    Though no incidents were noted about Terror attacks in those buses, it is somewhat understandable that fear of being outnumbered inside a confined space with population that view you as an enemy and which factors of it have been carrying out terror attacks randomly against civil targets is a major factor in making sound decisions.

    It is not surprising that prejudices axists in such cases. Never the less it displays how important finding a solution is not only for the Arabs but for the Jews and Christians too.

    Fact, The busses used to leave from eyal Crossing opnly and some Palestinians found it hard to make it there in time.
    Being not allowed to travel via private means meant that some lost a full day’s work.

    This is the main problem and not the fact that extra busses were allocated.
    Another problem is why isn’t the PA using the millions it gets from UNRWA to set up better transport systems and to actualy aid it’s population get about whereever it needs to go.

    Will the Guardian ask that question?
    Will Sencar ask it?

  3. Jon Donnison ‏@JonDonnison

    Am told by journo who went on “Palestinian only” buses that workers thought new buses were great & made getting to work quicker & cheaper.

  4. Here is how Haaretz is reporting it – What is it about this that does not make it racist. – The fact that it was done as a result of the demand from the settlers says it all. I suppose you will argue the Palestinians are an ungrateful lot.

    “Police officer Advanced Staff Sergeant Major Shai Zecharia stops the bus at the bus stop. Soldiers order all the Palestinians off the bus. The first thing they do is collect all their identity cards as they get off. One by one, the Palestinians are told to go away from the bus stop and walk to the Azzun Atma checkpoint, which is about 2.5 kilometers away from the Shaar Shomron interchange. All of them responded with restraint and sadness, at most asking why. Here and there they received answers such as, ‘You’re not allowed on Highway 5’ and ‘You’re not allowed on public transportation.’ Advanced Staff Sergeant Major Zecharia gave some vital information to one of the older Palestinians who had arrived there, telling him: You should ride in special vans, not on Israeli buses.”

    I suppose the South African blacks should have been grateful for their exclusive houses in the townships. However, I do not think they were. and rightly so.

    • This is not “Ha’aretz” reporting it; though “Tracy”, it’s quite clear you’re here for the entertainment value of the ‘pro-Pal’ propaganda effort:

      Ofra Yeshua-Lyth is a member of Machsom Watch, a female advocacy group monitoring West Bank checkpoints. She says:

      And then comes your bit.
      “Machsom Watch”, it should be noted, is a radical, fringe group that has been known to flaunt trumped up, or manufactured lies; they’ve been frequently accused of deliberate harassment of Israeli soliders.
      So please, spare us. There’s no independent, or otherwise reliable confirmation of anything of the kind.

  5. Commentary101- If you say so – I thought the link was from Haaretz – Perhaps you read that paper only in Hebrew. Do the translations differ? Is Staff Sergeant Major Zecharia a member of Machom Watch. I suppose we have got your independent word to say that the Sergeant Major was lying.

    • No, “Tracey”… Everything I’ve quoted comes from your very own source.
      I suggest you read your own links, before posting inanities — you stand the risk of getting caught.
      It wasn’t the Staff Sargent who said anything, it was the “Machsom Watch” affiliate who, according to the article itself, filed the report which Ha’aretz then regurgitated.
      Seriously, how can you miss this?(Well, in your case, it’s pretty simple: you’re a liar)

      Ofra Yeshua-Lyth is a member of Machsom Watch, a female advocacy group monitoring West Bank checkpoints. She says that recently, Bus 286 from Tel Aviv to Samaria arrived at a checkpoint filled with Palestinian workers. She filed the following report:

      Oh and darling, just a quick pointer on South Africa-analogies:
      When the ministry responsible, a government agency, says that it,

      [H]as not issued any instruction or prohibition that prevents Palestinian workers from riding the public bus lines in Israel or in Judea and Samaria. Furthermore, the Transportation Ministry is not authorized to prevent any passangers from riding those lines.”

      it deflates whatever ridiculous parallel you aimed to draw, in the first place.
      Now where have I seen that moniker before? Surely a sock-puppet?

      • Then again, Commentary101, at least the first two paragraphs of the haaretz article are a set up for misunderstanding, as is the hearsay quote from Machsom Watch.

        • Could be, Jeff… It doesn’t absolve “Tracey”(who I think, is one of our erstwhile “friends”, *cough*) of reading the article thoroughly, before screaming “South Africa”.
          Surely, the more astute or composed reader, would clearly have noticed the Ministry’s official caveat to the story.
          That Ha’aretz engages in wilful distortion is well known, but one can discern the truth if one is not hysterical, like “Tracy” here.

          • Agreed about Tracey. I was formulating an answer for her when I saw that you already had done so. Clearly she was happy to grab what she wanted and to ignore everything else.

  6. commentary101 – you can clearly get the Sergeant Major to deny what he has been quoted as saying or perhaps if he has been misquoted he could complain to the editor of the paper? Has he done that?

    Anyway do you agree the bus service was started as a result of the demand from the settlement residents? What are you disputing exactly? Are Palestinians free to travel on any buses? Were any of them removed from the bus and their passes checked? Why has there been not a big uproar on this misreporting in the Haaretz.

    • “You can get…”; my dear, I am not a journalist for Ha’aretz. It should have been, their, not my, responsibility to confront him/the Police with the account, and ask for a comment. They didn’t.
      There has been a lengthy analysis, by media watchdogs, of Ha’aretz’s dissemblance. This just from last week:
      “Are Palestinians free to travel on any buses?…”
      I can’t help you “Tracy”, if you’re purposefully unwilling to read:

      The ministry has not issued any instruction or prohibition that prevents Palestinian workers from riding the public bus lines in Israel or in Judea and Samaria. Furthermore, the Transportation Ministry is not authorized to prevent any passangers from riding those lines.

      So the answer to your question would be Yes, they are.
      And, as AP reports here, for your benefit, again:

      Israeli officials stressed that no one was forced to use the new lines and Palestinians were still permitted to ride on Israeli buses if they desired.

      Read before you post, next time…

  7. commentary101 – This is still not a denial of what the Sergeant Major said or whether the Palestinians were removed from the bus – or that the separate bus was as a result of the demand from the settlers. Oh I know Palestinians prefer it this way as well.

    Is that what the white South Africans used to say that the blacks know their place and prefer to live in their separate and exclusive Townships,

    I suppose you have a difficult battle on your hand to try and whitewash racism.

  8. You have an Israeli Sergeant Major saying the Palestinians are not allowed in the bus you have the settlers demanding a separate service for the Palestinians you have Palestinians being taken out of the bus – It is us anti-racist using our brains that got rid of Apartheid South Africa. The analogy is for all to see except the die-hard racist.

    Last November, Haaretz reported that the Transportation Ministry was looking into such a plan due to pressure from the late mayor of Ariel, Ron Nahman, and the head of the Karnei Shomron Local Council. They said residents had complained that Palestinians on their buses were a security risk.

    Oh by the way that camera website is a really honest website with Zionist and racist tinge.

    • So you’re an “anti-Racist”… Huh, that explains it.
      Sweety, using your brains apparently isn’t your strong suit.
      Otherwise, for the fourth time now, you would have realised that the Ha’aretz article is not quoting the Sergeant directly, but on hearsay from a known propagandist: It says so, in vogue.
      How many times will I have to repeat this?
      Yes, the residents complained. So what? Are you going to tell us, anti-Racist that you are, that there have never been suicide bombings in Israel? That buses in the country were not being blown up to smithereens(with people, women and children in them) by people you claim to be supporting?
      CAMERA, “racist”? Evidence, please.
      (Although, I don’t think you’re to blame in this case. It’s a like a nervous tick for you, isn’t it? Everything that doesn’t please your skewed world-view is instant racist, right?)

  9. Commentary101 – I fully understand you have every good reason to be thoroughly racist – just as the White South Africans and other racist before you. But it is still racism which ever way you cut it.

    I suppose Haaretz is another islamofascist ganging up against the Zionists.
    As for the Camera here is the evidence from wikipedia –

    The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) is an American non-profit pro-Israel[2] media advocacy and lobbying group.[3] The group says it was founded in 1982 “to respond to the Washington Post’s coverage of Israel’s Lebanon incursion”, and to respond to what it considers the media’s “general anti-Israel bias”.[4]
    CAMERA is known for its pro-Israel media monitoring and advocacy.[5][6][7][8] CAMERA releases reports to counter what it calls “frequently inaccurate and skewed characterizations of Israel and of events in the Middle East” that it believes may fuel anti-Israel and anti-Jewish prejudice.[3] The group mobilizes protests against what it describes as unfair media coverage by issuing full-page ads in newspapers,[9] organizing demonstrations,[10] and encouraging sponsors to withhold funds.[10] CAMERA has over 65,000 paying members[1][11] and states that 46 news outlets have issued corrections based on their work.[12]

    I suppose my problem would be proving that wikipedia is a legitimate source to a racist.

    • “Tracy”, I’ll keep it brief, this time:
      Evidence. That. CAMERA is racist.
      Can you provide that?
      (Perhaps you don’t know what racism is?)
      (Also, I am much shocked — though by no means surprised — that you accuse me of racism. And where exactly have made racist statements? By all means, don’t be shy).
      (Wikipedia is perfectly fine; though I don’t see what that has to do with anything…)

    • Tracey -I fully understand you have every good reason to be thoroughly racist – just as the White South Africans and other racist before you. But it is still racism which ever way you cut it.

      That you think your Wikipedia account of Camera is a smoking gun describing some sinister organization sums you up pretty well IMO.

    • Tracey and Sencar are DESPERATE to demonstrate that Israel is a racist state that practices apartheid. This is their stock in trade. Citing Israelis that beg for Palestinian-only buses for fear of being murdered does not prove your point, however much you wished it did.

      Israel is clearly, to an objective observer one of the least racist states in the world. This cannot be said of any of its’s neighbours. There has to be a reason why you attack Israel with lies – you and Sencar are obviously not objective observers.

  10. Of course there are no racists except some who have a genuine concern about other races and cannot mix or live with them for reasons that are fully understandable to all racists.

    A test for racism is simple. Should any right be dependent on ones race?
    Does Israel and the Zionists have laws that discriminate on the basis of race?
    Do you oppose those laws? Or do you support them? That is how racism is determined not by abuse. In fact the abuser is generally considered by the many to be the racist?

    Does Camera not promote Zionism and Israel’s racist laws. Or Camera is opposed to those laws? Perhaps you will enlighten us. Whether I know what racism is is not the issue.

    • “Whether I know what racism is is not the issue.”

      I must disagree with you there, Tracey. It’s very much the issue.

      Ladies and gentleman, witness Tracey, self-declared anti-racist decrying what she calls Zionist racism. When doubts arise to her knowledge of what constitutes racism, she declares that is doesn’t matter whether or not she understands what racism is. Blogger Tracey, a constant reminder of cognitive dissonance and a current resident in “The Twilight Zone.”

  11. I have said it many times to individual Jews I meet, to do more at the global level to combat Western liberal media manipulation of of facts by way of lunching proper enlightenment campaigns for Israel!
    I have particular interest in Israel and Jewish leaders worldwide engaging more with Black African Christians because we are natural friends of Israel and Jews. I am certain that if Israel had properly countered the western media manipulation of facts prior to the recent UN vote on PA status, African governments run by Christians would have stood with Israel.
    The main problem is that the only thing some people hear in the western world is that Israel is oppressing the Palestinians. Some people even think it’s cute to support Palestinians simply because they have been manipulated in such way.

    • Thank you John. Unfortunately, The Bibi is a .’cross’. that many of us have to bear. His ‘foreign minister’ is even worse. Israeli could have reacted easily with a minimum investment to counter the misrepresentations and omissions generated by ‘reporters’ from the delusional extreme left. There is some racism in Israel but of a very minor amount.. The one country in the world that should be completely free of racism still has it. But. It is not government policy. And that is the defining difference obfuscated by the delusional extreme left and amplified by lazy reporting on the part of other news media.
      Let us hope that the new government being formed in Israel will know how to present Israel’s case to the world in a manner that good people can identify with.

      • “The one country in the world that should be completely free of racism still has it.”

        I think that’s a bit ridiculous.
        An otherwise good post, Clap Hammer.

  12. Commentary101 Right of Return to start with – a person who was born in what is now Israel has no right to return to it but somebody born in New York, whose family for many many generations has never been in Palestine has the right of return. Than there is the right to bring a spouse to the country – Right to live in one’s house without threat of being evacuated.

    One can go on but than Apartheid laws in South Africa were also not supposedly racist but about separation of races – same as they are in Israel. You really are deluded even to ask such a question.

    • Tracey you just answered my question. Ahmedinejad can fit you on his 1500 oclock tomorrow to discuss t&c.

    • Tell me something, are you insane?
      South Africa was the epitome of Racism. Blacks were not allowed to live amongst Whites, work with Whites, get elected to Parliament, study with them &c; there was legislation against any sort of intermingling and miscegenation between Whites and Blacks.

      Israel has 1.5 million Arab citizens; an Arab Supreme Court Justice, Arab ambassadors, Arab ministers, Arab professors, and Arabs and Jews live together unhindered(you’ll find the relevant links, here).
      So how dare you speak of “Race separation”, when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about?!
      As for the “Law of Return” — this is an immigration regulation found in many countries the world over. Israel, being a sovereign state, has the right to decide who gets to immigrate therein.
      The Palestinians wish to have their own homeland, and it is there that they should be repatriated.
      Whereas 800,000 Jews evicted from Arab lands cannot even begin to hope for any sort of restitution…
      You really are psychotic. And furthermore, lying through your teeth, as you clearly have no clue about what you’re imputing to Israel.

        • I heard stories about how they treated Jews in the SA Army. You don’t want to know what they did to the Kosher food in front of their eyes.

    • Tracey: you are confusing the Law of Return with “right of return”. The former is a law of the government of Israel, which has the right–AS ALL COUNTRIES DO– to decide who may enter and who may become a citizen. The ethnic preference given to members of the Jewish people is not unusual; it’s an established legal principle called “lex sanguinis”. Other countries that provide immigration preferences to the ethnic group whose country it is include: China, Russia, India, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Germany, Armenia, Japan, and many others. That’s a very large fraction of the world’s population right there. The State of Israel gives me the right to immigrate and become a citizen. It does not give that right to descendants of those who became refugees in the failed attempt by the Arabs to strangle the newborn state of Israel at its birth.

      The “right of return” is a fictional right created by the Arabs. It does not exist in international law, except for actual refugees (not descendants) and only upon the end of a conflict settled by a peace agreement– at which point refugees who fled the conflict do have a right to return to their homes. No such peace, no such right. And nowhere in international law does this apply to descendants of refugees.
      Now before you start citing UNGA Res 194, please read up on the fact that UNGA resolutions are not even binding upon UN members. So those do not make “international law”– that’s only done by treaties which individual members agree to sign and ratify. Such treaties are not binding on non-signatories.

  13. Answer the question about racism – Is the law of return based on ethnicity?

    How is somebody whose family for many generations has never been anywhere near Palestine has got a right of return but somebody who was born in Historic Palestine has not got that right? The New Yorker is the immigrant. Every state has a right to control his entry. However, somebody born in Palestine is not an immigrant. He is not allowed to return to place of birth because of his ethnicity. Whichever way you cut it and even in colorful language it is blatant racism. I suspect you know that and that is why you become abusive. Deal with the issues. I will keep it simple. Just explain how right of return based on ethnicity is not racist.

    • Explain to me then, why a great multitude of Arabs remained in Israel, after the 1948, and became full citizens of Israel?(Today, they number, as I said, 1.5 million people — and form about 22% percent of the population).
      The Law of Return is based on imperatives set by the state of Israel. These include ethnic parameters, yes.(Israel is after all the Jewish state). The reason those who fled were not allowed to return, was because they launched a war against Israel in 1948, and constituted a threat to Israel’s survival in its early years.
      Now, are you going to retract your blatant and heinous lie that Israel practices Racial separation?
      Or are you going to keep stonewalling?

  14. They may be imperatives and they include ethnic parameters that is what makes it racist. At least you finally admit the racist nature of the state of Israel. As I said before racist are not racist for fun they see other races as a threat to their position and that is why they are racist.

    Now go and do more study on other aspects of the Israeli state, its occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza now that we are agreed that Israel’s law is based on imperatives that include ethnic parameters.

    • It doesn’t make it “racist”… Seriously, are you that thick?
      And this your covert way of saying you have no proof, and are now desperately trying to back-track?
      We’ve certainly “agreed” on no such thing. Rather, you yourself conceded that Israel has the right to choose who immigrates to it; which is precisely what is going on here…
      Now, now. We’re not letting you off the hook so easily:
      Where’s your now sorely belated apology for claiming that Israel has “Racial separation”?
      You wouldn’t want to appear unchivalrous, as well as a nasty liar, right?

    • My wife and friend’s wives received Israeli ID and they are not Jewish.
      Many Palestinians and Arabs have been allowed to return / migrate to Israel after marrying a non Jewish Israeli.

      How many Jews can imigrate to, let’s say, Libya, Syria, Algeria, Iraq, Iran (had enough)?

  15. Pardon me law based imperatives that include ethnic parameters is not racist. Is the earth flat? Or pardon me for asking where have you been all your life. what are you on?

  16. Pardon me law based imperatives that include ethnic parameters is not racist. Is the earth flat? Or pardon me for asking where have you been all your life. what are you on?

    I think in any serious debate you will have ashamed to even deny that law based on imperatives that include ethnic parameters is not racist.

    • Stop copying and pasting the same refrain.
      No, it’s not racist.
      Given that the law was a Humanitarian endeavour, to help hundreds of thousands of Jews, stateless after the Second World War; refugees, without a home.
      And given the fact that Israel is the state of the Jewish people.
      Since Jews have for millennia been a persecuted minority the world over, it was deemed necessary to provide relief for them, so that they should never find themselves as vagabonds.
      “Tracy”, we’re missing your unreserved and penitent recantation of hideous smear that Israel has “racial separation”?
      I think in any serious debate you would have been ashamed to ever lie about any other country having supposed Racial segregation.

  17. White South Africans argued it was their christian duty to establish Apartheid. That still means it was racist. So Israel is not a state of its Palestinians but of its Jewish people and you assert this has nothing to do with racism. I admit you might sincerely think your racism is perfectly justified but it is racism nevertheless.

    We are not going to get anywhere. Your admission of the law based on imperatives that have ethnic component define those laws as racist. Your admission that a state of the Jewish people is a further admission of exclusion of its Palestinian component.

    On that agreement we should end the discussion. I have nothing more to add to what you have already admitted materially.

    • Again, will you stop plugging in “South Africa” whenever you feel like it?
      It has already been shown to you, that Jews and Arabs live side by side, There are Arab ministers, Ambassadors, Professors, practitioners of every kind in Israel, and yet you still pursue this libellous line of levelling Apartheid at Israel.
      You’re disgusting.
      Israel is the state of the Jewish people, for the purposes of immigration, and the resolution of Jewish persecution. Israeli law, its declaration of independence, strictly define it as a state of all its citizens(Arabs, of course, as well).
      Just like Italy is the state of Italians, or Poland is the state of the Poles, and Croatia of the Croats. It means that their ethnic origin comes therefrom, and that they may associate themselves with that geographical locale; nothing more.
      And you may continue living in your delusional mindset of Israeli evil. But expect your lies to be challenged unflinchingly.
      For instance, Laws with ethnic components — try “Positive discrimination”, found in almost all European countries?
      Is that racism, as well?
      See, you even had to acknowledge — albeit grumblingly — that there is no Racial segregation in Israel, and Arabs are active participants in all forms of civil society(Of course, completely contrary to anything that had transpired in Apartheid South Africa).
      You will be rebutted; so you might as well educate yourself properly as to the facts. And screaming racism without knowing a single thing about the subject, is going to get you in a lot of trouble.

      • Given the nastiness – and baselessness – of Tracey Bell’s accusations, yours and Jeff’s responses have been remarkably patient and diplomatic.

        • Thanks Pretz…
          Though you’d understand, why sometimes, this patience wears thin.
          You always add a very balanced dimension to comments here, yourself.
          So thank you, for that!

    • Palestinians can go to Jordan, which BTW, is a real apartheid anti-Jewish state. Meanwhile you can piss off.

            • “i.e. he wants to see an Arab-free West Bank?”

              We won’t know the answer to that for sure until he clears it up. Until then, you’re free to give his remark any interpretation you (pretz and Fritz) wish, as he left it vague.

            • I wish to see Israel free from murderers of Jews. Of course, you don’t have this kind of concern in you imaginary idiotic PC world of universal harmony.

              • Aha. And Arabs in general are Jew murderers?

                One thing’s for sure. There’ll be no universal harmony with the likes of you around.

                • Who said that? Fact is that most Jew murderers are Arabs.

                  Fortunately, suicidal kumbaya morons such as yourself can still be stopped.

        • If Israeli arabs are unhappy with the Zionist entity, they can move to the 21 islamic paradises around (surely their bros will embrace them all with muslim love); I think Jordan is the most appropriate place. Also, as Jordan comprises around 80% of Mandate Palestine, palarabs already have their huge state and should stop whining about the sliver of land left for the Jewish people.

    • Tracey, your “thoughts” on ethnicity and what constitutes racism are a bit muddled.

      ethnicity – the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

      racism – the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    • “White South Africans argued it was their christian duty to establish Apartheid.”

      The Israelis are not white South Africans, and they’ve not argued that they need to establish Apartheid, nor is their state based on any such philosophy. There’s simply no analogy here, just a carefully cultivated propaganda lie that was dreamed up to fool useful tools such as yourself.

  18. Hey Tracey Jewhater, why not changing into an ‘ethnic’ Jew by converting to the Jewish religion?
    Your concept of ethnicity is based on racist notions.

  19. I do not want to prolong the discussion that Tracy has brought to an end but just to some of the questions raised after Tracy’s comment here are some of the quotes from the leading figures of Apartheid South Africa

    Incidentally they saw the connection between Israel and Apartheid South Africa –

    “Like the Jews, what we want is a country in which we can survive as a people,
    in which we can live our lives, maintain our standards and our Christian way
    of life.” Tienie Groenewald
    “As long as there is a commitment among Afrikaners to cherish their language
    and their culture and their traditions, the Afrikaner nation will continue to
    exist.” F.W. de Klerk
    “Their religion, setting them apart from the unelected pagans about them, bred
    in them a sense of special destiny as a people.” C.W. de Kiewet
    The crux of The Great Trek and the religious foundations for the future

    • I would very much appreciate a source for the first quote, there, Jason.
      (It is highly unlikely that Christian fundamentalists like the Boers would want to associate themselves with Jews; I think you made that one up).
      But it sounds to me, that very much like Tracy above, you have that special knack for lying.
      Incidentally, I don’t see what any of these “quotes” have to do with Israel.

    • So Israel is responsible for the Apartheid in South Africa when Groenewold, de Kiewet and de Clerc don`t even mention Israel?
      What an Anti-Semitic conspiracy thinking tracey/jason/ nat?? offers us.

    • Jason:
      “I do not want to prolong the discussion that Tracy has brought…”

      Yes you do.

    • And Hitler was a vegetarian.
      And he also liked Nietzsche (who would’ve turned in his grave to be even remotely associated with the fucker).
      What’s your point?

    • Thank you.., so you’re Jason mangold!
      And what does any of that have to do with Israel? How do statements made by non-Jews on what they perceive *themselves* to be reflect on Israel?!
      The article you cite is about the role of the CHURCH in Apartheid…
      And sweetie, you’re very much a liar.
      You said there was “Racial segregation” in Israel, and after being proven wrong, on all counts, you still have NOT apologized. Sounds like an unrepentant liar to me.
      Maybe we’ll finally get to hear it, now?

      • Thank you.., so you’re Jason mangold!

        Too funny.

        That’s the thing about these haters–they’re not smart enough to remember which sock puppet they used.

  20. Aaron Sagui, the spokesman at the Israeli embassy in Washington, e-mailed this to the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg who naturally jumped on the Israel bashing bus without even checking the most basic facts as it is usual in his circles:
    Right now, Palestinians wishing to cross legally into Israel (with a working permit) have no direct line to the border crossing. So they either take unauthorized taxis (at expensive fares, since the service is uncontrolled by transportation authorities), or they have to walk or travel to an Israeli city or village (Ariel, for instance) and there take a bus into Israel. The relevant bus company opened two lines that will serve Palestinians, going from their place of residence into Israel, saving them the trouble of going to Ariel first, or taking those taxis. The bus company made it clear, in an official announcement, that no Palestinian shall be shunned or rejected if they choose to travel on the Ariel line.
    I don’t hold my breath waiting for a correction at the Stur… Guardian.

  21. According to my opinion it`s all the same person or group, posting under Nat, Jason, Tracey, jamal, ..
    because he/she/they keep repeating the same antisemitic lies about Israel and Zionism – using the same sources again and again – like colonial project, racist, elected people, nazilike, apartheid, bloody, genocidal and so on.
    It is a nazi concept to spread big lies and repeat them without end to exhaust the free and to manipulate the masses who have no time to check the facts, to analyse logically, but just consummate because of work, family, existence, ..

    As long as Arab/Islamic oil money finances this gigantic attack, from the UN to left liberal medias in the west, from Islamistic centres int he west to Islamistic groups in Mali, Nigeria, syria, on enliightenment, human progress, common sense, democracy, civil rights and mass media, and doesn`t end as long people like Nat have a living.

    But the signs indicate developments in energy production which will end this dark age, and will finish off the postcolonialists whose main project is the end of Israel and the downfall of the west, quite similar to the communists.