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History lecturer James Renton: “Britain should apologise for Balfour Declaration.”


Cross posted by the London based blogger, Richard Millett

James Renton and Deborah Maccoby of JfJfP at SOAS

James Renton and Deborah Maccoby of JfJfP at SOAS

A little known history lecturer is quickly becoming the new poster boy of the anti-Israel movement. Last night at SOAS James Renton detailed why he thinks the British government should apologise for the Balfour Declaration. He was invited to speak by Jews for Justice for Palestinians.

The thrust of Renton’s argument is that there should be such an apology because the Balfour Declaration lacked clarity on the meaning of “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine, which, he said, unleashed an expectation of statehood amongst Jews that was never intended. He blames the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on this “misconceived, ill thought through policy of the British government”.

He also argued that the Declaration was based on the mistaken and anti-Semitic assumption that Jews had great power in America and Russia and that they were mainly Zionist. Therefore, such a declaration would encourage Russia and America against Germany during the Great War.

Renton thinks that there was never an intention to create a Jewish state and he quoted from a letter from David Lloyd George to the then Archbishop of Westminster, who told Lloyd George in 1919 that the Zionists in Palestine were “causing a stink and claiming that the country would soon be coming under their control”. Lloyd George replied to the Archbishop:

“If the Zionists claim domination of the Holy Land under a British protectorate then they are certainly putting their claims too high.”

Renton criticised Britain for advertising that it was a big supporter of Zionism while at the same time promoting national freedom for Arabs but without thinking either side really expected political independence in Palestine. This was because the British viewed both Jews and Arabs as “politically backward”.

You can read Renton’s thesis in Haaretz (contact me in you cannot access the link and I will send you the article).

However, his thesis is facile. For one he contradicts himself by saying both that the British thought the Jews had immense power but that they were also politically backward. Which is it?

For Renton the Balfour Declaration was mainly down to anti-Semitism. As he puts it “Balfour and Mark Sykes said nasty things about Jews” (Sykes was the government’s advisor on the Middle East at the time). And he downplays the role of Christian support for a Jewish state as well as Chaim Weizmann’s efforts in manufacturing ammunition for Britain during the Great War.

This campaign to have Britain apologise for the Balfour Declaration was dreamt up by the Palestine Return Centre. They launched a petition with the view to obtaining one million signatures in support of an apology by the time of the centenary of the Declaration in 2017. Unlike Renton, the PRC thinks the apology should be for the tremendous injustices” the Balfour Declaration has caused to the Palestinian people.

The PRC are now using the recent decision in the Mau Mau rebellion case, where Britain has been found guilty of complicity in the torture of victims in the Mau Mau uprising against British rule in Kenya in the 1950s and 1960s, to give their campaign a boost.

Renton spotted one difficulty with the PRC’s campaign though. He noted that there will be no one alive from the era of the Balfour Declaration to attest. So he suggested to a representative of the PRC who was in the audience last night that the PRC might have more success if they asked the British government for an apology for the Arab losses during the Arab uprising of 1936-1939.

The problem with that is that the PRC’s raison d’etre is the destruction of Israel via the so-called Palestinian “right of return”. They want an apology to undermine Israel’s existence. I doubt that Arabs were killed during that Arab uprising is of great significance to the PRC in the scheme of things. Renton might not know of the PRC’s politics, but there’s a good clue in their name Palestine Return Centre as to why they might want an apology.

Anyway, the wording of the Balfour Declaration is clear. What is meant by “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people” if not a state? The clue is in the words “national home”.

Renton gave us a sheet of homework asking all 10 of us in the audience some questions:

1. Did today’s talk differ from your previous understanding of this issue?
2. Has Dr Renton’s talk affected how you think about the Balfour Declaration?
3. What aspects would you challenge, and why?

Maybe you could email him at james.renton@edgehill.ac.uk with your answers. He wants to hear from you.

192 replies »

  1. My clear recollection is of reading a year or two ago in some tome or other that Arthur Balfour in later life( or memoirs?) specifically said that he knew what he was doing and that creation of the Israel /Jewish State was always his clear intention . By that stage , he actually claimed that he was and had long been ,( in a broad sense I myself am perhaps guessing) ” a Zionist . ”

    Angus

    Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:47:32 +0000 To: angus.logan@live.com

    • Arthur Balfour was known to be antisemitic and was groomed for his purpose by Chaim Weizmann. Balfour had earlier brought in Britain’s first immigration law to block Russian Jews coming to the UK, and Palestine would be an excellent place to send the ones already here.

      Theodor Herzl had done the same to and with Major Evans-Gordon 15 years earlier in 1902, warning him and the Royal Commission that Jews brought antisemitism and that there was a thing called “The Jewish Problem”. Both Zionists were naturally a bit unpopular with the settled Jewish population of the UK, and Jewish Cabinet Minister Sir Edwin Montagu branded the Declaration antisemitic.

      According to one of the three memos he wrote to his colleagues, he would “… be almost tempted to proscribe the Zionist organisation as illegal … mischievous political creed … animated by the restrictions upon and refusal of liberty to Jews in Russia. But at the very time when these Jews have been acknowledged as Jewish Russians and given all liberties, it seems to be inconceivable that Zionism should be officially recognised by the British Government … Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine.”

      5 years later, with a Zionist High Commissioner in Palestine busy arming the settlements and linking them with roads (providing employment for immigrants) a Conservative Government came to power in the UK and tried to find out why this promise, promising one people’s land to another, had been made. No explanation could be found, there was next to nothing about it in the Cabinet papers.

      • Hysterical Jew-hater “nick-a-Nazi” continues to practice creative pseudo-history. Rascal Burnout would surely approve.

        • Ser Jew I don’t know enough about history of that period to know whether or not he is right or wrong. It interesting that he makes some effort to make a point whereas you simply call him ” Nick a Nazi ” in a short and rather skimpy effort to swing the argument however you seem a sort of decent chap in an odd way.

          As for the article I am off to do some reading of the period to see if I agree or not. My history stopped at the First World War and I missed how a few hundred thousand Jewish folk in a few generations went from underdogs ,made to feel second class, to the stupendous masters of all they survey . Did they get help from the Brits ?

          I had travelled around and my schooling was fragmented ..but now I am retiredish I can learn some history .wouldn’t it be funny if I turned into a raging Zionist ?

          • “It interesting that he makes some effort to make a point …” rascal burnout

            Really? Your stupidity is boundless. All propagandists make a huge effort to make a point. Goebbels did it. Lenin did it. Mussolini did it. Mao did it.

      • “Conservative Government came to power in the UK and tried to find out why this promise, promising one people’s land to another, had been made. ”

        Sure, Nick. Pangs of conscience from a group that would have sold their own mothers for 30 pieces of silver. The truth is that the British Empire was in business and made business decisions. They’d been giving away other peoples land for quite a while, the difference here being that in this case they were going to give back land to the original owners, and then reneged. But in the end the owners didn’t let them get away with it. Tough luck for you.

      • ‘Nick’ when you write ” a Conservative Government came to power in the UK and tried to find out why this promise, promising one people’s land to another, had been made. No explanation could be found, there was next to nothing about it in the Cabinet papers.”, do you understand how ignorant and devoid of knowledge you show yourself to be?
        A Conservative Government came to power yes but, as usual with your ilk, you leave out important facts. For instance Andrew Bonar Law the incoming Conservative Prime Minister, and several others in the incoming Conservative Government, had served as members of the coalition Government along with Balfour who was and remained a prominent Conservative politician.
        ‘Nick’ when you write “there was next to nothing about it in the Cabinet papers.”, that is a lie. I have seen the original Cabinet papers, not extracts or quotes in a book, they are available at the National Archives.
        ‘Nick’ what this incontrovertibly proves is that you are either a) ignorant, b) a liar, or c) both.
        Which is it ‘Nick’ a), b), or c)?

      • Arthur Balfour was known to be antisemitic and was groomed for his purpose by Chaim Weizmann … Theodor Herzl had done the same to and with Major Evans-Gordon 15 years earlier

        Yes – and Icelandic pop nymph Björk is the real mystery author behind To Kill a Mockingbird.

  2. “However, his thesis is facile. For one he contradicts himself by saying both that the British thought the Jews had immense power but that they were also politically backward. Which is it?”

    Well both are possible. A group can be strong but politically inept and therefore they can be manipulated to use their power to the advantage of others. May be, the British were right or wrong in thinking they were strong and may be they were right or wrong in thinking they were politically inept.

    However, it is quite obvious the British did think they needed the European and American Jewry on their side and they did whatever was necessary to achieve that objective. They hoped they would not have to keep to their promise in that they were wrong because they underestimated the political maturity of the Zionist movement.

    It seems to me not only that Renton’s thesis is feasible it is proven by history to be correct.

    Certainly, the British need to apologize for giving away somebody’s land causing them so much misery for decades.

    • Certainly, the British need to apologize for giving away somebody’s land causing them so much misery for decades. –
      Nonsense.Refugees,migration,immigration,population transfers have occcurred in many places,and at many times.”Palestinians” are Arabs and live in Arab territories.Are you so concerned about the million Jews expelled from their communities throughout the Arab world?Are JfJfP?

      • “Certainly, the British need to apologize for giving away somebody’s land causing them so much misery for decades.”
        I seems to me that you’ve never looked at an Ottoman map of the area in question. Had you done this, you would see that there was not a “somebody’s land” there in the first place, and that the British Government had created this territorial unit after conquering the lands of the Ottoman Turks. Nor did the British “give away” any individual land owner’s land. Your entire thesis is rubbish.

        As for the British at that time being seduced by their own inane fantasist conspiracies of jewish power, you only manage to make it look like they haven’t evolved a single centimeter from that time until today. The historical persistence of such anti-Semitic conspiracy theories in the halls of power is yet another proof of both the desirability and outright necessity of the Jewish State.

        P.S. Such apologies won’t facilitate peace, just more reasons for war. Tragic.

        To sum up, despite the best efforts of those who would like us to think so, Israel is not a crime against nature.

    • First the British should apologize for their cooperation with Nazi Germany in the annihilation of the Jews.
      King George Vi blocked escape of German Jews

      Some documents from the period have already entered the public domain, giving an indication of the royal couple’s views. In the spring of 1939 George VI instructed his private secretary to write to Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax. Having learnt that ‘a number of Jewish refugees from different countries were surreptitiously getting into Palestine,’ the King was ‘glad to think that steps are being taken to prevent these people leaving their country of origin.’ Halifax’s office telegraphed Britain’s ambassador in Berlin asking him to encourage the German government ‘to check the unauthorized emigration’ of Jews.
      ….
      Support for appeasement of Hitler was common among the British establishment during the 1930s. Conservative MPs who publicly opposed the policy, such as Winston Churchill, were threatened with de-selection.

      An other British apology is due to the fact that they sold the bigger part of the Mandate to a Saudi nomadic chief clearly against the decisions of the League of nations and the San Remo resolution

  3. However, his thesis is facile. For one he contradicts himself by saying both that the British thought the Jews had immense power but that they were also politically backward. Which is it?

    • One thing we can be sure of, Wyatt-Herpes, you are a pathetic troll. Say hi to your bros “nat”, “nick-a-Nazi”, jim-jerbyl and adam biggot.

  4. Are you an out of date celebrity who can’t make a come-back? Are you a failed/unsuccessful/obscure academic/writer/artist who isn’t able to make yourself known among your peers in scientific/academic/artistic circles? Are you unable to get your PhD after years of wasted attempts? You don’t have any original thoughts and no hope to put trough any significant scientific/scholarly/artistic project? Your career is in a cul-de-sac? No worries – there is a very easy, very cheap, and a very convenient solution to make yourself an intellectual giant, a known entity, a celebrated popular hero of the academy and the media! Every untalented and lazy failure like yourself can do it so don’t hesitate! All you have to do is to find some absolutely idiotic unoriginal and unscientific crap and to make it a stick to bash Israel and the “Zionists”! You can easily beat other world renown assholes like Shlomo Sand, Norman Finkelstein, Sue Blackwell, Dror Feiler, Gilad Atzmon etc.
    With a bit of luck you can win a free cruise on the Mediterranean in the company of rabid Jew-haters, Muslim terrorists and other assorted losers like yourself!**
    Don’t hesitate, make the first step of your glorious journey to become a Guardian contributor!
    **Due to some technical and insurance difficulties this feature is not guaranteed.

      • ” nick-a-Nazi suffers yet another deadly knock-out”

        I have not yet started reading about Balfour but just to say I see you don’t mind repeating the same witticism each post . I assume you are trying to wear him down rather than seriously suggest the man is a Nazi. I seem to recall they despoiled Europe and tried to kill all the Jews and other minorities.

        Nick becomes one for posting what he considers facts ??and from what Ive read they are pretty mild compared to what Ive seen, if a little abrupt, and challenging on a site which has so much support for Israel . Right back to Balfour.

        • “What he considers facts”…
          The notion, you ignorant twit, that either Herzel or Balfour were “anti-Semites”, or that British were ‘conned’ into granting the Balfour declaration, is anti-Semitic; it is a malicious prevarication designed to usurp the Jews’ right to self-determination in Israel.
          Not surprising though that you would support a Fascist(in “Nick”); like I said, you’re already en route to becoming one yourself.

          • Not only that, Rascal, but you’ve now been named a twit (a silly or foolish person) several times independently. It just might be time for you to seriously consider why that is.

  5. What ever Balfour thought or not is irrelevant . What relevant is that the Leage of Nation voted in San Remo for the creation of a national home for the Jews in Palestine.

  6. Alexa is exactly right. The declaration, incorporated in the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, became part of international law, by which (Article 2) “The Mandatory [the UK] shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home”. As per Article 6, “The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.” At the time, mandatory Palestine included not only the whole territory from the Jordan to the sea, but what later became Trans-Jordan, now known as Jordan.

    • “The Mandatory [the UK] shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home”.
      And Great Britain failed to do exactly that which they were required to do under the law. They can apologize for that. Because of this the zionist jews had to take matters into their own hands and build a state from the ground up – a national liberation movement in the true sense.
      Does Mr. Renton want to apologize to the “Palestinians” about creating an expectation for a “Palestinian” state, i.e., a country for a nationality that wasn’t?

      • I wonder whether this pseudo-historian whines about the creation of such artificial entity as Jordan. that consisted of 80% of the Mandate.

        Nah, no Jews to bash, no fun.

  7. Weren’t it for the Balfour declaration, that the UK would never had received a mandate on 3/4 of the Middle East and enjoyed such lofty place in the League of Nations, the Allies, or the UN Security Counsel.
    The UK received the mandate to free the people on the land with it was entrusted to administer until the native populations were able to administer themselves:
    The Jews were supposed to receive all of “Palestine” , the Kurds were supposed to be granted autonomy, while the Arabs would get Nedj, Hadj and the portion of ancient Assyria Which is now called Irak (minus it Kurdish 1/3).
    Instead of this, UK split Kurdistan in 5 portion and gifted it to 1) Turkey, 2) Iran, 3 Irak, 4) the French Mandate of Syria-Lebanon (which also received the Golan from the “Palestine” portion of the British Mandate), 5 a sliver to Armenia as consolation price for its suffering under the Ottoman Empire. UK chose to regroup Nedj and Hadj under its ally the Prince Saud and gift Irak to his cousin Hussein (which he promptly lost to an uprising). UK went back two years later to the League of Nations and requested to section “Palestine” along the Jordan River and the Dead Sea, under the claim (false at that time) that too any Arabs would be displaced if all “Palestine” were to be given to the Jews and that, since the Jews and Arabs didn’t get along, it would be better to separate the two populations. They said that they would supervise the exchange of populations and, under that condition, the League of Nations relented. The UK gave the new “Transjordan” territory to Prince Hussein (in compensation for loosing Irak), renamed “Palestine” the portion between the river and the sea, and proceeded to expel all the Jews from Transjordan. However, they did not expel the Arabs from Jewish Palestine, as they had promised. On the contrary, they blocked the immigration of European, Yemenite, and African Jews and encouraged the local Arabs to stage pogroms against the Jews who had always lived in the old cities of Safed, Jerusalem, Hebron, etc. were they had lived without interruption for the past 3400 years. By 1947, the UK had created the condition for an extermination war of the Jews in the Middle East and chose to leave so as not to be held responsible (it would look bad after the Shoah just happened in Europe). Sixty six years later, the UK still enjoys an international prestige out of proportion with its objective importance in world affairs, based on having written the Balfour Declaration and been a member of the Allies during WW2.
    Denouncing that document after milking it for close to a hundred years for petrol, political influence, and prestige, it is quite a shameful move, wouldn’t you say?

    • This is a very interesting post and helpful for me as I am trying to understand the ME.

      One point. “By 1947, the UK had created the condition for an extermination war of the Jews in the Middle East ” could have been better put as it is trying to suggest the Arabs were going to “exterminate the Jews”.

      Two years after the 45 war, this can only mean “Just like the Nazis “..whereas the history of the Jews in the so called Arab lands , for the previous thousand years , tho often brutal and humiliating ,was never seen as one where the use of the word ” exterminate ” is even vaguely appropriate.

      • Actually, during his meeting with Hitler, the Mufti of Jerusalem agreed that the Arabs would take on the part of making the Middle East Judenfrei (free of Jews), Just as Germany had taken the task to do so for Europe.

        • “Mufti… making ME Judenfrei ( free of Jews) ”

          The mufti.. The one Muslim leader that fought for Hitler. You may wish to attempt to associate the Arabs with the Nazis based on a single guy but it doesn’t seem a strong argument given that other people were also guilty of associations with the Werhmacht.

          To suggest the Arabs were going to ” exterminate the Jews “is deliberately conflating the Jew/Israeli paradigm , mawkish and corny. It is also insulting the Arabs but that doesn’t seem to be an issue here.

          • Yeah, the Mufti was just an isolated guy, with no influence whatsoever, Let us all apologize for Arabs.

            Once again, rascal boor proves his anti-Semitic credentials. Drop your pathetic mask and try to be honest for once, you twit.

            • One minute Rascal is just a shy and bashful student, full of self-depracation as to his abilities, who’s trying his darnedest and honest-to-goodness best to learn about the M.E., the next he’s an expert on the history and politics of the Arabs. Quite a bullshitter.

          • Oh Really? I guess you haven’t yet read about the pogroms in Jerusalem and Hebron in 1928.
            Whatever the Mufti of Jerusalem said was followed without even the time to see whether or not he was lying.
            He declared on the radio that the Jews had invaded the esplanade of the mosques (the Temple Mount) and had murdered Muslims. The next day the Jewish population of Hebron was massacred by their Arab neighbors. No one bothered to verify what the very respected -almost worshiped- Mufti had said. Had they bothered, they would have know that not only it was false (the Jews hadn’t even approached the mosques), but it was downright absurd as most of them had been at home celebrating the Shabbat on that day.

  8. Actually I agree with Renton in one respect – and, for Roscoe’s benefit, I have read carefully into this period of history. The British should apologise, not because the Balfour declaration was made, or that it promised the establishment of a Jewish state (which it clearly did) but for their spineless, weak and unprinicpled approach to the management of the Mandate.

    They changed their policy at whim, promising one thing to the Hashemites, another (often conflicting) to the Kurds, the Jews, the Sauds, various other groups of Arabs, the French, the US and just about every other interested party and then went back on those promises on a regular basis.

    The big problem with the Balfour Declaration is that it was (deliberately, I suggest) vague, leaving much open to the interpretation of historians. Possibly the biggest ambiguity was in the phrase “the establishment IN PALESTINE of a national home for the Jewish people”. What does “in Palestine” mean?

    Does it mean in ALL of Palestine? In PART of Palestine (i.e. “within” Palestine)? If so, in WHICH part? This ambiguity has lead to a great deal of strife, and has never been properly cleared up, neither by San Remo, nor by the UN despite nearly 70 years of interference, hundreds of resolutions and thousands of lost lives (on all sides).

    • Well, that’s certainly the way the League of Nations understood it and the British government could have brought correction if that’s not what they meant.

  9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal%E2%80%93Weizmann_Agreement
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_conference
    The decisions of the San Remo conference confirmed the mandate allocations of the First Conference of London (February 1920). The San Remo Resolution adopted on 25 April 1920 incorporated the Balfour Declaration of 1917. It and Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations were the basic documents upon which the British Mandate for Palestine was constructed.

  10. “However, his thesis is facile. For one he contradicts himself by saying both that the British thought the Jews had immense power but that they were also politically backward. Which is it?”

    There is no contradiction. It is certainly true that, as Renton says, “Figures like Balfour and Prime Minister Lloyd George thought that Jews possessed immense power, especially in the U.S. and Russia” and that they hoped to use support for Zionism to keep those countries onside in the war effort. Belief in Jewish influence was probably greatly exaggerated, as Renton again makes clear.

    The full quote on ‘political backwardness’ runs as follows:
    “The ruling assumption was that Jews, and to a greater extent Arabs, were politically backward; they would not expect to obtain real political independence. The Jews would be happy, so the logic ran, with the development of the Zionist project but without statehood”.

    So British politicians believed that Jews had great political influence in US/Russia and that Zionist ambitions for their homeland were limited. They were wrong on both counts, as Renton says, but there is no contradiction.

  11. I agree with The Hungarian chap the British should apologize for colluding with the Nazis and for turning away many Jewish refugees from their shores as the European Jews tried to escape pogroms against them in Europe.

  12. James Renton is a lecturer at somewhere calling itself Edge Hill “University”, of which I confess I have never heard. So he’s not exactly in David Starkey’s class is he?

    • The point is whether his article is basically true, Andy. In my view it is – on all important issues. If you disagree why not challenge his facts rather than belittling his place of work.

      • Would you take seriously, say, a thesis from the Lumumba University? Like the holocaust denialist doctorate thesis of Abu Mazen? Surely you would, prof manqué.

      • Um, not to be a sticky wicket, but A) Renton’s facts have been challenged for being a mix of incomplete items and, well, non-facts and B) lovely folks like you have rushed in to declare “I don’t mind, I agree with him anyway!” The purpose of both this article and site is not to convince people like you–folks who made up their minds and locked them up–and while you’re welcome to continue bothering everyone with your time-wasting, in the end the fraction of time spent disproving and then ignoring your offal can’t compare to the time spent taking your heroes’ pet arguments and more or less burning them to the ground.

        • ” The purpose of both this article and site is not to convince people like you”

          What is its purpose then? I have not just said “I agree with him anyway!” but have pointed out in some detail why the Millett article is illogical and inaccurate. No-one has challenged what I said (see above). Instead we get people like you who seem to have plenty of time to create ever more inane abuse but who are just too busy to deal with any of the arguments with which you disagree.

          Gerald occasionally makes a rational argument, as does pretzelberg, when he is not in gnomic mode (look it up), but most of the rest of you are just raving nutters.

          • “…but most of the rest of you are just raving nutters.” sencar-the-prof-manqué

            Is that so? So why you keep posting in here? Just STFU and get lost.

      • No, Sencar, the article doesn’t bear the slightest resemblance with truth. It claims the Balfour Declaration was the act upon which Israel was created on Arab land.
        As many of us have shown (had you bothered to actually read the comments), it was not the Balfour Declaration, but the League of Nations which made the decision to re-create a Jewish National home in “Palestine”, based on the stipulation proposed in the Balfour Declaration.
        To begin, the Land, at the time belonged to the Ottoman Empire and the UK wasn’t entitled to make any decision without a mandate from the League of Nations.
        The fact the the UK had to go back an request permission to separate Transjordan from Cisjordan along the river and the Dead Sea tends to prove that it had no absolute authority, but just a delegation of powers from the multinational assembly.
        What the UK did afterwards, it should indeed apologize for.
        a) it moved -as promised- the Jewish population from Irak (which it had created on another mandate territory it supervised) and Transjordan into Cisjordan, but without any compensation for the properties they had to abandon.
        b) it failed to move -as promised- the Arab population from Cisjordan into Transjordan and encouraged pogrom on the Jewish population native of Cisjordan (Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron)
        c) it “gifted” Transjordan to the leader of the Hashemite tribe (an Arab prince from Nedj) when it had promised to the League of Nations to make it the national Homeland of the Palestinian Arabs.
        d) it “gifted” the French mandate of Syria-Lebanon with the Golan Height, which were part of the Palestine mandate and therefore to be shares by Cis and Transjordan.
        e) the UK, in contrast to the instructions of the mandate they received, not only didn’t facilitate the immigration of European Jews into “Palestine”, it produced the “little White Book” sharply limiting the number of Jews who could come into the territory reserved for them by the League of Nation.
        f) and that’s the greatest apology the UK owes both Jews and Arabs: it left after making a mess of its mandate and creating the conditions of a war of attrition between Jews and Arabs.
        BTW, I am qualified to teach French, English, World History-Geography at College level as a Graduate from UCSB (MA)

  13. The lady on the picture seems to be bored to death and intensely concentrating on her manicure. Maybe she is under the influence of the Zionists’ secret thought control rays?

  14. Labenal – It means from the river to the sea which the Palestinians hope will soon be free.

    I think Britain should be charged with stealing and others for receiving stolen goods.

    The relevance of the League of Nations is the same as that of the Founding Fathers in North America. The Natives do not recognize either’s authority.

    • Oh, adam biggot, another cousin of “Natzie” returns.

      Listen, MORON, the natives also don´t recognize the territories stolen by islamic imperialism. Why aren´t you whining about that? Go to islamic sites and tell them all to go back to the desert.

      Pathetic sock-puppeteer.

      • ” cousin of “Natzie” ..MORON, ..Pathetic sock-puppeteer.”

        You make quite a case . Also no one could ever accuse you of being inconsistent as you seem to often make this case .

        • And what is your “case”, Rascal? Let’s review, shall we? You began your pathetic career in this blog by whining; then immediately sided with the blatant anti-Semite “nick-a-Nazi”; babbled BS about daddy and infamous in-laws; spread anti-Israel lies; made condescending remarks about Israel’s “relevance”; displayed an amazing ignorance about basically everything while giving smug sanctimonious lectures, etc, etc, etc,

          Yeah, quite a case you have. Summarizing, you are a shameless arrogant twit, aka a prototypical eurotrash.

          • “blatant anti-Semite “nick-a-Nazi”; ..prototypical eurotrash.”

            Where do you get the energy to find hilarious new monikers? Im sorry I start to answer your posts then get sidetracked by your wonderful name calling . Just to say I am sorry you think I side with Nick the Nazi but you have still not shown me evidence of his Naziism .

            And seeing as you are so quick to call me these hilarious names for no reason at all I can only surmise Nick the Nazi is probably not really a Nazi at all.

            I did love “prototypical eurotrash ” tho.

            • Somebody wo introduces himself by defending a Nazi, boasting of famous inlaws and linking to huffpost has no credentials.

              • “Somebody who introduces himself by defending a Nazi, ”

                Fritz how could I know he was a Nazi… it wasn’t obvious from his posts and when I asked for an explanation I was told I was an anti semitic lover of Nazis who probably could use a wash. No links .

                As for the Huff post I thought I explained that it was the first time I had ever read it I didn’t know that it too, like the Guardian ,the BBC and now the Telegraph ,was a hot bed of Iranian -supporting Hamas -loving appeasers.

                I repeat I will attack Nick the alleged Nazi when I see a link to evidence that he is a Nazi.

                • “I repeat I will attack Nick the alleged Nazi when I see a link to evidence that he is a Nazi.” Rascal Burnout

                  I call you a filthy anti-Semite as you presented enough evidence that you are. No, go swim in the Thames.

                • It is none of your business to defend or attack NSNick. Watch out for your own shortcomings.

    • Whether the “Natives” recognize or not the authority of the League of Nations is completely irrelevant.
      The UN, when it was founded, swore to uphold ALL the resolutions taken by the League of nations therefore, since the “Natives” -both Jews and Arabs- have formally recognized the authority of the UN, they are also bound by the League’s decisions CQFD.

    • If you don;t recognize the Leage of Nations than you don;t recogize the UN . It wasn;t a Jewish or zionist organzation , it was an international body who was replaced by the UN . Article 80 of the UN Charter established that nothing in the UN Charter should be “construed to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments.

  15. Fritz Pay attention the Holocaust was in the thirties and forties the pogroms were ln the late 19th Century and early 20th century and preceded the holocaust. Yes, later they were also escaping the Holocaust.

    • Jim, I am afraid you aren’t paying attention to the conversation:
      We aren’t referring to the pogroms in Russia and Ukraine, but to the ones in the Middle East which took place from 1928 to 1947 on the “Cisjordanian” part of “Palestine” AKA State of Israel since 1948.

  16. Fritz really do you think those who were committing pogroms were pro-Semitic. You really are a moron who needs to get to grips with racist anti-Semitic European History. Perhaps you need to read widely and not just succumb to Zionist racist propaganda. Many Muslims originate from those who followed different faiths that preceded Prophet Mohammad. That is why all Jewish Prophets are revered in Islam with Abraham as their head. Get to grips with ancient history, medieval and colonial history and throw away all that racists have been teaching you.

    • Then, Jabal, are you ready to throw away the racist Hadith?

      “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews , when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

      Is that how you revere the Jews, in Pakistan?(of which, there are none; in the glorious “Islamic Republic”)

    • An Islamist like you is per definition an antisemitic idiot, learn your verses, because history, science etc. you won`t understand.

      • Yes there were. 1 in particular is hard to hear about as both the Algerian and the French governments aren’t too keen to have it become general knowledge.
        I am speaking of the Abd El Kader “army” taking the Jews of the Mellah (the Arab version of the Ghetto) of Mascara to the desert to die as a “revenge” on the French for colonizing Oran.
        By miracle 1/2 the Jews survived and found their way to Mostaganem, where the women, elders, and children settled, while the men returned to Mascara and recaptured the town just before the French could.

  17. Commentary101 you are a tree of knowledge in a desert full of Bedouins driven out of their homes and trees planted using funds from the racist Jewish National Fund.

    • So I take it you won’t be repudiating the Hadith?
      You prefer to remain a racist then? A grim choice, Jabal. But what can one expect from a denizen of an “Islamic Republic”(where anti-Semitism, per the Hadith, is state-sanctioned)?

      • He longs to be with moronic dhimmis like Rascal Burnout, who will even say sorry while the Adebolajos are cutting his eurotrash throats. He’d say there’s no evidence whatsoever that they really hate the West.

    • How come you people have no problem with Hamas driving people out of their homes for the sake of building a mosque in Gaza?

  18. “Wyatt-Herpes”

    Another gem of satire with the added bonus of hint of sexual depravity , I can see that Im going to have to stay on my toes in such company . Just to say that in the UK the weather is wonderful I was in swimming which is why I ve stopped posting..don’t worry… I still find your posts hilarious.

    • Yet another empy-babble by Rascal Burnout.

      Enjoy your decadent eurotrash existence while it lasts. Don’t forget to pay homage to your infamous in-laws.

  19. It’s an interesting debate but here’s the bottom line: the Muslims of the Middle East simply cannot tolerate the existence of a small group of Jews on a tiny strip of land and in control of their own country and destiny.

    That last bit is where the crux is. Muslims would tolerate Jews down through the centuries as long as Jews remained second or third-class citizens and didn’t get too uppity. There were even periods of benevolent rule by Muslims over Jews in between the oppression and the pogroms.

    But let this small group of Jews have the nerve to establish a modern, thriving country on their ancient homeland with freedom of religion and human rights for all and Muslims go crazy.

    Those who trash Israel would be better employed taking a look at what the Jewish state is up against: the hatred pouring out of the Muslim world against this small group of Jews is truly astonishing. Those on the left of the political spectrum avert their eyes from this phenomenon and pretend that all would be peace and light in the Middle East if only the Jews would withdraw to indefensible boundaries and allow the establishment of yet another failed, radical Arab state a few miles from Tel Aviv.

    Thing is, not even the internecine Arab butchery in countries like Syria, Libya and Iraq will persuade these deluded idealists that Israel is not to blame for the strife in the Middle East.

    • I don’t believe any more that these people are “deluded idealists”. They may be ideologues but they are not deluded. They embraced a belief system base on Jew-hatred: that’s the only plausible explanation for their persistent dishonesty, glaring double-standards, fact-avoidance, relentless lying and disinformation.

  20. “They embraced a belief system base on Jew-hatred: that’s the only plausible explanation”

    Its the only explanation that doesn’t attract allegations of anti Semitism or having your name made into an hilarious moniker. A possible other explanation is that a small population a few generations ago is now a big ,very strong population and ordinary people are disturbed by the changes.

    You call it Jew Hatred which seems to be your answer to every single question but no one likes sudden surges of immigration into their country. Its never positive in the short term

    • “A possible other explanation is that a small population a few generations ago is now a big ,very strong population and ordinary people are disturbed by the changes.” Rascal Buffoon

      In sum, “ordinary people” are afraid when Jews are strong, can defend themselves and won’t allowed themselves to be exterminated, as when you eurotrash tried to do. No wonder you sided immediately with nick-a-Nazi the moment you start posting your crap in here: you are an accomplished anti-Semite indeed. Deal with that. Don’t be shy. Try to have some balls for once in your pathetic existence.Your famous in-laws would be proud of you.

      • “you are an accomplished anti-Semite indeed. .”

        Well I must be some chap. As a child I understood an anti semite to be one who attacked and endangered the lives of Jewish people but it seems now to be someone who disagrees with Ser Jew on whether someone should be called a Nazi with no evidence.

        If someone cuts in front of you on the freeway what do you call them?

        • ‘Well I must be some chap’
          Yes Rosco you must be something, although I don’t think ‘chap’ is the appropriate word to describe you.

          “As a child I understood….”
          Yes Rosco but you are no longer a child and as it is written in 1 Corinthians 13:11
          “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”
          So Rosco when are you going to put away childish things and start thinking as an adult?

        • “Well I must be some chap.” Rascal Burned

          You must be some twit.

          You sided with nick-a-Nazi; you lied about Israel; you babbled BS about Israel’s “relevance”; you sided with adam biggots (another Jew-hater); etc.

          Just like the eurotrash of the past, you endanger the life of Jewish people by enabling anti-Semites. The difference is that now Jews can defend themselves while you are becoming pathetic dhimmis in the hands of the Adebolajos. Good for you.

    • “A possible other explanation is that a small population a few generations ago is now a big ,very strong population and ordinary people are disturbed by the changes.” – dull Rascal
      Do you actually believe that crap? What an idiot.

  21. In answer to the title of this thread, “Britain should apologise for the Balfour Declaration.”, my answer is no.
    Not then,
    Not now, and
    Not in the future.

    Clear enough?

  22. Gerald – Britain has a lot to apologize for. It still has not properly apologized for the various massacres British forces committed in India. Britain has been the prime mover historically in some of the world’s most persistent conflicts. Palestine is the one that has perhaps endured the longest. If Britain had not occupied Palestine and had not promised to the Zionists today we would not have over 4 million Palestinian refugees, we would not have occupied Palestine, we would not have house demolitions in Jerusalem and Apartheid Israel.

    I

    • “If Britain had not occupied Palestine….”
      You mean if Britain and other Allied forces had not liberated the area from oppressive rule by the Ottoman Empire. Do you have any verifiable evidence that the Ottoman Empire intended to leave the area and give it self determination?

      Ok ‘Jim’ you want apologies for atrocities and persistent conflict.
      So lets start ‘Jim’ with Homo Sapiens apologising for exterminating the Neanderthals, although I accept that contrary to popular opinion some Neanderthals still exist. Evidence of this is provided by some of the anti-Semitic Neanderthals who post here.

    • If Britain had not occupied Palestine and had not promised to the Zionists today we would not have over 4 million Palestinian refugees, we would not have occupied Palestine, we would not have house demolitions in Jerusalem and Apartheid Israel.
      And you wouldn’t have Jews either. Tough luck Wyatt all of you can do is to collect SS memorabilia and dream on the world without us. BTW there must be minimum 40 million Palestinian refugees today, their number is progressing exponentially. Tomorrow they will be 80 million -100million of them children and the other 160 million are woman.
      Your laughable bile about apartheid Israel proves three things:
      You don’t have any idea about apartheid, you don’t have a clue about Israel and you are just repeating laughable slogans you heard at your last PSC meeting from the comrades or read in the Guardian.

      • And Rascal Buffoon, the demented hypo-marxist, are worried that Jews multiply, are strong and can defend themselves. Classical eurotrash Jew-hating style.

        • ” . Classical eurotrash Jew-hating style. ”

          Poetry .They threw away the mould when they made you.

          • “They threw away the mould when they made you”

            But of course in your case Rosco they smashed it! Just to make sure.

  23. Cross post from Geoffff’s Joint

    We should take a special interest in a pending centenary I suggest because some others are taking an interest in another centenary almost to the day and in a very real way especially for Australians they are closely related. The Battle of Beersheba on 31 October 1917 when the Australian Light Horse took the town in what would have been the last successful cavalry charge in military history but for it having been carried out by an infantry regiment.

    Two days later the Balfour Declaration was signed.

    Now Beersheba is a thriving city of 200 000 in the south of Israel with ambitious urban plans. Most are Jews driven from Muslim lands and their descendants. These people are now free and equal citizens in a free state. Since the coming of Islam to the lands where they had lived for generations before the birth of The Prophet that had not been possible. They lived at a formally imposed inferior status or they lived not at all. Where pogroms were a frequent problem they might live not at all anyway.

    There is a movement in Britain to apologise for the Balfour Declaration. There has even been suggestions that the long overdue apology to indigenous Australians is some sort of noble precedent for such a craven rebuttal of truth and history. That is another reason to take an interest in any link. Such a thing strikes as a grave insult to indigenous Australians. Indeed surviving indigenous peoples everywhere. I expect many will agree.

    Full post continues

    http://geofffff.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/apologising-for-balfour-declaration.html

  24. Britain never occupied Palestine as there didn`t exist a Palestine, only osman provinces like that of Jerusalem, of Beirrut or Damascus.
    Jimmie the terror Islamist invents history, naturally, for an undereducated idiot.

  25. The Denial of History
    geoffff

    From any standpoint apologising for the Balfour Declaration would have to be the goofiest campaign since this same squalid witless mob started picketing Australian chocolate shops because of a perceived Israeli/Jewish connection. There is a risk of paying someone like Dr James Renton more attention than he deserves. There are three reasons it should be pursued. It is a very clear example of how far standards of scholarship have slipped and raises again questions about the value of an education from that tier of university. It shows how seamlessly something purporting to be academic opinion merges into blind ideology. It indicates how far the dhimmification of Jews has advanced in the UK and how important antizionist Jews of the far left once again are to what is essentially a genocidal antisemitic campaign.

    I made a start on the outer layers of fatuousness here but almost everything Dr Renton has to say, even in his keyhole take of history, is wrong.

    Dr Renton contends that the Declaration was essentially driven by antisemitic notions of tremendous Jewish power and ignorance about the stretch of Zionism among Jews. British efforts therefore were nothing more than a:

    .. propaganda policy based on mistaken assumptions about Jews, derived from influential anti-Semitic ideas and conceptions of race and nationalism. Figures like Balfour and Prime Minister Lloyd George thought that Jews possessed immense power, especially in the U.S. and Russia. They also believed that most Jews were Zionist. Both of these assumptions were incorrect. The upshot, however, was the Government conclusion that support for Zionism would be a great help to British interests in the war against Germany and its partners.

    The truth of course is that the British adopted the policy because they had decided that there should be a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine. No ambiguities. No sleight of hand. No attempts to play both the Jews and the Arabs for mugs. If there is any racism in this it is in the explicit observation of Dr Renton that the Jews and Arabs were “politically backward”. The Zionists and the Hashemites were tricked by some fast talking Brits? It really is quite bizarre.

    Of course there were Realpolitik considerations in the British decision and in that regard the British calculations were not nearly as racist and ignorant as Dr Renton would have it.

    Zionism had already developed as a strong , well organised movement among the Russian and Ukrainian Jewish communities well before the First World War. November 1917 was also the month of the Bolshevik revolution and British policy was formulated in the fear that the turmoil in Russia would take Russia out of the war. The Declaration had an immediate impact with pro-British articles in the Russian Jewish press and pro-British demonstrations in Odessa and Petrograd.. And if the British overestimated the influence of Zionism in America then so did the Bolsheviks. The founder of the Soviet secret police (Chekka later KGB) supported a soft line on the Zionists given their “considerable influence in Poland and America”.

    Citation

    Wistrich; From Ambivalence to Betrayal ; University of Nebraska ; Chapter 13 From Lenin to the Soviet Black Hundreds pages 419 – 421

    These posts are being emailed to Dr Renton and he has been invited to comment here.

    cross posted Israel Thrives

  26. Fritz DO you still believe Palestinians do not exist? Even Golda Meir changed her mind when over 4 million Palestinians knocked at the door where she was staying with the key to their houses in Palestine. Now everybody recognizes Palestine and Palestinian people as a reality.

    Stolen goods need to be returned. It is no good arguing that my ancestors lived in that place. That may have been true but the ancestors of those who were robbed also lived in that place, except some of them stayed others moved on as it happens. Effectively cousins are stealing from cousins.

    Return the stolen goods, undo the injustice and bring peace and live with your cousins in harmony. Please no more racist remarks about the Arabs or the Muslims. They are the same as anybody else.

    • ” Palestinians do not exist ”

      You are right to call Fritz out even tho his words were “there didn’t exist a Palestine ” a lesser slight on the Palestinians However both are quite terrifying in their implications and I am sure good Israelis would reject such an argument.

      Whatever they called themselves there were non Jews there who formed the overwhelming majority half a dozen generations ago . That’s the issue.

      • According to those who visited “Palestine” during the 19th and early 20th century. The place was pretty much deserted, the majority of inhabitants were Jews, and the only cities with an sizable (over 1,000) Arab population were Hebron and Yaffo.
        Don’t take my words for it: go read the accounts by Lord Byron, Mark Twain, etc.
        You can also consult the British archives which describe the sudden influx of illegal Arab immigrants from Egypt and Syria looking for work at the newly installed Jewish farms and factories.

          • “Lord Byron ? Are you serious ? Famous demographist of the time?”
            That would be Lord Byron, as well as being a famous poet, who was also well known for being an advocate of social reform read his speeches in Parliament in support of the Luddites. Who was also well known for fighting against the tyranny of the Ottoman Empire and for independence for Greece. The same Lord Byron who was opposed to Lord Elgin removing the marbles from the Parthenon.

            By the way Rosco it is demographer not demographist.
            Obviously you are as much a stranger to the English language as you are to the truth.

            • Thank you Gerald. Some people seem to forget the education which was given to a Lord in those days did include a large dose of traveling and general culture.

              • Now, lying scum, the majority in Jerusalem was Jewish at the time mentioned above.
                You and NSNick are obviously brothers in thought.

            • Byron? Yes I do know who Byron is …I seem to recall he died in the 1820s in Greece. 1820s …he will have travelled where exactly and how much time would he have spent surveying the local population?

              A desperate attempt to imply there was a majority Jewish presence in the area.

          • I don’t find his words “savage”, as he was but stating the truth.
            Considering the site from which you got the citation, however, your claim to be an open minded person trying to learn the facts can no longer be afforded the benefit of the doubt.
            You are part and parcel with those who try their best to delegitimize the State of Israel.

          • Did you even read the “source” you brought, idiot? Or do you not even bother?
            Nothing — absolutely nothing within that screed — actually rejects anything Twain had written.
            In fact, they are reduced to whining about Twain’s supposed ‘racism'(mistaking norms of the English language common at that time for prejudice), and thus absolving themselves of any need to actually confront Twain’s account.
            The fact is, he saw it with his own eyes: The land was (mostly) desolate.
            H.B. Tristram, on his travels in Palestine, wrote:(in 1858)

            A few years ago the whole Ghor (Jordan Valley) was in the hands of the fellaheen, and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin, who eschew all agriculture…The same thing is now going on over the plain of Sharon where….land is going out of cultivation and whole villages rapidly disappeared….Since the year 1838, no less than twenty villages there have thus erased from the map, and the stationary population extirpated.

            The population was in (relative) decline, and Ottoman censuses(putting the total Muslim population in Palestine at about 432,000, in 1890) prove it.

            • He´s just doing his dhimmi act, ya know, for fear of having his head cut-off by the next Adebolajo. His infamous in-laws wouldhave approved.

    • Even Golda Meir changed her mind when over 4 million Palestinians knocked at the door where she was staying with the key to their houses in Palestine.
      Two small problems Jim:
      – The Arab population of all Palestine (including the non occupied Judea/Samaria and Gaza) in 1947 was about 1,3 million.
      – We changed the lock a long time ago.

    • “Even Golda Meir changed her mind when over 4 million Palestinians knocked at the door where she was staying with the key to their houses in Palestine”

      Really ‘Jim’ and when exactly did this extraordinary event happen?

  27. Gerald I had hoped she had some humanity and when she noticed the 4 million Palestinians demanding to return to their homes she would have realized the error she made in not acknowledging the existence of the Palestinian people. . Now, if you tell me she did not correct her error I might accept your assertion, and you are probably right, that she did not acknowledge her error but it will be a slur on Golda Meir.

    • ‘Jim’ stop dancing around.
      YOU claimed in your post JULY 1, 2013 @ 4:15 AM that ” Even Golda Meir changed her mind when over 4 million Palestinians knocked at the door where she was staying with the key to their houses in Palestine”

      Surely IF ‘over 4 million Palestinians knocked at the door where she was staying..’ someone would have noticed.
      So when exactly did this extraordinary event happen?

  28. Gerald Grow up – The world has noticed over 4 million Palestinians demanding their right to return to their homes. The UN recognizes them as refugees from Palestine with a right to return to their homes. I cannot imagine a Prime Minister of the state that has a claim from such a big number would have not noticed. Besides she acknowledged the Palestinians wanting to return to their homes.

    Here is Golda Meir speaking to the Knesset

    “Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen.”
    — Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

    • Here’s something else Golda Meir said, with which you cannot argue(of course, arguments not being your ‘forte’ — they don’t teach self-criticism and introspection in Pakistan):

      There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.

      Meir was — and is –, in that respect, right on all counts.

      • they don’t teach self-criticism and introspection in Pakistan

        What a nasty little bit of bigotry there. Supported as usual by the mental midgets who infest this site.

    • Jim we are used to the subzero IQ level of your kind but repeating the number 4 million when every possible source estimates (even the Palestinian “historians” themselves) the number of Arab refugees less than one million is somehow points to your extremely feeble mind and total lack of understanding simple facts. Why not 40 million? Don’t be a fusspot…

  29. Gerald I tried. I do not think you will ever get it. You need to remove your goggles supplied by racists to be able to engage in an adult conversation.

    As for Commentary101 What can I say Golda Meir’s assertions of the non-existent of the Palestinian people and at the same time denying them the right to return to their homes in order to protect the Jewish nature of Israel is contradictory. If they did not exist how can they destroy the Jewishness of Israel. Why would you ask those who supported Palestinians returning to their homes how would you protect the Jewish state if the Palestinians returned to their homes if they did not exist?.

    Most racist are deluded because reality cannot match their racism as racism is abhorrent for humanity and races do not exist. We are all one race whether you adopt the religious narratives of any of the three major monotheistic faiths or if you adopt many of the other narratives with or without God. Golda Meir, as a racist, was no exception. She was delusional

    • “Gerald I tried. I do not think you will ever get it”
      No, ‘Jim’ you lied, and yes I do get it. You have confirmed, if it needed confirming, that you are a liar with no credibility whatsoever.

    • What can I say Golda Meir’s assertions of the non-existent of the Palestinian people and at the same time denying them the right to return to their homes in order to protect the Jewish nature of Israel is contradictory. If they did not exist how can they destroy the Jewishness of Israel.

      Oh FFS you know what she meant.

  30. What year did the British make an Israeli state between 1917 and 1947? Never.
    How much land did the British give the Jews between 1917 and 1948? Zero

    The East Bank was part of the Mandate borders of 1917 and the Brits gave the Entire East Bank to the Arabs and named the country after the Jordan River.
    (Jordan) Jordan is 75% of the land. So James Renton learn some history.
    Israel has 20% of the land, which they won after defeating the 5 invading Armies in 48. The Arabs right now have 80% of the land. Jordan also passed a law stating their country must be Jew free, pretty much like all the Arab countries.
    Oh but wait, there are 10 Jews in Yemen.
    The only thing the British did was give out a white paper in 39 barring all Jewish immigration while letting in thousands of Arabs.

    Here’s a good article how the British have always supported the Arabs over Israel.
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4371351,00.html
    In the service of the Palestinians
    Op-ed: In light of its dark past, Britain’s involvement in building of PA’s army very problematic
    Elyakim Haetzni
    04.23.13,

    • Israel has 20% of the land

      Oh please. Not that old chestnut. You talk as if Israel had a claim to what is now Jordan!

  31. I do not know what the Europeans or the Americans who had just completed a genocide by the 19th century of those they visited from Europe in the Americas say about the Palestinians and do I care? Should anybody care? We should leave behind us the colonial narratives that had been the justifications for the extermination of the natives in their millions behind and not promoting them.

    In the 21st Century Humanity is not prepared to accept the genocides and the narratives that go to justify those genocides.

    What matters is those who lived in the region knew who they were, what was theirs and what rights anybody visiting them had. The natives did not acknowledge the racist narratives of their guests and rejected them.

    I, as anti-racist, denounce the colonial narratives of Twain and others.

  32. I do not know what the Europeans or the Americans who had just completed a genocide by the 19th century of those they visited from Europe in the Americas say about the Palestinians and do I care? Should anybody care? We should leave behind us the colonial narratives that had been the justifications for the extermination of the natives in their millions behind and not promoting them.

    In the 21st Century Humanity is not prepared to accept the genocides and the narratives that go to justify those genocides.

    What matters is those who lived in the region knew who they were, what was theirs and what rights anybody visiting them had. The natives did not acknowledge the racist narratives of their guests and rejected them.

    I, as anti-racist, denounce the colonial narratives of Twain and others.

    • You as a faux antiracist denounce the facts as a well known habit of your kind of “human right activists”.
      In the 21st Century Humanity is not prepared to accept the genocides and the narratives that go to justify those genocides.
      Like in Syria?

    • Jabal, we’ve been over this:
      As a self-styled “anti-Racist”, do you reject the explicit anti-Semitism, anti-Christian sentiments, and general racism of the Hadith and Qu’ran?
      Come now, don’t be shy! Tell us what sort of “narratives” they preach in the sanctified “Islamic Republic”(Pakistan).

    • John, calling Mark Twain and Lord Byron colonialists show that you are totally ignorant of history and therefore cannot present a historically relevant argument.
      Furthermore, were I to accept your postulate, as a native of the Middle East with deeper (by 3400 years) roots than the Muslim “guests” who colonized us until my people managed to re-claim our homeland, I feel perfectly justified in refusing to acknowledge the very antisemite and racist Arabo-Muslim narrative of the Middle East history to which you have chosen to subscribe.

    • “I, as anti-racist, denounce the colonial narratives of Twain and others.”

      Woo-hoo! Burn your bra, sister Stan!

  33. Hungarian, I particularly reject European racism whether from Eastern Europe or Western European racists.
    I particularly reject the ex member of the National Front, William Hague as Foreign Secretary funding those who are spreading sectarian violence in the Middle East and particularly in Syria.

    One thing I will say about European racists they are not consistent. One minute they are fighting Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and Iraq, the next minute they are financing the same ideologues to breed sectarian violence in Syria. I am getting fed up of the long history of European meddling in other peoples affairs. They should all return home to their European enclaves where they can defend whatever they think is inherent to their being.

    • “I particularly reject the ex member of the National Front, William Hague as Foreign Secretary”

      When was William Hague a member of the National Front?
      I can remember him as a schoolboy making a speech that has been televised countless times to the Conservative Party conference, but, a member of the National Front, no.

      So Mr. Bosworth when was William Hague a member of the National Front?
      Either substantiate your claim or withdraw it. Of course you can always behave like ‘Jim’ and make silly statements then when challenged run away with your tail between your legs and yelping like a whipped cur.

    • I’m genuinely interested to hear which European colonists are in your mind who should return to their European homes.

    • I’m getting fed up of the log history of Islamic imperialists-plunderers-psychos meddling in other peoples’ affairs. They should all return home to their primitive caves in the desert where they can go on killing each other and raping goats or whatever is inherent to their being.

    • European governments are financing Al-Qaida to breed sectarian violence in Syria?

      You really do need to stop visiting those dodgy websites.

  34. I assumed he recruited you. So work it out from there. Nevertheless irony is lost on you. They used to say racists are simpletons. You are a living proof. I assume you are now going to argue Hague has not an iota of racism within him some of his best friends are Black.

    • So Mr Bosworth you have no evidence of any kind that William Hague was ever a member of the National Front.
      Now scamper off back to your kennel. Before you sink into the cesspit of your own lies and garbage.

  35. Hungarian racists for a start. However, if they throw away their racist attire they can stay wherever they are. If they insist they want to maintain their European enclaves in Asia, it is time they return to Europe.

    • Bosworth your posts are becoming more and more interesting containing a lot of until now not known information. Could you point out where is the Hungarian/European enclave in Asia? I’m genuinely interested to know this too…

        • peter there is a problem with racism in Europe and it is the cancer of anti-Semitism thinly disguised as criticism of Israel by Bosworth/Wayne and Dim Jim and their kind.
          At least one European leader understands,
          (ANSA) – Jerusalem, July 1 – Italian Premier Enrico Letta on Monday said “the Shoah is an open wound which tears the land of Jerusalem and will always concern us”. Speaking during a visit to Jerusalem, Letta cited late Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini – who once said “it is not enough to be against, it is necessary to be for the Jewish people” – and also noted that ‘anti-Semitism is a cancer of humanity and a threat for the peace of all populations”.

          “We must not and do not want to ever let our guard down,” especially “at a time when the germs of anti-Semitism appear in our beloved Europe,” Letta said after visiting the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem.

  36. Jimmie, Johnnie, Natzie, it is always the same undereducated Islamist who invents a country which didn`t exist. There were only Osman provinces and the British Mandate, everything else is a lie.

    • Indeed, I still don’t get why those sock-puppeteers are allowed in here. And the monikers are hilarious: Jim Jerbyl, David Whine, Jim Wyatt-Herpes, Adam Biggots, John Worthless, Rascal Burnout. 🙂

  37. ” Indeed, I still don’t get why those sock-puppeteers are allowed in here. ”

    You have to be a little bit careful .If you get rid of every single voice that doesn’t start with Nazi name calling and hilarious monikers , the site would look suspiciously like an East German election result explained to 6 year olds

    It needs occasional dissidents for credibility.

  38. Gerald argues it is racist to deny those who consider themselves superior races the right to ethnically cleanse their neighborhoods of those they consider inferior races or races they cannot live with. It is a novel argument, even in Apartheid South Africa nobody suggested calling the Blacks racist but in Apartheid Israel, the racist are calling those who oppose racism racist. Is this an acknowledgement that Zionists are losing the argument to maintain Apartheid Israel? In which case I applaud the development. However, things have to go much further. The wall has to brought down and the Palestinians given their rights, including that of returning to their homes.

    • ‘Jessy’ while I appreciate that English is not the first language of the majority of people on this planet, and clearly it is a language you are not proficient in.
      It does help the flow of debate if you put your argument in a logical manner and not just string together phrases that you obviously do not understand. It also helps if you do not resort to lies and half truths as that just demonstrates your lack of credibility.
      Now when you and your ilk are capable of putting together a logical argument that is coherent and does not rely on half truths, lies and fabrications, I will reply. But on present evidence I will not hold my breath while waiting.

  39. Gerald, you fully understand what I am saying despite my deficient English. You are only trying to avoid facing the truth. You need to acknowledge the racist nature of the Zionist state of Israel that is based on ethnic cleansing. What is being done to the Bedouin villages in Israel is unacceptable. The house demolitions in Jerusalem are against the norms of decent human behavior., The exclusive settlements in the West Bank are thoroughly racist. The continued siege of Gaza. is against International Law and Humanitarian norms.

    • ‘Jessy’ it is not your deficient English.
      It is mainly your deficient logic and your dislocated relationship with the truth.
      I have no problem in facing the truth even when the truth is disturbing.
      When you write such spurious and hackneyed phrases as “You need to acknowledge the racist nature of the Zionist state of Israel that is based on ethnic cleansing”, I doubt if you know or would accept the truth even when it is pointed out to you.

      • Indeed. Referring to “the racist nature of the Zionist state of Israel that is based on ethnic cleansing” is verbal diarrhoea in any language.

  40. Gerald perhaps you can explain why, according to the UN, there are today over 4 million Palestinian refugees. Also, you are quite free to do the count yourself by visiting the countries in the region and counting the Palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc. Please do not respond with childish comments like there were no Palestinians and they are not Palestinians but Arabs etc. True, they are Arabs. However they are Palestinians as well just like French are Europeans and French.

    • Walker perhaps you can explain why are you posting here under different names like Dawid Wyatt, John Bosworth and Jessy Walker? Do you suffer from split personalities? You must be the famous case of the guy who thought himself being three pussycats playing with each other…
      And it would be interesting to know your explanation of the slight antagonism between the number 4 million refugees today and the 1.3 million Palestinians lived in the British Mandate in 1947?

      • ” your explanation of the slight antagonism between the number 4 million refugees today and the 1.3 million Palestinians lived in the British Mandate in 1947? ”

        Two generations of children would do the trick and then some. Unless you are suggesting that the Palestinians who were disenfranchised in 48 can come back but their children can stay in that squalid flat?

        • Unless you are suggesting that the Palestinians who were disenfranchised in 48 can come back but their children can stay in that squalid flat?
          Yes Rosco, accordiing to the UNHCR the definition of a refugee doesn’t include those who have born outside the involved territory. The Palestinians are the exceptions. Why?

    • Forgive me for butting in, Jessy and Gerald.

      Jessy – some basic misunderstandings.

      1. Nobody denies that there were Arabs displaced as a result of the wars in 1947/8 and 1967. These people could legitimately be called refugees (although I hope you will acknowledge that there is dispute over why these people became refugees – some say the Israelis “ethnically cleansed” them, others that they were encouraged to leave by the surrounding armies to “clear the way” for the attacks on the new Jewish state).

      2. Do you recognise that at the same time these original Arab refugees were created, there was a similar number of Jewish refugees, expelled from many countries around the Arab world? These people have all, without exception, made new lives for themselves – many in Israel, others in Britain, the US and other countries.

      3. The Palestinians are unique in history in that the children and grandchildren of the original refugees are similarly called “refugees” by the UN, hence an original (estimated) 800,000 are now said to be 4 million or more.

      4. The Palestinians are unique in history in that these “refugees” apparently retain their status as such despite the fact many of them have made new lives for themselves in countries around the world. I have met people describing themselves as Palestinian “refugees” and demanding a right to return to Haifa etc who were born, live, work and studied in London just as I did. Bizzare!

      5. The Palestinian “refugees” are unique in human history in that they have been kept in “refugee camps” in places such as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc for more than 60 years – these nations have NEVER been under Israeli control or “occupation”. You will recall that 10s of millions of people were displaced as a result of WWII just a few years before the modern State of Israel became independent. NOT A SINGLE ONE of these people is still a “refugee”. Yet it seems EVERY SINGLE Palestinian and ALL their descendents are refugees to this day. Many hundreds of thousands of refugees have been created due to conflicts since 1948, yet (apart from the most recent ones) EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people have moved on and found new lives. Yet it seems NOT ONE Palestinian has done so.

      6. There is no automatic or exclusive right to return for refugees. The UN (as I have said many times on this blog) recognises three “durable solutions” – return (repatriation), resettlement and local integration (see http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646cf8.html). The Palestinians have been prevented by their Arab brethren from two of the three, and are unique in human history in demanding only ONE of these solutions.

      I have not said anything here that is hyperbole, political or controversial. All are verifiable facts. Can you dispute any of them?

  41. Peter the Palestinians did not stop dying or giving births. You of all people should know who is claiming the right to return where your ancestors were some thousand years ago. I am sure none of those who left Palestine a millennium ago are still alive or are they? Besides UN recognizes the number I suggested.

  42. Labenal – Read my previous answer as to who has a right of return. Also, no matter why the Palestinians left and I dispute that they left of their own accord. Even Israeli Zionist historians recognize the role the massacres like the one at Dir Yassin played in frightening the Palestinians to leave. However, even if I accept your narrative the Palestinians still have the right of return.

    However, if those who left their homes to go to Israel after 1948, I would be quite happy to support their right to return to their homes.

    • So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that you know better than the UN on the durable solutions for refugees? That there is only one – the “right of return”?

      I disagree with you on the reasons for the Palestinians’ flight, but agree that it is not relevant when thinking about what should be done with them some 65 years later. I would simply retort with this. What happened to those Arabs who stayed? Were they persecuted? Prevented from practicing their religion? Massacred? Subject to racist subjugation? No, in fact they are today 20% of the population of Israel, have more freedom than they would in any Arab country, equal rights to live, work, vote, travel, own land etc etc with any Jew in Israel. Some “apartheid state”!

      I note that you haven’t even attempted to address any of my other points.

  43. Labenal you perhaps live in a different world. The Bedouins in Negev are driven from their homes. This is only one example of what happens to those who stayed. There are ample examples house demolitions in Jerusalem what is happening in West Bank to those who did not stay in 1948 Israeli borders. The settlements are illegal. Extra Judicial killing is common. Palestinians are prevented from freely accessing their places of worship. I do not know what other example will convince you. Perhaps what is being done to the Bedouins in Negev is typical of the suffering of the Palestinians within Israel. Of course, Palestinians are even prevented from marking the catastrophe the experienced in 1948.

    Around 300 Bedouins living in Israel’s Negev desert have been made homeless after police raided their village and razed their homes.

    Israeli activists said 1,500 police arrived in Al-Arakib village at dawn.

    They destroyed 30 to 40 makeshift homes and uprooted hundreds of olive trees belonging to the villagers, they said.

    Police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld said the homes had been “illegally built” and were destroyed in line with a court ruling issued 11 years ago.

    “Several hundred people were taken back to the Rahat area where they originally came from,” he told the AFP news agency, referring to a nearby Bedouin town in Israel’s arid south.

  44. Diversion and selective comment. And you conveniently skip between the status of Israeli citizens and Arab residents in “occupied territories” to muddy the water.

    Do you deny that there are Arabs/Muslims/Christians in all positions in Israeli society? That there are MKs (that’s members of the Israeli parliament) who openly call for the destruction of the state of Israel? Can you even contemplate this being permitted in any other state – in the West, let alone in Israel’s arab neighbours?

    Any comment on the magical nature of Palestinian refugees?

  45. Labenal – Are you denying the Bedouins evacuated from Negev desert are Israelis and their mistreatment does not matter? Besides the treatment of the Palestinians in Jerusalem is also very significant. It is the Palestinians in Israel who are prevented from marking the Nakba. So is is you who is being evasive here. The main issue is the mistreatment of Palestinians since the creation of the state of Israel both within Israel and in occupied territories. I am not interested how Zionists camouflage their abuses of power or how you justify the oppression of a whole people for over half a century. .

    • So no comment on the magical nature of Palestinian refugees, then? You raised this as the issue in your first few posts. You have been challenged. You have changed the subect.

    • Are you denying the Bedouins evacuated from Negev desert are Israelis and their mistreatment does not matter?
      Bullshit Walker. The Negev Bedouins have been settled in permanent settlements in the Negev. No modern developed state tolerates nomadic squatters on their territories. Calling it “driven from their homes” is a bad joke of a disturbed Jew hater.
      Not that I would expect anything else from you.
      BTW Have you ever heard the name Dale-farm? Go and look it up on the internet, maybe you will learn something factual for a change.

  46. Labenal – I have not discussed what I had for breakfast with you today. My fault completely. There is nothing magical about the number of Palestinian refugees. Here are the figures as provided by the UN agencies on refugees.

    Based on the UNRWA definition, the number of original Palestine refugees has declined from 711,000 in 1950[1] to approximately 30 to 50,000 in 2012. In 2012 the number of registered patrilineal descendants of the original Palestine refugees, based on the UNRWA registration requirements, is estimated to be 4,950,000.[2][3][4][5]