Guardian

Analysis the Guardian won’t provide: Why Israel opposes UN forces in the Jordan Valley


As U.S. brokered peace negotiations continue between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, we thought it would be helpful to provide some context regarding reports by Harriet Sherwood that, in any final agreement, Israel wants permission to maintain a military presence in the Jordan Valley. The JCPA created a site dedicated to explaining why Israel feels it cannot withdraw from the area and rely on protection from the UN or other international forces. 

Additionally, here’s a short video, produced by the JCPA, which effectively illustrates Israeli concerns. 

70 replies »

      • Chaim apart from being a pathological liar and an ignorant troll are you a masochist too? The kicking you got here and here wasn’t enough to send you back posting on the Electronic Intifada, Mondoweiss, the PressTV website and the Guardian CIF – the warm homes of Jew/Israel haters? The readers don’t need further proof about your mental and moral abilities so do yourself and the Palestinian cause a favor and tell the nurse that you are better now…

          • Adam, sorry if I’m out of topic here but a question must be asked.
            Chaim, just how do you know that Peter is a Jobnik?
            Do you wear a kofiko or does he?

            • No Itsik he doesn’t know me at all, this is only his maximal efforts to be humorous…
              His sense of humor is a perfect match of his other abilities.

          • Of course Chaim. After your laughable lie about Israeli Palestinians has been debunked and you didn’t have any other argument but to call me Jobnik you declare your heavenly victory. Don’t worry asshole everybody knows this trick since the victorious October war finished from 100 km from Cairo and in the outskirts of Damascus (not speaking about the heavenly victory of the Hezbollah in 2006)…

            • Peter: “not speaking about the heavenly victory of the Hezbollah in 2006…”

              Do you believe res 1706 is not a success for the Arabs?

    • pretzelberg annex or reclaim?

      I support Israel reclaiming all the land that belongs to it, including the Jordan Valley.
      I would support my own country doing it, so how could I not support Israel doing it.

      • Israel keeping the Jordan-Valley (and the Golan Heights) has much more significance than national aspirations and historical facts. After the Israeli electorate witnessed the utter failure of every single UN action using military force to ensure peace or protect civilian population there is no chance at all that any elected Israeli government would give up these territories in the foreseeable future. Maybe after the signing a serious peace agreement with the Palestinians, after some decades of trials (not to speak about a much more stable Middle-East) the subject can be discussed again. But not now.

      • Just recently you said to me:

        By the way pretzelberg it is not the business of those who have left the UK to decide on the approach taken to national security in the UK either. When you live here, work here and pay your taxes here, you have a right to an opinion. Otherwise your opinion has no validity whatsoever so take it and shove it!

        Yet here you are, yet again posting your opinions about Israel and issues concerning its security.

        That makes you a massive hypocrite – which we already knew, of course.

        • Oh dear me pretzelberg try reading my post.
          I asked you if it was ‘annex or reclaim?’

          I then pointed out that as I would support my own country reclaiming land how could I not support Israel doing it.

          You can choose to answer the question or not.

          • Right after you posted your rather hysterical shove-it response to me you must have known it would come back in your face! Tee hee.

            Why are you still here Gerald, given your insistence that individuals have no right to an opinion on countries they do not live in?

            • Still dodging the question pretzelberg.

              I have already answered the question in your second sentence. Even though you have deliberately misquoted my posts, but that is your usual strategy. A pity but not a surprise.

              • I “have deliberately misquoted” your posts? I pasted your above post in straight from the source!

                And no – you have most defintely not been able to resolve your continued posts here with the statement of yours I quoted.

                Why not just admit it was a very silly post of yours?

                • “I “have deliberately misquoted” your posts?”

                  Yes, unless you are incurably thick, you will notice that my post you have pasted @ 9:54 AM does not have the meaning you imply in your post @ 10:48AM

                  Now are you going to ask the question I asked you, in my post @8:54AM, or keep trying to twist and turn?
                  As usual you are getting very boring, even allowing that you are an infant.

                • @ Gerald

                  So I show you up for the hypocrite you are – and your response comprises “incurably thick … boring … an infant.”

                  Fret not, though. Your preposterous “shove it” post will ALWAYS haunt you here.

                • “So I show you up for the hypocrite you are.”

                  No pretzelberg the only person you ever show up is yourself.

                  You really are a sad individual, I don’t know whether to pity you or laugh at you.
                  However unlike St. Paul I do not tolerate fools, particularly whingeing sanctimonious ones, gladly. So my toleration with you is at an end.

                • @ Gezza

                  So are you finally going to follow your own principles and stop posting on CIFW – and any other websites conerning Israeli security and internal affairs?

                  Or will you continue to be a shameless hypocrite?

                  You could, of course, retract your original juvenile shove-it response to me …

                • pretzelberg I am enjoying reading peter, and others, expose your ignorance and making you look like a fool too much to stop reading this site at present.

                  Keep it up peter you remind me of Muhammed Ali at his best dancing around and knocking out pretzelberg.

            • “Tee hee.”

              My apologies pretzelberg.
              I hadn’t realised that you have not yet graduated from Infants School. In future, of course, I will write any questions to you at your proper level, providing of course Mummy and Daddy don’t mind you using their computer.

              • Hmmm …. you don’t have a concept of irony, do you?

                But you’re not the first BTL poster to respond to my posts by swiftly descending to the juvenile/YouTube level.

                • “.. by swiftly descending to the juvenile/YouTube level”
                  Do you mean by using phrases such as “Tee hee.”?

      • I support Israel reclaiming all the land that belongs to it, including the Jordan Valley.

        Ermm … the map you seem to be using is a good two or three millennia out of date.

        • Really? The San Remo conference was held two or three millenia ago?! I was told that it was held in 1920…

          • The San Remo conference judged that the Jordan Valley belonged to Israel??

            Surely you know you’re talking nonsense. So why bother posting it?

            • pretzelberg your stupidity and ignorance has only lower limit. Go and learn something new (for you): Final territory assigned to the Jewish National Home according to the San Remo conference, the Treaty of Sevres and finally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922.
              I’m not sure that you will be able to identify the Jordan valley on the map, it isn’t written on it with capital letters.
              Surely you know you’re talking nonsense. So why bother posting it?
              Surely you don’t know that you are talking laughable nonsense so you will post it anyway…

              • I’m not sure that you will be able to identify the Jordan valley on the map, it isn’t written on it with capital letters.

                You and your mental-midget supporters are so boring and intellectually vapid.

                • I see pretzel you agree with me that
                  a./ the San Remo conference and its follow up treaties designated the Jordan valley as the future Israeli territory so your inane personal attack against me was nothing else but a,,,an inane personal attack due to your total cluelessness and ignorance.
                  b./ my sarcastic assertion that you can’t read a simple map is on the money
                  c./ that due the lack of any factual counterargument you remain loyal the good old tradition – your opponent is correct, you made an idiot of yourself so he and his supporters must be very bad people…

                • @ peter

                  I see pretzel you agree with me that a./ the San Remo conference and its follow up treaties designated the Jordan valley as the future Israeli territory

                  a) San Remo did no such thing – as you know.
                  b) I obviously didn’t agree with you on said point.

                  Two pieces of complete fiction in one sentence! Are you proud of that? Or are you simply losing your marbles?

                • a) San Remo did no such thing – as you know
                  I see so you don’t read maps – you are illiterate too.
                  I repeat the link only for you; please ask an adult to read it.
                  And please do me a favor – if you intend to to reply at all please restrict yourself to the linked document and map clearly showing the line drawn between areas designated to future Jewish and Arab entities according to the San Remo Conference and its follow up the Treaty of Sevres and the decision of the League of Nations in 1922. Further bullshitting won’t do it…

            • You are right. Neither the Balfour Declaration nor San Remo actually say where in Palestine the Jewish national home should be – despite what the jobnik and his mates might say. They were left purposely vague.

              • I see Mr. Wannabe Goebbels reading maps is not your forte either, and I’m not so sure that pretzelberg is proud of you as a newly found competitor in stupidity and ignorance.

                • Chaim thank you for showing here your well thought arguments supported by verifiable facts. But you should take it easier, your hysterical outbursts will damage your obviously very fragile mental health. I can understand your frustration, to be a loser must be very tough. Anything new from your Israeli Palestinian friends? Don’t restrain yourself – spill your frustration freely, it would be a catastrophe to destroy your carpet by chewing it. If you are short of Hebrew curses I can suggest you some websites where you can refresh your treasury, just please don’t kick your cat, it has nothing to do with your mental state and impotent hate…

                • You may bark, but the convoy continues
                  Last time I barked the convoy of your pals run away accusing us dogs with barking using disproportionate high volume. True your convoy continues its proud voyage back to the medieval age, you should go with them – you are a fellow traveler already.

                • That’s right, peter. Just throw childish insults at people who challenge your historical revisionism.

        • “..the map you seem to be using is a good two or three millennia out of date.”

          Your evidence that the map I am using is two or three millennia out of date is what exactly?
          Surely you wouldn’t resort to making a silly accusation without having some evidence to back it up, would you?

          • Evidence? For the map in your head? Don’t make yourself look even siller, Gezza.

            You know full well what I meant.

            • “Evidence? For the map in your head? Don’t make yourself look even siller,”

              So you have no evidence, just what you imagine is in my head?
              Oh dear.

              Are you going to ask the question I originally asked or are you still trying to dodge it?

              • My typo that should be “Are you going to ANSWER the question I originally asked or are you still trying to dodge it?

              • I was addressing pretzelberg’s first comment which went like this:
                “i.e. CiFWatch supports Israel annexing the Jordan Valley?”

                • My original reply to preztelberg has now been lost in the ether.

                  My “And you were wrong” reply to pretzel berg concerned his fencing match with Gerald.

                  My original reply to pretzelberg was over his initial comment today. My reply was
                  “did you read the paragraph above” meaning, of course, the article.

                  Boy, that was a lot of work.

    • First, ‘CiF Watch’ doesn’t adopt specific editorial positions. We do provide analysis and hopefully can impart an understanding that the Guardian won’t provide of Israel’s security concerns in the context of current negotiations.

    • I read this to mean that, until a proper peace deal that guarantees Israel’s security within defensible borders, Israel will not countenance giving up military control (to the UN or otherwise) of the border between the territory it governs and Jordan. That is eminently sensible for all the reasons given in the JCPA piece.

      Of course, that is not to say that Israel would not cede such control WITH SUITABLE GUARANTEES on the future occasion of the establishment of a fully independent Palestinian state, but that’s all part of teh negotiations.

      You see, not everything is permanent, not everything is absolute. Israel HAS to protect her security NOW, for which purpose it needs military control of the Jordan valley.

        • The Israeli government appears to be doing all in its not inconsiderable power that there is no future for the one Jewish and democratic state, let alone ensure its security. Such is its fixation on maintain control over the occupied territories at the price of a single state between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.

          • I’m deeply touched by your worries about Israel’s security. Certainly you are an expert on this field (Where did you get your expertise Chaim? West-Point? Sandhurst? Saint Cyr? maybe ithe Frunze Academy?) After reading your post and witnessing your depth of intelligence and love of Israel I have no doubt that at the next Israeli elections you would get an overwhelming majority.
            Have you ever considered the possibility that you can be very useful as a textbook example?

            • Well, Peterthepratt, how about Ba’had 1, in Mitzpeh Ramon? Good enough for you? Gdud 51? You stay with your one-stater dreams. It’s people like you who will ensure that the Palestinians will get what they want. Ahbal.

              • With this distinguished military carrier you will have a very good chance to get elected. No one else in Israel has similar experience. Why have I the feeling that you are the same lying asshole called Joe Millis who has been thrown out from UJIA due to his anti-Israeli drivels?

  1. This is more to do with a building of trust than anything else.

    Israel tried to count on the UN forces for many years and they failed times and times again in all of the borders but the Eastern one (the Jordan valley).

    If you compare this situation to your neighbourhood would you trust the UN?
    You’d have to be dumb or a sucker to do so.

    But as the Israeli saying goes, suckers don’t die, they only change.