General Antisemitism

Nicolas Anelka and Dieudonne: the quenelle is an antisemitic salute


Cross posted by Dave Rich from the blog of The CST

The quenelle salute given by West Brom striker Nicolas Anelka when he scored in their Premier League match on Saturday is an antisemitic gesture, and he should be punished accordingly by the FA.

In the Luis Suarez and John Terry cases the FA established the ‘zero tolerance’ principle, that a player’s intention does not excuse the use of racist language. The same principle must be applied in this case. Anelka says that he is not racist or antisemitic and that he did not intend his quenelle to have an antisemitic meaning, but this is beside the point:  just as the FA accepted that Luis Suarez is not a racist person while banning him for eight matches after he used racially abusive language towards Patrice Evra.

That the quenelle is antisemitic is beyond dispute. In France it has become part of a social media craze in which people find ever-more offensive places to insult Jews by doing a quenelle: this blogpost shows photographs of people performing quenelles at Auschwitz, at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, at the Holocaust memorial in Berlin, outside synagogues and Jewish shops and at dozens of other Jewish sites. There is even a photograph of someone doing a quenelle outside the Ozar Hatorah Jewish school in Toulouse, where Mohammed Merah murdered three children and a teacher in March 2012:

 ob_43b6f7b494bb77257061d86e28388882_quenellemerah2

If the people in these photographs did a Nazi salute at any of these sites they would risk instant arrest and prosecution. The quenelle is a way of getting around the law, while still getting the same thrill of breaking the taboo against antisemitism.

The quenelle was invented by French comic Dieudonné Mbala Mbala. Anelka has excused his quenelle by saying that it was “just a special dedication to my comedian friend Dieudonné”; but this is no excuse, it just confirms the offence. Dieudonné has numerous convictions for antisemitism in France. One of these was for a sketch in which he gave a heroism award to French Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson. The ‘comedy’ was that the award was presented by a man in a concentration camp uniform, complete with a yellow star.

Dieudonné claims that the quenelle is anti-establishment and anti-Zionist, not antisemitic. This is true, but also misleading – because Dieudonné believes that the establishment is run by “Zionists”. He told Iran’s Press TV:

The Zionist lobby … have taken France as hostage and we are in the hands of ignorant people, who know how to structure themselves into a mafia-like organisation and… have now taken over a country.

This is not the anti-Zionism of people who think that the Palestinians get a raw deal from Israel: it is the anti-Zionism of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, of a conspiracy theory that believes “the Jews pull all the strings”, as French extremism expert Jean-Yves Camus put it. (There is more background about Dieudonné’s political journey here).

It is also a political worldview that has led Dieudonné into a friendship with leaders of the far right Front National (FN). In 2006, Dieudonné attended the FN’s annual festival, and in 2008 veteran FN leader Jean Marie Le Pen became godfather to one of Dieudonné’s children.

Here is Le Pen (centre) with the FN’s Bruno Gollnisch (left) and friends, doing a quenelle:

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The quenelle was unknown in Britain before this weekend, but it has been at the centre of a public storm in France due to the viral spread of people doing it at Jewish sites and posting the photos on social media. Government ministers are talking of banning Dieudonné’s public appearances because they believe that he incites hatred of Jews and poses a threat to public order. Dieudonné denies this, but when Nicolas Anelka did his quenelle during a match that was broadcast live on French TV, he inserted himself into a race row in his home country – on the side of the alleged racist.

This does not mean that Anelka intended to make an antisemitic statement, or even that he understood the meaning of what he did: but now that the quenelle has entered British football, the FA need to set a clear precedent by acting swiftly and unequivocally to punish those who do it.

161 replies »

  1. The smirk on Anelka’s face as he made this racist salute tells you all you need to know.

    I hope the FA make an example of him. I’d like to see him humiliated.

  2. From what I understand about Anelka, he is 37 years old and has been considered a malcontent from his late teen years while on the pitch. A lengthy (and deserving) suspension could put him out to the fields permanently.

    As for Dieudonne, he goes as far as his echo chamber allows him to. But here’s the thing about echo chambers: by definition, they don’t branch out. The more people worldwide see his hate monger attitude, and challenge his cheap excuses and reasoning for being a hate monger, the more trouble he will be in.

    By 2014 I expect Dieudonne to have eaten his own bullet. If not metaphorically, then literally. And none of us will mind. He would have hoisted his own petard, just like our friends at the Palestinian embassy over the weekend. Victims of their own hate mongering ways. Dieudonne’s may feel his career is at a zenith, but really he is on the sharp decline to the nadir. The man is scum, and now the whole world of fanatical footballers knows it.

    Adios, MoFos. Teh Evil Joo has done it again.

    • Dieudo has many fans, and this number is GROWING thanks to the inane propaganda above.

      So Dieudo thanks you, and we don’t.

      You cannot fight him this way.

      • You haven’t figured it out, have you? I don’t NEED to fight him, other than to EXPOSE his words and actions for what they are. HE needs to defend HIMSELF, and he can’t, because he’s too much a flippant hate monger.

        Go. Tell yourself his reputation isn’t completely shot outside his chamber. Make yourself feel better in light of reality.

        This, by the way, is the tactic of losing to Israel time and again. It’s not a conspiracy; it’s the battlers’ own lack of understanding.

          • We’re so disgusting, we castigate INDIVIDUALS as hate mongers as opposed to lumping ALL ZIONISTS as world controllers.

            Suck it, Loser. Don’t you have a circle of jerks to join for your weekend sexcursion? (Poor barnyard animals….)

    • “Teh Evil Joo has done it again.”

      I repeat in case you missed it for the last dozen times. The word “Joo is an Americanism nowadays only used by US Zionists trying to insert anti Semitism where none exists . I am sorry if British anti Zionists leave you floundering so you have to do this but I suspect invention is what you do .

      The salute is of course as the poster above states a general “” feck you ” and only anti semitic when used by anti semites of which Dieudonne is clearly one.

      • I repeat, Webshit. You’re about as useless to a conversation as a corn kernel in a dog’s poo patty. And it is anti-Semitic to laugh at and consider the Holocaust some kind of Jewish porn. Seriously, go fuck yourself. Sideways, and with a chainsaw.

      • B:

        “The salute is of course as the poster above states a general “” feck you ” and only anti semitic when used by anti semites of which Dieudonne is clearly one.”

        Sorry, an AntiSemite invents something to incite against Jews and made it nicer by parroting it’s only meant to upset the Zionists which control the world.

        A bit like Hitler writing Mine Kampf.

        But rest assure Mine Kampf is not against the Jews it’s against the “international Jew” and should only be seen as an Anti Semitic item when used by anti Semites.. Otherwise it’s just a book, or a hard copy of a toilet paper…

        Thanks for clarifying it for me Berchman.
        You should be hosting Have I got news for you! Maybe you could invite Dieudonne and Martin Rawson and Steve Bell to be on one of the teams and we can have a right laugh…

        • “a Jewish website. ”

          A Jewish website ? So let me get this straight are you saying only one religious affiliation is allowed here …why…why that sounds like supremicism..God you are a gift for anti-Semites

          • “God you are a gift for anti-Semites”
            I don`t know your god, but in that case you are very ungrateful till now. Antisemite.

            • “Antisemite.”

              I can only assume you hate Muslims so much that you can only see others in similar terms. It does surprise me that you have such a restricted vocabulary given the well known literacy of your people. Are you a convert?? ..that would explain a lot.

          • Website:
            “are you saying only one religious affiliation is allowed here …”

            No he isn’t.
            But something tells me you already knew that but chose to look the other way.
            I hope I am wrong.

      • He probably got the message that it is wrong to do so because of what the Comic stands for.
        A bit like what happens when you fuel fire (it tends to grow).

        I guess Tony Parker understood it.

        Anelka either couldn’t care (my guess), enjoys the momentary center stage (my 2nd guess) or is actualy fully immersed in Dieudonnism (whatever shallow cesspool that my be).
        Either way it appears the Brummies couldn’t care about French politics and think they are above it.

  3. By write that you are a DENIER:

    “That the quenelle is antisemitic is beyond dispute. ”

    Of course it is disputed.

    The gesture means “I fuck you by this amount”, it is a vulgar “anti system” gesture. Only when “you” refers “the Jews” the “quenelle” is antisemitic.

    In general it means “fuck the system”.

    IOW, it means NOTHING.

    And BTW, you are a pile of shit.

  4. “This does not mean that Anelka intended to make an antisemitic statement, or even that he understood the meaning of what he did”

    So now I’m confused. Early in the article the following was claimed.
    “That the quenelle is antisemitic is beyond dispute. In France it has become part of a social media craze in which people find ever-more offensive places to insult Jews by doing a quenelle”.
    Which is it? Is the quenelle undisputed anti-semitism, or can a person do it without knowing?

    Stan

    • The question is, is Anelka smart enough to understand the anti-Semitic nature of his pal, Dieudonne? Tony Parker didn’t understand; now he does. So the question is whether Anelka can admit what’s really in his heart and head, or if he is just going to sit there like an idiot and deny any responsibility for bringing a world of hatred to the pitch.

      • ” is Anelka smart enough ”

        I thought you guys didn’t do irony. A guy who exposes his breathtaking lack of finesse every time he posts commenting on others . I know you will say you are the smartest guy in your city so its not an issue over there ! 🙂

        • “I thought you guys didn’t do irony.”

          Whatever gave you the impression Jews don’t do irony?

          Where have you been hiding since the time of… well, Kafka for example?
          Or Woody?

    • Your two choices are not mutually exclusive.
      We can’t think for you. I’m afraid you’re on your own.

  5. Re. the salute:
    I was immediately reminded me of Dr. Strangelove. And nobody in their right mind ever thought his was a Nazi salute, of course …

    • Sellers use of an involuntary response to portray a Nazi salute was of course disablist ..but on a site where only one kind of discrimination is wrong we can all laugh at injured people..they are funny.

      Im being a tiny bit hypocritical because I laughed out loud at it . I was 15.

      • Your sad lack of a sense of humour is established more firmly with every post. If you can’t tell the difference between satire and childish “disablism” you really are a very sad man indeed. Your life must be really miserable – every film or TV show you watch must be accompanied by a PC cecklist. Fawlty Towers? Racist against Spanish (or was Manuel a Basque). Father Ted? Clearly racist. Drunk Irish people – that is so stereotyped. Cheers? Clearly ageist, as the only senior citizen (coach) was quite stupid.

        • Manuel was, of course, from Barcelona. In the dubbed version for Spanish viewers, however, apparently the line is “I’m sorry, he’s from Mexico …”

  6. Here’s an absolutely revolting.article I just came across where there can be no doubt about its anti-Semitic thinking:
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/01/02/343279/quenelle-ccourage-or-reverse-nazi-salute/

    The lowlights:

    Zionism is responsible for all wars of the last 60 years.
    Israeli Jews have no MIddle East DNA.
    The Mossad “encompasses factions of the intelligence organizations of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Britain, India”
    Auschwitz was not a death camp.
    “They do it for money and power. ”

    I’d love to know Rouhani’s views on the article and presstv in general.

          • I recently read that no one in the middle ages thought the world was flat it is a modern invention.

            By the way I have begun reading the works of someone Im sure you know ” even babies and children can be killed if they pose a threat to the nation.” I can see that your views are actually quite moderate . I am glad there are people like you to keep the extremists in check.

            • Well, if you are in need of a Führer, just continue reading. Obviously you want to develope from a simple Antisemite to a professional one. That means, no pervert, all nazi.

                • No let these extremists carry on . Fritz is really exactly what I expect a deranged Zionist to be like. He calls me a Nazi despite my family suffering dreadfully and my extended family who died in their dozens in the camps .

                  He never says what his people did to fight the Nazis. I suspect feck all .

                • Come on, pervert, who were your relatives that you are boasting of, whose sufferings you misuse? Something no decent person feels the necessity to do.
                  So tell their names.
                  I guess you posted here already under other nicks `cause there were two others who boasted of relatives and then vanished without a whimper.

                • Fritz it was me who posted that originally. I am not going to tell you who they are you could trace me and I don’t trust you for one second . I have swithered about telling Adam and I probably will at some stage. I don’t like his views at all but I trust him .

                  We all lost out to the Nazis …some of us kept our dignity.

                • You are the gentile who maintains his wife is Jewish and his father, too? And that you are sometimes Englishman, sometimes Scot?
                  Dignity indeed.

        • B:
          ““Iran is peaceful ”

          Compared to some countries it is”

          And I guess you do not believe of the dangers of incitement.
          There are many of ways of being a dangerous country.
          Iran is no where near peaceful internally or externally.
          Iran is a racist country where 2nd class citizens exists depending on their sex, their faith, their political view, their sexual orientation etc.

          You, dear friend, are excusing these things which in Iran are institutionalised.
          This is unforgivable.
          You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

          • B:

            “We all lost out to the Nazis …some of us kept our dignity.”

            Correct!.
            The Arab and Farsi political world didn’t keep their dignity and still portray Jews as the Nazis did.

            I hope, for your relatives, you at least agree with this.

  7. The quenelle is anti-semetic even if its origins did not intend it to be. The swastika had been around for centuries until its meaning was usurped by the Nazis. Now, in modern times, it is the definition of an anti-Semitic symbol. The quenelle, no matter what anyone says about its original meaning is now an anti-Semitic gesture.

    • Actually, giving the creator’s wacky, offensive ideas about what the system and “Zionism” are, it’s clearly antisemitic, and blatantly so.
      Of course, we need to ask to the “humorists”: How is it “antisystem” and “antizionist” to mock parts of Jewish life, and places of tragedy?

      • “Actually, giving the creator’s wacky, offensive ideas about what the system and “Zionism” are, it’s clearly antisemitic”

        So everything Dieudo says is antisemitic?

        Even when he says something right?

        “Of course, we need to ask to the “humorists”: How is it “antisystem” and “antizionist” to mock parts of Jewish life, and places of tragedy?”

        That’s because he thinks that a tragedy is used to get away with critics. (No, it isn’t supposed to make sense.)

        • I’m referring to his specific ideas about the system and “Zionism”. Those reveal his judeophobia.
          And yeah, the fact he mocks a tragedy makes him a despicable person.

        • Corrector:

          “That’s because he thinks that a tragedy is used to get away with critics. (No, it isn’t supposed to make sense.)”

          So let me get this straight; He believe that some elements abuse the memory of the holocaust for political gain so he… abuse the memory of the holocaust himself.
          Genious!

          Now, I believe we can all agree that not every Jew or Zionist do that.
          We can also agree that there are Muslim elements who abuse the interpretation of their religion as a means to do terrible things to various minorities, sexes and Gay people.

          Would you support Dieudo if he would bring about some Jokes mocking Muhammad cause Muhammad is being used falsely to gain political gain by some elements?

          And if not why not?
          If yes, why don’t we see him do it as far greater number of people are being hurt by misrepresentation of Islam than by Zionism?

        • That’s because he thinks that a tragedy is used to get away with critics.

          Pathetic apologetics for rank anti-Semitism.

          Do you know no shame?

              • You happen to be on his sites, Pretz.
                Don’t worry Pretz, join me in the cockroach nest!
                Apperantly insect names are the new compliments given to us sane people by Anti Semites’ apologists.

    • “The quenelle is anti-semetic [sic]…”
      He can spell my name, but the multi-syllabic words give him trouble.

  8. It’s rather pathetic to see the judeophobes defending their offensive, immature meme. You know you’re doing it to piss off Jews. No matter how many mental contortions you launch, you know what it means.
    Man, this is one of the most hateful episodes of this year.

  9. ” You know you’re doing it to piss off Jews ”

    Motivation for posting ? The first time I ever posted on CIF I was called an anti semite. I was livid . I couldn’t believe it . Having spent my entire adult life fighting Nazi groups , but making myself unpopular by defending Israel I just thought if these people hate me , a moderate pro Israeli so much Lord knows what they are like with the Palestinians.

    Then the war in 06 , the redesigning of Beirut, the turkey shoot in Gaza in 08 and the applause such murderous mayhem received from some quarters …it just left me horrified that the people I had supported in 67 had become remote and unable to take the slightest degree of criticism. And so it continues.

    • Obviously absent from earth from 1967 to 2006, no Yom Kippur war, no Lebanon, no Intifada, no Oslo accord, ..
      Unlikely that you supported Israel in 1967.
      Anyway in this case your age is something between 66 and 70, act your age..

    • Having spent my entire adult life fighting Nazi groups…
      but you forgot to add your fight against the Jews, and for the right of the “gentle” mass murderers of your choice not speaking about the most clearly Jew hating scum like Anelka, Atzmon, Dieudonne etc.

    • “Then the war in 06 , the redesigning of Beirut, the turkey shoot in Gaza in 08 and the applause such murderous mayhem received”

      “but making myself unpopular by defending Israel”

      Quite a defense. ‘Nuff said.

  10. According to the CPS: Racist Incident – any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.
    But according to our local pervert childcare worker postman in the Jews’ case his kind of Jew-haters define what is anti-semitism and what is not.

    • No if you feel a comment is racist then I support your right to be offended. You get to call me a pervert but that’s cool as your rights are the ones that are of the overarching importance on this site …the word supremacist again comes into focus but it is probably racist to think that everyone has rights.

      • Yes berchmans calling you a pervert after your documented wish to “bang” Anne Frank is only a Jewish supremacist thing.

          • So you are denying it berchmans (Heres to Davy)?

            June 1, 2010 at 5:17 am
            Heres to Davy.
            HairShirt
            “You know what I mean, giving Anne Frank a blast and all that…”
            Is that it ? A partial quote from 4 years ago? Thats your attack? You take it easy my friend. BTW Parisa is back on CIF … it was to her the post was originally addressed. She looks great. I told her.

            June 19, 2010 at 11:46 am
            Heres to Davy.
            peterthehungarian
            ” you are not busy dreaming about giving a blast to a murdered child ”

            This was an appalling thing to say and I apologise most sincerely for this piece of sarcastic drivel. Although it was 4 years ago it is still fresh in your mind and given that you say it in every post it clearly rankles…again I apologise.

            So I’m a lying tosser….

              • You have to have a very serious problem with understanding simple English language texts. I repeat your “denying:”
                This was an appalling thing to say and I apologise most sincerely for this piece of sarcastic drivel. Although it was 4 years ago it is still fresh in your mind and given that you say it in every post it clearly rankles…again I apologise.
                But I’m not surprised that a semi-professional racist bigot and antisemite is not only a pathological liar but full fledged idiot as well…

                • Again you are part quoting . You are printing an apology for a different post. You used the word ” bang ” . If you can show I used this word I swear I will never ever post here again I will make a donation to the IDF and write a song entitled “Peter is OK”.

                • If you can show I used this word I swear I will never ever post here again I will make a donation to the IDF and write a song entitled “Peter is OK”.
                  Exactly as you promised if anybody can prove that in the Hamas charter there are anti-semitic tropes. Naturally after many posters linked to it you disappeared like dogshit in the grass.
                  Again you are part quoting . You are printing an apology for a different post. You used the word ” bang ”

                  Of course berchmans. A different post…
                  Hairshirt wrote to you:
                  “You know what I mean, giving Anne Frank a blast and all that…”
                  Your answer:
                  Is that it ? A partial quote from 4 years ago? Thats your attack? You take it easy my friend. BTW Parisa is back on CIF … it was to her the post was originally addressed. She looks great. I told her
                  Could be that you are correct and instead of “bang” you wrote give a blast” Totally different isn’t it?
                  I’m just wondering to know whether you are really this unbelievable idiotic or only pretending? I vote for the first option.

                • If you can show I used this word I swear I will never ever post here again
                  Please don’t do this berchmans. You are an invaluable gift for Cifwatch – demonstrating the true face of the Jew-hating Guardinista masqueading as an “Israel critic”. True you are so stupid and transparent that readers not familiar with your past on CIF may believe that you are only a bad and over exaggerated caricature so they must be reminded that no you are real. A real childcare worker, a postman and an antiwar writer socialist- scientist and musician. You are really a very multi-talented crooked piece of a bigot….

                • I thought I was banned . Given I was the most peaceful person here , a strong Israel supporter and the most forgiving poster apart from Afancedogge it was odd.

                  Afancedogge RIP

                  Phil Everly RIP

      • Website: “No if you feel a comment is racist then I support your right to be offended.”

        This is bordering on self-delusion. You perform all kinds of mental contortions to deny that contemporary anti-Semitism exists outside of the confines of neo-Nazi circles, and is merely the figment of the deranged Zionist mind. In fact your always pull out your magic wand and wave the word ‘Zionist’ around to turn modern Jew-hatred into a moral and legitimate crusade against the iniquities of Israel and other ‘powerful’ Jews who can be implicated in the ‘Zionist project’ – as reflected in Hamas’ Charter for example.

        No, you never acknowledge a Jewish person’s right to be offended by modern anti-Semitism, because it would mean you would have to confront your own prejudices – and the magic of anti-Zionism transforms your banal and visceral bigotry – otherwise as unfashionable and unattractive as your grandparents’ variant – into a noble and worthwhile cause. It gives your life meaning and identity. You couldn’t compromise that by acknowledging that anyone apart from a few select house-Jews are qualified or morally robust enough make such an accusation in good faith.

        • ” you perform all kinds of mental contortions to deny that anti-Semitism exists ”

          I think I have become the sum of all hatreds on this site. Of course anti semitism exists Have you got the right guy ? I occasionally ask if it it possible that Israel’s stunning victories in the area have made it worse and it is as if I am riding a tank into Poland.

          “the magic of anti-Zionism transforms your banal and visceral bigotry ”

          Again I have to ask have you got the right guy ? I am a Zionist .

          I support Israel . I condemn any attack on her ..EVEN AGAINST AN IDF SOLDIER IN UNIFORM IN THE DISPUTED TERRITORIES I . simply want the 67 lines to be adhered to. Like 95% of the world.

          • Website: “I think I have become the sum of all hatreds on this site”.

            If you are Berchmans there may be good reason for that. Moving goal posts a particular speciality. If you are not, I stand corrected.

            • ” If you are Berchmans there may be good reason for that. ”

              Interesting. If I said there is a reason that you were hated the hounds of Antisemiitic hell would engulf me . You guys get to be nasty , tell lies, misquote, semi quote and call the mildest criticism ” hatred ” No wonder that many say peace will only come when the US goes tits up and Israel is forced to negotiate

              • Website: “If I said there is a reason that you were hated…”

                I am hated, by sanctimonious, chauvinistic Guardian readers, self-proclaimed intellectuals and other European humanitarians who believe that natural justice and progress cannot be restored until the yids and their supporters are back in their place – disempowered, disenfranchised and at the mercy of their former tormentors.

                And btw, offending Jews by dismissing the murderous intent behind the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is not ‘mild criticism’, it is an affront to the memory of every Jew murdered by European nationalists since the beginning of the 20th Century – and continues to be used as the intellectual and ideological justification for Hamas’ Charter, which I know (if you are Berchmans) that you have defended and in the past.

              • WEbbsite,

                I’m sorry but I don’t believe I was nasty to you given you were not nasty to me on a personal level to the best of my recollection.

                If I have been I apologise.

                I may disagree with you on many things, part of it is the way you think of me, but unlike other past posters in my view your statements and ideas can contribute to dialogue.
                I fail to see why you were being banned from this site.
                Then again I was not involved in past dialogue and frankly would put aside some matters if it means sticking to the topic rather than shifting aside all the time.
                This is my personal opinion which I’m entitled to.

                As you can tell it is a very charged topic and emotions ran high on both sides of the fence.

          • B:

            “I think I have become the sum of all hatreds on this site. Of course anti semitism exists Have you got the right guy ? I occasionally ask if it it possible that Israel’s stunning victories in the area have made it worse and it is as if I am riding a tank into Poland.”

            Take into effect what the allies have achieved in WW2 you would expect them to be hated through out Germany and Japan.
            But low and behold, they are not.

            Taking into account the massive amount of help Israeli minorities have received and the injustice that has befallen upon them by both Israel and the Arabs you would think they’d like to move on and start a new page.

            No Webbsite, they hold on to the grudge like a scared child clings on to his mother’s hand.

            I repeat my question.
            Why is it that the Arab and Muslim driven Anti Semitism is not being criticised in the guardian as much as any other right wing Anti Semitism?

            How come it doesn’t seem to puzzle you that countries like Iran, Pakistan or Indonesia believe Zionism is the biggest problem men kind are facing these days?

            It simply beyond belief.

            • “why is it that the Arab and Muslim driven Anti Semitism is not being criticised in the guardian as much as any other right wing Anti Semitism? ”

              You are a good man and I hesitate to say why when we all know why . It is argued that modern anti semitism is driven by Israeli intransigence , 60 years of anger and jealousy and ME leaders hiding their fecklessness behind the IP debate.

              The argument goes that you cannot plant thousands of settlers in a tiny part of an hostile foreign land without some reaction. It is the job of some pro Israelis to paint this as historical anti semitism indeed some amazing things have happened.

              To suggest that the hostility is partly caused by the Israelis has been turned into ” so Jews are responsible for their own discrimination ? ” borrowing a centuries old complaint. Indeed to ask if this is possible has become an antisemitic act in itself.

              The Guardian supports British slaughter in the ME whilst complaining about Israel and that is how to fight it. To attack it as antisemitic is simply going to infuriate moderates.
              .

              • I’m not going to take this further but suffice to say that hate needs no reason to exist.

                It is an irrational reaction and so rely on irrational reasons.

                When no reason will be found reasons will be invented.

                I’d like to give the examples of England:
                “Gentile-Jewish relations in England were disturbed under King Stephen, who burned down the house of a Jew in Oxford (some accounts say with a Jew in it) because he refused to pay a contribution to the king’s expenses. In 1144 came the first report in history of the blood libel against Jews; it came up in the case of William of Norwich (1144).[5] Julius finds that the English were endlessly imaginative in inventing anti-Semitic allegations. He says that England became the “principal promoter, and indeed in some sense the inventor of literary anti-Semitism.”[6] Julius argues that blood libel is the key, because it incorporates the themes that Jews are malevolent, constantly conspiring against Christians, powerful, and merciless. Variations include stories about Jews poisoning wells, twisting minds, and buying and selling Christian souls and bodies.”

                Now, it is obvious that had Jews not been present at all the hate will turn to some other poor soul.
                Muslims were no different.
                As long as Jews paid they were relatively safe.
                But this is not the point.
                We are talking about modern era where such non sensical inciteful elements should and must be combated at the elementary school level.
                Instead we have the exact opposite, from Egypt to Iran.

                The fact of the matter that even the land purchased by Jews from ottomans is now shown as being owned by Arabs.
                These are lies which should be comfronted, yet the PA and Hamas choose not too.

                Why do you think this is the case where many Arab citizens benefit from the Israel?
                Why do you believe they peddle the apartheid claims?

                Do you recall a single black person receiving such treatment in SA back in the 80’s?

                http://www.usmessageboard.com/middle-east-general/333326-yuval-s-heart-saved-10-year-old-palestinian-girl.html

                It is a common theme to see Israelis receive Palestinian organs and vice versa but sadly most choose to ignore the reality.
                You see getting a final settlement will be a disaster for UNRWA.
                Think of all the money they will lose.
                What excuses will regime like the Iranians will find in order to distruct the general population from the troubles at home?

                Whoever wants to find reasons to hate will invent them if need be.
                The problems lie with those who white wash the reluctence to educate the younger generation by some as some sort of a justified respnse.

                We all have a responsability to educate our kids to be more tollerant.
                And while there is much work in Israel I truly believe the Arab states around us have far greater distance to cover in that field.

                • To put it another way – when the Jew is forbidden from owning land or social status, and is encouraged to become a money-lender (because it is not OK for Christians to do so but it is a necessary job in society) he becomes a leech, a penny-grabber etc. When he is secular and successful in all parts of society (as in pre-Nazi Germany) he becomes a parasite and a subversive. When he is oppressed and ghettoised, and perhaps forced to steal to survive, he becomes a rat or a cockroach and a dispicable criminal. Yet when he is strong, successful and proud, he becomes a brutal persecutor and an occupier. In Europe upto the mid 20th centurey, we were told “go back to Palestine. We don’t wnant you here.” When we followed the advice and went back to Palestine, we were told “get ouit of Palestine. You are invaders, colonisers, “illegal settlers”, interlopers.

                  We just can’t win, can we?

                • Right you are Labenal.
                  Never the less, it is in our culture to keep our hopes high and our ethics secure.
                  Those Jews who attend Synagogues say this every week: .” For instruction shall come forth from Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

                  And we must not forget the following to the verse which is also in our culture:
                  Thus he will judge among the nations and arbitrate for the many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not take up sword against nation; they shall never again know war.”

                  כִּי מִצִּיּוֹן תֵּצֵא תוֹרָה וּדְבַר-ה’ מִירוּשָׁלִָם. וְשָׁפַט בֵּין הַגּוֹיִם וְהוֹכִיחַ לְעַמִּים רַבִּים וְכִתְּתוּ חַרְבוֹתָם לְאִתִּים וַחֲנִיתוֹתֵיהֶם לְמַזְמֵרוֹת לֹא-יִשָּׂא גוֹי אֶל-גּוֹי חֶרֶב וְלֹא-יִלְמְדוּ עוֹד מִלְחָמָה.

    • “Racist Incident – any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person”

      Most stupid thing you could have said.

      • Most stupid thing you could have said.
        Tell this to the Crown’s Prosecution Service asshole – this is their definition – they said this not me.

      • I . simply want the 67 lines to be adhered to.
        And why is this your bloody business pervert? Scotland and the world haven’t any other problems so you must be obsessed with the territory of Israel? Apart from being a child care worker, a postman, a socialist writer, a scientist and a musician you are a security expert too knowing better what is good for us and for the Palestinians? Do you speak a bloody word in Arabic, Hebrew or both? Are you trolling on Indian blogs demanding the independence of Kashmir? Are you expressing your obsession on Chinese websites screaming about the occupation of Tibet? Are you dirtying any UK webpage demanding the independence of Diego Garcia? Are you posting on the talkback section of PressTV demanding the immediate stop the hanging of gays and the stoning of adulterers? No berchmans you are obsessed with Israel and the Jews and doesn’t give a flying haggis to any other conflicts even to those where the number of victims are thousands times bigger and the violence level is a thousands more higher. You just can’t suffer the Jews who have an independent state and you can’t kick them around and make jokes about our murdered children anymore. Tough luck berchmans..
        Like 95% of the world.
        You are a completely deluded idiot to think that 95% of the world population are interested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Do you really think that 95% (why exactly 95% and not 99.876% – did you commissioned a world wide poll already?) of the world population gives a shit? Do you think that the billions of hungry people in Africa, Asia, South-America are obsessed with us too? Do you really think that most hard working people of the developed world are obsessed with the Jews as you are? And if for arguments sake you are correct and the 95% of humans think like you then it must be correct? 95% of the world population is strongly believe that the world was created by some God so this must be so?
        And do you really think that we have to base our existence on the opinion of the 95%?

        I repeat – you are gift for those who fight against the anti-semitism of the so called “liberal European left” you simply show every aspects of its moral, political and ideological failures, its racism and its bigotry. Keep it up p;ease.

        • “you are obsessed with Israel and the Jews and doesn’t give a flying haggis to any other conflicts ”

          Very funny actually and a barefaced lie Now just put down your shotgun , let others guard your property and listen . I have condemned the UK /US assault on the ME as way way way way worse than the I/P struggle. I have done this a hundred times both here and on CIF . I condemn Brit history as way way worse than Israel 1000 times worse . I condemn the Russian assault on Grozny as worse than anything Israel did I condemn the Syrian debacle as way way worse than I/P .

          What is it like to have every post you send completely shagged without any effort?

          • Really? And did you make jokes about the murdered Russian children too?
            Did you explained to your readers that the bombing of a London metro was understandable taking into account the UK adventures on the ME? Did you express your wish to blast the wife of Lee Rigby?
            Interesting…

            • So do you admit I condemn other conflicts.Does that mean your 2.51 is a lie and this is an apology ? You are a bigger man I thought.Thank you.

              • Again your problem with understanding simple texts pervert. You whined about the US/UK intervention in Iraq – they smashed one of your Nazi-like dictator heroes – (wrongly presumed that their culture and peaceful democracy are not contradiction in terms.)
                Anyway in this case you complained about events where your own country was directly militarily involved, not like the Israel/Palestinian conflict. But please continue – what about your indignation expressed on blogs about Tibet, Kashmir, Sudan, Sri Lanka? Iran? (I remember your hands off Iran hysterics very well)
                Does that mean your 2.51 is a lie…
                No it means that you showed again your intellectual and moral capabilities and failed.
                …and this is an apology ?
                Apology? You are really deluded (or totally drunk) Why should I ask a piece of dog shit’s forgiveness after stepped on it incidentally on the boardwalk?

                • ” . You whined about the US/UK intervention in Iraq ”

                  Yes 30 thousand deaths …Muslim deaths …I guess we can safely say “not a bad days work “.

                  I use Bushs figure of 30 k . Who would have that that moronic ghoul would have a sense of humour .?

                  There will have been at least 100 k children either dead, orphaned , or abandoned or devastated. And yes the majority were ” own goals ” after we destroyed their sewage , electricity and water system.

                  Funny how only the deaths of some children get your attention . Not a single word of regret about these poor kids ..Again the word supremicism hovers into view .

                • Funny how only the deaths of some children get your attention . Not a single word of regret about these poor kids ..Again the word supremicism hovers into view .
                  How do you know this pervert? Have you seen my post wishing to give a blast to the child victims in Iraq killed by their own Muslim brothers (and not Bush)?
                  And you are speaking only the victims of the Iraq war forgetting about the millions of Darfurians, Congolese victims – is this forgetfulness of yours not the sign of your Muslim supremacism?
                  Naturally in those cases you couldn’t involve the Jews so these murdered children didn’t win your sympathy.
                  And I’m not forgetting about anybody but obviously I’m much more interested in my immediate environment and my people – naturally this is Jewish supremacism.
                  But it would be really interesting to get an explanation from you why are you obsessed with only the alleged wrongdoing of the US and Israel and nothing else – don’t worry I won’t hold my breath waiting.
                  I’m also looking forward to everyday repeated posts on the PressTV website about the gay hangings in Iran and on the Turkish government website about the illegal occupation of Cyprus – or you agree with them?

                • “How do you know this pervert?”

                  I met him on CIFWatch.You should check your posts and make sure you dont act as my straight man. I dont need one but occasionally…..

                  “naturally this is Jewish supremacism”

                  Given enough rope a racist bumpkin will drop his drawers. Gilad Atzmon accused CIFWatch of being a site for Jewish Supremicists and I supported the article which sneered at him. Here you are supplying ammunition for Atzmon.

                  This is like grenading fish in the barrel .

                  .

                • I disagree WEbbsite.
                  Gilad Atzmon is a twat.
                  What Peter said makes perfect sense to me.
                  You always focus on your immediate surrounding which is Israel (If I recall he is an Israeli).
                  Now I do understand if you have relatives in Israel and believe that a compromise can be made I really do.
                  But I truly don’t see how hinting at Israel as being more dangerous than Islamic terrorism supporters such as IRAN is any help to that cause.