BBC

The Guardian, BBC and Mona Lisa’s Nose


A guest post by Joe Geary

Guess what this is?

mona

Did you get it? Well done, yes, it’s the Middle East as represented by large segments of the media, including the Guardian and BBC.

Well actually no. It’s Mona Lisa’s nose. But you get the picture, or rather, you don’t. You just get a tiny part of it.

There is a basic principle in the fields of semiotics and sociolinguistics, known as “framing”. It is well-known that the way a story is framed will influence how it is received by an audience.  It is equally uncontroversial that framings are not natural and preordained, that whoever is telling the story has a choice of various framings and the choice that is taken gives a significant insight into how we should evaluate both the story and the storyteller.

Returning to the original analogy, the problem with the Guardian-BBC coverage of the Middle East is that we don’t get a frame at all. We don’t even get much of the painting.

They make a conscious choice to remove as much context as possible to depict the Israel-Palestinian relationship, firstly, as entirely conflictual. Whenever do we hear of the many collaborative projects, or the Israeli aid work in the Territories or the health care available to Palestinians in Israeli hospitals? Secondly it is projected as the greatest conceivable imbalance. One side has all the power imaginable, the other side is utterly disempowered.

And thirdly, it is simplistically but seductively presented as white hat versus black hat, or rather, white race against black, or at least brown. The Israelis are depicted as Westerners and so metaphorically white (what a mutation – from swarthy Semites to Nordic Aryans in just two generations). Meanwhile the Palestinians, being Arabs, must be metaphorically a “brown” people. And so we are left with an ugly narrative of racial supremacism, provoking a delicious frisson of outrage among viewers and readers.

Finally, the relationship is stripped of all historical context. Cruel Goliath just woke up one day and decided to occupy and oppress his poor downtrodden neighbour. First of all, to steal his land and then, who knows, to drive him out completely. In this framing the Palestinian “cause” is quite simply freedom and any means of throwing off the oppressor’s yoke is justified, even the most violent.

But let’s try looking at the whole painting in its regional context. The Guardian-BBC could frame this Middle East conflict as that of a tiny country which has had to fight for its survival in three wars of aggression and has been subjected to 65 years of ferocious terrorism, but which miraculously continues to flourish as a democracy with full respect for the rule of law – and all this in a region brimming with violence, tyranny and hate. In this framing, we would require an exchange of hats. Israel is engaged in defensive resistance against enemies who wish to destroy her simply because she is different; she is democratic – dangerously contagious – she is modern and above all she is not Arab-Muslim. In this framing it is no longer clear quite who is the Goliath but it’s quite clear who is the bully and who the victim. And in an Arab Middle East where not only Jews but also the Kurds and Christians are all persecuted victims of Arab-Muslim rejectionism of the “other”, it becomes clear that it isn’t Israel who should be in the UN dock for apartheid racism.

Or we might try a third framing. The Palestinians and their cause are stoked and stroked and embraced by the big power players in the region, Iran, Syria, Turkey and the Gulf States, for the most cynical of self-serving reasons. Firstly, to bolster their soft-power prestige in the Arab world, and secondly to distract the internal populations from the humiliations they suffer at the hands of their rulers. The real Middle-Eastern conflict, as is now becoming clear, is between Shia-dominated Iran, plus its Syrian puppet, and the rest of the Sunni-dominated Arab world. The Palestinians are a very useful pawn in this game. And note that this support is never for a reasonable negotiated peace with Israel. Instead the Palestinians are spurred on to seek some improbable military victory in which Israel is brought to its knees or, better still, every last Jew is driven from the Middle East. Make no mistake, both Sunnis and Shias are happy to fight Israel to the last drop of Palestinian blood and the last thing they want to see is peace. This is a rather different Palestinian “cause” from the one sold daily by the BBC and Guardian.

But wait. I’m being unfair. We do sometimes see this:

mona

What’s this? Why yes it’s the Jewish lobby. The only part of the frame we’re regularly shown. How often are we told that US support for Israel is the result solely of the shadowy but immense power of US Jews and their piles of gold? It couldn’t possibly be that Israel is a democracy under the rule of law and that not supporting Israel would be a dereliction of every value the US professes to believe in. No, perish that thought.

And why do we never see this?

mona

Well done again. Yes, it’s the Arab lobby. The Saudi, the Qatari, the Emirates lobbies – now there is serious money – who not only work Washington lavishly and spend billions on US arms, but bribe media outlets with advertising income and fund universities throughout the West (the Gaddafi Foundation, remember that?) so that ubiquitous “Middle-Eastern studies” are properly pro-Arab and anti-Israel.

One last word on the land-stealing Goliath meme so popular with the BBC and Guardian. As so often documented on this blog, the vast majority of those evil settlements, aka “the obstacle to peace”, are actually built on land which in any reasonable future agreement would be part of land swaps and end up as part of Israel.

So, Guardian, BBC, in the future let’s see the whole picture in a proper frame. She’s famous for her enigmatic smile.

It’s probably because she “nose” what you two deliberate simpletons are up to.

If this pun is too horrible then:

It’s probably because she’s sussed what you two deliberate simpletons are up to.

(Joe Geary is an Anglo-Irish author and academic and occasional contributor to the CiF Watch and BBC Watch blogs. With a professional background in sociolionguistics and political science and a special interest in the language of prejudice, he writes about the increasing demonization of Israel in parts of the mainstream British media.)

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69 replies »

  1. Excellent and beautifully expressed summary of the influences at play and the way the Guardian and BBC operate when dealing with the ME and Israel.

    • Seconded. Resoundingly. Excellent article Joe, particularly for the way in which it points up mindlessness and the confirmation biases in much of the reporting about Israel in the MSM.

      The situation between Israel and her neighbours is complex, far too complex for most of these journalists to understand and they get stressed out about it. That stress is at the root of much of the dichotomous, black and white thinking about the conflict, and inclines these people to batten onto “simple” explanations (a prime example of this sort of faux-journalism is the sort put out by Harriet Sherwood), fooling themselves that these are true, and as a result of repetition of these thoughts and supposition become “facts” and are taken up by haters of all stripes and take on a meaning of their own.

      The results of this selectivity and confirmation bias makes the situation worse, of course, and around goes the circle again becoming even more toxic to its participants.

      I agree with you that Palestinians are merely pawns in this game. Why else are they kept in permanent refugee status? Who or what benefits from that state of affairs? What might happen to their Arab/Muslim “supporters” (and the other useful idiots who are codependent with them) if suddenly they snapped to and made a lasting peace with Israel? How could Arab leaders keep order in their own countries without the equivalent of “bread and circuses” and exhorting their populations into orgies of hatred for the “oppressors” of their Palestinian brethren?

  2. An excellent article, giving a clear overview of just what the basic problem is that CifWatch (and others) are trying to address. There are, of course, many ways of framing this issue, several (but not all, as Itsik points out) of which have been set out in the article. the problem is, when there is framing in the MSM, it always seems to follow one pattern – the Israel = oppressive, all-powerful giant vs Palestinians = weak, oppressed, powerless victim agenda.

    Even the most one-eyed must recognise that it is far more complicated than that, but this is a fact hardly ever acknowledged – or at best given mere lip service – in the western media.

    • Labenal,

      “Even the most one-eyed must recognise that it is far more complicated than that, but this is a fact hardly ever acknowledged – or at best given mere lip service – in the western media.”

      A perfect example was given by Webbsite and Jim on another thread pointing out to Tsipi Livni’s argument about remote settlements.
      They used it as an example of how Israel is wrong rather than pointing out that Israel has far greater opinions within it than any of its neighbours.

      This in itself shows how deep the problem is.

    • Labenal how very dare you!
      Your line “Even the most one-eyed must recognise..” is clearly discriminatory against all one-eyed anti-Semites.
      A formal complaint will be launched by the Anti-Semitic branch of Pursuit of the Rights of International Cyclops and Kindred Spirits and supported by Berchmans and Dim Jim.

      • I apologise to any inadvertent offence to monocular bipeds of all races and creeds I may have caused by my statement. Further to any offence caused to persons with excessive growth hormone by my use of the word “giant” in the perjorative sense. And to any workpeople in the power industry for any suggestion that may be implied by my comments that they are less than assiduous in attempting to provide power to all peoples, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, age, height and level of educational ability.

        I will properly privilege check my posts in future and refrain from using such loose language in future.

        Thank you Gerald for pointing out my insensitive error.

    • Each year hundreds of thousands of people lose an eye, many of them children, including someone very close to me. I therefore find such terms as “one-eyed” neither cute nor funny.
      I enjoyed the rest of your comment.

      • “I therefore find such terms as “one-eyed ”

        Whilst I endorse your sentiment there are many examples of dreadful name calling here that are ignored. Posters not subservient to a fiercely pro Israeli line are associated with mental illness and streams of invective. You can differ in tiny degrees from some and get called Nazi names. You get called a racist for mild jokes poking fun at the USERS, amongst the strongest and richest people in the world

        Over the last week I think I have had cockroach, weasel and only one handsome silver haired cool guy although admittedly that was in my own post.

        None the less I welcome the fact that some insults are being pulled up

  3. Brilliant!

    Should be required reading for all the “experts” at the Guardian and BBC before they are allowed to comment about Israel.

  4. So when is this clash of civilisation to begin in earnest? As the clash would be between Arab-Muslim civilisations and European and Christian Civilsations would it mean that the Christian Palestinians would have all their rights restored? A good biginning but a bit late for Christian Arabs Like Edward Said and George Habbash. Looking forward to see the real impact of this change of heart on part of the Zionists? However, I think I would be waiting in vain.

    • As the clash would be between Arab-Muslim civilisations and European and Christian Civilsations
      No Jimmy the clash at the present is between different Muslim civilizations exclusively. Good luck to both side….

  5. Since when do Egyptians want to have right restored in other countries? Or does Natziejimmie support the occupation of the Ottoman provinces by Egyptian troops, back in 1830? A lot of the so called Palestinian nobles are descendents of Egyptian/Albanian soldiers settling in Ottoman provinces.

  6. Since the Europeans thought they are entitled to piece of Arab land because their grand father lived in the Arab land two thousand years ago. Besides, both Edward and George’s father and grandfather were born in Palestine. Now what about the Albanians? Last I enquired they do not want to leave Europe and have no claim on anybody else’s house.

  7. “The Palestinians and their cause are stoked and stroked and embraced by the big power players”

    Occasional sorties by the IDF that can kill citizens off by the dozen ,sometimes by the score dont help. Yes they are in retaliation..but in the 08 ” war ” the ratio of 100 to one deaths was a new low for the the state. Keeping poor folk in a filthy, rubbled , fractured city when all around is first world doesnt win a lot of friends either. Finally, building flats where everyone in the world except a few Yanks and extremist zionists says you shouldnt build, just cannot be ignored.

    You are blaming the messenger when the message isnt as good as it could be.

    • I begin to think you have a closed mind, Webby (perish the thought). Why? You keep trotting out the same jaundiced lines no matter how long you have been on this site and had the error of your ways patiently explained to you.

      Yes, the number of deaths is unequal. This is entirely consistent with all assymetric conflicts. You will also be fully aware that the IDF takes more care to avoid civilian casualties, even at great risk to her own soldiers, tahn any other army in the world. Ever. You will also be aware that the disparity is at least part (and I would say substantially) caused by the doffering attitudes of the commanders on each side. Israel strives to minimise casualties and values highly the lives of its troops and civilians (so few die) whereas the Palestinian leaders see each dead Palestinian as a propaganda victory and strive to encourage as many to die in “resistance” as possible.

      • Of course Berchmans has a closed mind, Labenal.

        Particularly in the face of intelligent argument as has been advanced by Joe Geary. Still, you can’t polish a turd, can you?

      • We have known about assymetric attack in the UK for hundreds of years . We perfected it. .That is why when we decided to attack Iraq we were planning to kill thousands of children .The hundred or so children’s deaths in Gaza were planned as well.

        Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

      • Berchmans,
        When you come here and site irrelevant number comparisons are you doing it to fool the stupid or are you just stupid yourself?

      • That is why when we decided to attack Iraq we were planning to kill thousands of children .The hundred or so children’s deaths in Gaza were planned as well.
        Yes berchmans. The children’s death was planned in advance in a very detailed form. We are well known experts of planning child murder – I didn’t know that the Brits are too.
        Did I say to that you are a piece of antisemitic lying turd? If not – then I say it now.

      • And here we go again with Webby’s entirely unsubstantiated, tin-foil hat version of history that suggests that Israel somehow uses entirely unrelated events in other parts of the world as cover for its vicious massacres of the poor defenceless Palestinians.

        Disgusting.

      • Webbsite:

        “That is why when we decided to attack Iraq we were planning to kill thousands of children .The hundred or so children’s deaths in Gaza were planned as well.”

        For the last time, who planned both of these?
        Give names and how this information came to your hands please?
        Also give the names of units’ commanders that made sure this took place please and evidence.

        Otherwise I’d assume you are “joking”, which is not funny.

      • Now where have we seen the tactic of ‘posting’ a stupid message and using someone else’s name before?

        No problem, Adam can check the I/P and e-mail address used to sign in.

      • “you ever visited the poor folk in a filthy, rubbled , fractured city ”

        I was a Social worker in Dundee briefly . Hence I can say yes ! 🙂

    • ..Occasional sorties by the IDF that can kill citizens off by the dozen ,sometimes by the score dont help.
      Of course not. Their purpose is not to help them but to stop their gentle attempts to kill us.
      Yes they are in retaliation..but in the 08 ” war ” the ratio of 100 to one deaths was a new low for the the state
      New low? These bloody Jews are killing their enemies in a war… How is it possible!? They should distribute candies and apologize for the inconvenience caused by their existence…
      Seems to me berchmans that you are completely unaware of the fact that the rules have been changed and changed dramatically. Forget about the last two thousand years acts, canons and habits governing the treatment of the Jews.
      Even with your extremely limited intellect it will be very easy to understand the new set of rules defining the relations between the Jews in Israel and their enemies:
      Rule #1 You leave us alone – we leave you alone
      Rule #2 You are messing with us you will be badly beaten
      Rule #3 If we say you will be badly beaten – we mean very badly beaten
      Rule#4 You bear all responsibility for the beating and live with the consequences (if you are lucky)
      Keeping poor folk in a filthy, rubbled , fractured city when all around is first world doesnt win a lot of friends either.
      Exactly. Did you warn the Hamas leadership about this?
      Finally, building flats where everyone in the world except a few Yanks and extremist zionists says you shouldnt build, just cannot be ignored.
      As usual you forgot the define who are the “everyone else”, the “few Yanks” and the “few extremist Zionist”. BTW using “Yanks” instead of Americans is just an other proof of your extreme racism. Do you call the Irish bogs too? The Italians “dago”?
      Is Obama called a “burr-head” in the berchmans household? Are mild mannered child care workers in Scotland allowed using racial slurs? Funny…

      • “TW using “Yanks” instead of Americans is just an other proof ”

        This is wrong. I know a woman from Mexico who calls them USERS because everyone in North and South America are Americans , Its a good name I will use it from now on if you like but “Yanks” is a term of endearment ” Over there.. over there ..the Yanks are coming . ” Was this racist ?

        It could be that you have lost your funny bone. The high and mighty the all powerful ..are fit targets for humour and have been forever.

        • “… but “Yanks” is a term of endearment”
          Oh dear me, Berchmans it is one thing to put your foot in your mouth, but why oh why must you continuously insist on jamming both feet in your lying Racist weasel mouth?

          Look up the derivation of ‘Yankee Doodle’

          • It is wonderfully satisfying that you cannot substantiate your ” racist “claim but have decided that repetition is the better part of valour. Yes I think that of all the guys that have shouted dumb things at me ( and there are a few ) that you are up there amongst the most accurate in repeating your exact risible claim despite no evidence whatsoever.

            Sorry Sunny Jim but like Rangers in Division 3 in Scotland you are way way out of your league

            • So the derivation of ‘Yankee Doodle’ is what exactly?

              Or are you trying your usual tactic of trying to divert attention away from your ignorance and inability to answer a question?

    • Berchmans, have another go at reading the article again, there’s a good chap, more slowly this time. You might glean some understanding of why your post is ridiculous, but also that it provides an excellent example of what Joe is arguing – ie the tendency to emphasise part of the picture and by that to lose the context of the whole complexity of the conflict.

    • berchmans there are some news that probably won’t interest you at all – no Jews were involved
      16 killed by twin car bombs at Syria-Turkey border post
      At least 28 dead in Iraq bombings as al Qaeda closes in on Baghdad
      Violence leaves 4 killed, 15 injured in Egypt
      Five killed by snipers in Lebanon’s Tripoli
      Taliban attack against Afghan restaurant kills 16
      systematic industrial scale killing of 11,000 detainees in Syria
      Regarding this last – as you said you condemned a potential war against the Assad regime – these 11000 are on your mild mannered pacifist account too.

      Where are your crocodile tears berchmans? I’m ready to bet that you never ever heard of these events… Why?
      because
      1. You really don’t give shit about them – they have been killed by their brothers of the gentle religion of peace
      2. You don’t listen the news – you are busy with Jew bashing on CifWatch.

      • “Where are your crocodile tears berchmans?”

        This is unfair.I have often she crocodile tears for many causes.But just to clarify,however many Muslims that have been killed by Jews.. way way more are killed by each other now that the western plan to arm the most extreme bunches have created these monstrous groups

        • …way way more are killed by each other now that the western plan to arm the most extreme bunches have created these monstrous groups
          I see berchmans. Arabs slaughter Arabs, Muslims slaughter Muslims because the West supply them weapons. Have you ever heard of the racism of low expectations? Your post is a textbook example of it. Continue posting please, you are an invaluable gift for the “extremist Zionist” cause.
          What do you think who is supplying weapons to Assad and Hezbollah? Not Iran and Russia? Who is supplying weapons to the insurgents? Not Saudi-Arabia? All of them are well known western powers. You must be very lucky that stupidity doesn’t cause physical pain berchmans.

          • I repeat berchmans:
            What do you think who is supplying weapons to Assad and Hezbollah? Not Iran and Russia? Who is supplying weapons to the insurgents? Not Saudi-Arabia?
            Could you for a change answer these simple questions first time in your life before you declare your intellectual supremacy and disappear to the next thread demonstrating again that your vileness and stupidity have no limits?

            • “Who is supplying weapons ? ”

              Iran and Russia, mainly I dont get your point. Western arms people will be involved as well they are as morally sound as drug dealers.

              ” that your vileness and stupidity have no limits? ”

              When I was a kid , an example of someone whose vileness had no limits was taken by Mossad, when they were the good guys ..and tried in Israel. Now it is someone who differs who from you about where a line on a map should be drawn.

              Now thats what I call devaluation.

        • This is unfair.I have often she crocodile tears for many causes.But just to clarify,however many Muslims that have been killed by Jews.. way way more are killed by each other now that the western plan to arm the most extreme bunches have created these monstrous groups

          You exhibit so clearly the sickness of what has happened to the loony extreme left wingers who, by their extremities, approach the loony extreme right wingers in their sick perception of the world. Anything that you condemn must somehow be linked to the ‘West’, the US, Israel or ‘white people’ etc. Your racism is so clear. You have zero expectations of ‘brown people’. ‘They’ are never responsible for their own home-grown atrocities, massacres and slaughters. It must somehow be linked to ‘white people’, colonialism, imperialism.

          Any condemnation from you of abominations by ‘Brown People’ was always wrung from you by other commenters pointing out your vibrant racism of low expectations and excisability.

          • “. You have zero expectations of ‘brown people’.

            I think you are right I saw my ear specialist last week but unfortunately I discovered she was ” brown “I asked her if she was qualified . I told her it was a joke but she still created a fuss. You cant win.

            • Is this little anecdote supposed to be entertaining or funny in some way? Perhaps I’m too dim to get it, but I just don’t. Still, it’s typical of the tactic you always use here. 1. Accuse Israel of some heinous crime without any evidence. 2. When challenged, attempt to divert the issue by making some point about how terrible Britain is. 3. When pushed further, resort to some “jokey” aside which I suppose is meant to make you seem likeable*.

              *It’s not working.

        • Webby:

          “way way more are killed by each other now that the western plan to arm the most extreme bunches have created these monstrous groups”

          This is a lie.
          They were slaughtering each other even before their nationalistic movements of the 60’s.
          You try to divert that every evil under the sun must have come from the “West”.
          Where is this strange “West2 that we hear so much of.
          Did the West created Spanish greed for South American gold?
          Did the West created Roma’s Slave trade?
          Did the West created the Persian empire or Atila?
          Humans have had serious faults from the dawn of time.

          The rise of Assad and Nasser are linked directly to the USSR which have killed more people than most societies ever had.
          What does it teaches us about Communism?

          So let’s rephrase this:

          However many Muslims that have been killed by Jews, way way more have been killed, and are likely to continue be killed, by one another since the creation of Islam.

    • Webbsite:

      “Occasional sorties by the IDF that can kill citizens off by the dozen ,sometimes by the score dont help.”

      Do you have any idea how many shots were diverted by the IAF at the last minute to hit an empty space or a cemetery only to prevent death?
      Hundreds.

      Had we been a fraction of the monsters you proclaim us to be we wouldn’t give a toss and flatten the entire small strip.
      The IDF, IAF and Israeli Navy did all they could do with in their arsenal to secure preassure on Hamas and reach a sollution while preventing civilian death.
      There is very limited room to do anything in the Gaza strip.
      Yes it is tragic, all wars are.
      This conflict has been fuelled and allowed to carry on precisely by the likes of UNRWA and the various Arab, Farsi, South American and Soviet lobbies.

      • ” we been a fraction of the monsters you proclaim us to be ”

        I used the lightest of understatement there. Since CIF started some hundreds of Gazan civilians have died . I said ” dozens ” I wish I could be seen for what I say and not what you think Ive said.

        It worries me that the most reassuring poster here still sees criticism of the IDF as indicative of madness or hyperbole.

        • Yes. I imagine that it must seem strange to you that ‘strange’ people identify you as a rabid anti Semite posing as anti Zionist. Whole books are being written on the subject as we click.

          Basically, it comes down to obsession. If you claim to be anti Zionist but not anti Semitic, but you are obsessed negatively with Israel and obsessed positively with misogynistic homophobic violent and anti democratic enemies of Israel while claiming to be ‘progressive’, then you are a vile anti Semite.

          • “a rabid anti Semite ”

            When I was a kid a ” rabid anti Semite “was someone who would say horrible things about Jews and try to hurt them. Now it is someone who wants the Internationally and internally condemned settlements stopped . Poor Livni. I bet it is a surprise to her .

        • Webbsite:

          “I used the lightest of understatement there.”
          When you claimed:
          “Occasional sorties by the IDF that can kill citizens off by the dozen ,sometimes by the score dont help.”

          I claimed you see us as monsters.

          Excuse me if I don’t find an Air force that his occasional sorties kill scores of citizens (assumption of civilians) as monsters.

          The IAF is an airforce that does not attempt to target civillians by the scores but must take a very hard decision and act where all other options are beyond reach in order to secure it’s citizens.
          Prior to 2008 we have exahusted all other options od trying to deal with Hamas and PIJ.
          What other option did the Israeli army had?
          You know the answer to that and you also know that had it been any other army on this earth the death toll would have been doubled at best.

          This is one of the reason why I say you are not being an honest broker.

          But you already know that.
          I can stomach criticism of the IDF easily when it is there for a reason.
          Shelling south Lebanon in 2006 served no purpose except wasting shells that were about to expire.
          None what so ever.
          That is a legitimate criticism that many gunners will testify at.
          I would criticise the IDF for what happened to Dr. Abulayesh family, if an investigation determined what had happened was a clear violation of orders.
          It is hard to determine everything in a war inside chaotic hostile territory but to say the IDF are Goliath while the Hamas and PIJ are David just goes to tell how little does a person like that know what’s it like inside a tank deep inside enemy territory with very few options to fire cause you must follow protocol.
          If anything the IDF soldiers sitting ducks in Gaza during the operation were far outnumbered inside enemy territory, clearly identifiable while having no one to trust and can be attacked at any given moment from any direction.
          Imagine what went through their minds at those times?

          As much as Dr. Abulayesh’ story is tragic, and it is, so does war every place on earth.

          http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/16/gaza-doctor-izzeldin-abuelaish-interview?guni=Article:in%20body%20link

    • AKUS, you misunderstood Webby. When he said “Keeping poor folk in a filthy, rubbled , fractured city when all around is first world doesnt win a lot of friends” he was commenting on the neglect and abuse (yes, Webby, I do mean abuse) of the Palestinian civilian by Hamas who choose to divert huge sums from such necessities as building infrastructure or providing for their people into a) more rockets, b) more tunnels and c) their won pockets (hence the penthouses you mentioned). That IS what you meant, isn’t it Webby?

  8. Labenal is it true IDF soldiers have never killed anybody knowingly that is what makes it the most moral army in the world and Israel the most democratic except if you happen to be a Palestinian than your rights are suspended and you can be unknown victim of a IDF bullet not fired by the IDF soldier – I commend you for starting the process of liberating the Palestinians from their HAMAS oppressors.

    • Jim (not a) Chance,
      Since the overwhelming majority of Palestinians live in areas governed by Palestinians the suspension of any rights they might enjoy lies at the doorstep of their own leadership. Have a word with them about that. What makes the IDF the most moral army in the world is the propensity to go out of its way to limit the casualties of their sworn enemies, i.e., to kill as few as possible to meet a military objective. That objective is to stop Israel’s enemies from their objective, i.e., killing Israelis.

  9. So I suppose if I want to visit Palestine all I have to do is go the Palestine embassy get the visa and go there the occupiers will not be able to do a thing I would fly into a airport controlled by the free Palestine but exactly on which planet would that be a reality – I still salute the most moral army in the world together with the only democracy it defends by arresting children in the middle of the night so as not inconvenience or shock the tourists – how kind – Hey in your delusional state I hope you are noticing the changing world around you that threatens the Zionist entity than ever before.

    • Jimmy have you ever considered the option that the piss totally flooded your nano- sized brain and caused irreversible damage?
      by arresting children in the middle of the night so as not inconvenience or shock the tourists
      Exploding, murdering and stoning them is really only a minuscule inconvenience….
      …but exactly on which planet would that be a reality
      Try the Wooden Planet Jimmy…

    • Free Palestine? Is that the one where people are thrown in the clink for insulting a president who is only in the 10th year of his four year term? Or is it the Hamasistic one where people are shot for singing?
      “arresting children in the middle of the night”
      Wouldn’t that make them “children of the night?” (What sweet music they make!)
      You wouldn’t expect the IDF to climb out of their coffins to make arrests while the sun is still up, would you Jim (fat) Chance?
      That’s right Jim, you fire your (weak) rhetorical weapons while hiding behind children while your heroes perform the same schtick with real weapons – because that’s what lowlifes do.

  10. Brilliant blogging Joe. If the Guardian had any intellectual honesty they’d approach you for permission to cross-post to acknowledge their framing of Israel