Guardian

At the Guardian, Pope Francis morphs from ‘independent’ to an ‘appeaser’ in 24 hours


On Sunday, May 25, the Guardian’s Jerusalem correspondent Peter Beaumont framed Pope Francis’s unscheduled stop at Israel’s security fence in Bethlehem as a confirmation of his “determined independence“.

It is an image that will define Pope Francis‘s first official visit to the Holy Land. Head bowed in prayer, the leader of the Catholic church pressed his palm against the graffiti-covered concrete of Israel‘s imposing “separation wall”, a Palestinian girl holding a flag by his side. It was, as his aides conceded later, a silent statement against a symbol of division and conflict.

The powerful gesture was made minutes after an appeal to both sides to end a conflict that the pope said was “increasingly unacceptable”. The unscheduled, conspicuous stop halfway through his three-day visit to the Holy Land – made en route to an open-air mass in Manger Square, Bethlehem – confirmed Francis’s reputation for determined independence.

On Monday, May 26, Beaumont reported on the pope’s visit to a Jerusalem memorial to Israeli victims of terrorism, an apparently unscheduled stop framed by Beaumont in an entirely different manner – as an attempt to “appease” his Israeli hosts:

Pope Francis has deviated from his itinerary for his tour of the Holy Land for the second time in two days – this time to visit a memorial to Israeli victims of terrorism.

The surprise addition on Monday was made at the request of the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and was interpreted as an attempt to appease his Israeli hosts after his surprise decision to pray at the controversial Israeli separation wall in Bethlehem the day before.

So, to recap: the pope’s visit to a site which Palestinians seek to draw attention to is a sign of independence, while his subsequent visit to a site which Israelis seek to draw attention to is act of appeasement. 

Evidently, it didn’t occur to Beaumont that the pope’s visit to the terror memorial (a day after his visit to the security fence) likely represented an acknowledgement that though the fence causes hardships for Palestinians, its construction was motivated by the ethical imperative to save innocent lives – a decision based on moral calculus so simple that even cynical foreign journalists should understand.   

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104 replies »

  1. “moral calculus so simple that even cynical foreign journalists should understand”

    If only it were a question of understanding. People like Beaumont, Harriet the Hen, Jeremy BBC have a pre-set agenda into which they are required to frame any facts. And also, slag off Israel and the Jews and their are no repersussions, Slag off Muslim Arabs and you might find yourself in deep trouble

  2. Also Beaumont is still using ‘Tel Aviv’ as a synonym for the Israel Government despite the the Guardian’s own ‘house style’ guidelines and a PCC ruling.

  3. On seeing the headline, I though: oh God, what’s the Guardian done know FFS?

    But in fact that headline and this article are extremely misleading. The verb “to appease” is pretty commonly used in various settings.

    When you say “appeaser” and “his subsequent visit to a site which Israelis seek to draw attention to is act of appeasement”, however, you are turning Beaumont’s words into something they are not. An “act of appeasement” has obvious assocations with Chamberlain vis-a-vis the Nazis.

    In the given context, the word “appease” simply meant an attempt to provide a counterbalance to his stop by the separation wall.

  4. I think the Guardian article is reflecting the facts as the Guardian columnist sees it. This blog is trying to give the columnist interpretation a sinister twist.

    Of course Nat asked for the addition to counter the prayer the Pope made at the notorious, Separation Wall. The Pope (appease or please) the Prime Minister accepted the addition. Either, please or appease are just as valid in the circumstances. Why such a fuss at this blog?

    Of course the reality is that the impact across the world when the Pope stopped and prayed at the Separation Wall was tremendous and generated a huge amount of support for bringing the Wall down. That support was not impacted by anything else the Pope did during his stay in the Holy land. I hope when the two Presidents join him at the Vatican to pray that will bring the day the Wall comes down much nearer.

    • Of course the reality is that the impact across the world when the Pope stopped and prayed at the Separation Wall was tremendous and generated a huge amount of support for bringing the Wall down.

      i.e. support for an end to terrorist attacks on civilians?

      • Of course it does, it means no IDF terrorists with their guns at checkpoints pointed at Palestinian teenagers. Two teenagers were killed as a result only this month as a result of shots fired by the IDF terrorists.

        • Once I’d posted my reply I thought: surely she won’t be so pathetically predictable as to pretend I meant Israeli “terrorists”.

          Lo and behold …

        • Another Pallywood production. Have you watched the clip of said “assassination”?
          So amateurish…..reminds me of the ‘funeral’ procession of the Palestinian ‘civilians’
          ‘martyred’ in Jenin in 2002, when the ‘corpse’ kept falling off the bier and then climbing back on again.
          Google it, Mardell….you should be able to manage that.

          • CNN has confirmed the footage is genuine. Foreign journalists who were present on the scene confirmed the two adolescents must have been killed by IDF fire. The CNN footage has gone viral. Can’t hide the facts.

        • Palestinian teenagers who try to enter Israel with bomb belt because they can;t do it freely as a result of the security fence..

        • Really, Janie, old girl, are you truly still so upset at those filthy piglets receiving their Shahid-ness for the LIE of “Palestine”? It makes one wonder if you are actually as supportive of the terrorist-group known only since 1967 CE as the “Palestinians” as you continually claim.

          • Could someone please explain what “those filthy piglets receiving their Shahid-ness” means? A reference to martyrdom? If so: who exactly?

      • The pope is the king of the paedos , and was on the side of the nazis when the Jews were slaughtered, don’t try to make something good out of this political mess

        • Noam/noam I see your knowledge of the history of the Papacy and the Roman Catholic Church is as sub-standard as your knowledge of every other subject.
          Not a surprise really.
          Before you ask I am not a Roman Catholic, but if the Pope has annoyed a piece of shit like you then that is a good reason to consider converting.

          • are you saying the vatican condemned the nazis at the time of the holocaust gerry baby, oh reading your bit of paid for view nonsense you aint saying anything, same old story then

            • “.. oh reading your bit of paid for view nonsense you aint saying anything”

              ‘noam baby’ when I read the drivel you post I wonder which country’s education system produced an idiot such as you?
              No wonder you are so jealous of Israel which obviously has a far better education system than the country you were hatched and festered in.

        • Noam/Avram/NatziePampers, home of an Irish social worker who proves the uselessness of social work.

    • “Of course the reality is that the impact across the world when the Pope stopped and prayed at the Separation Wall was tremendous and generated a huge amount of support for bringing the Wall down. ”
      What self important BS , where is that huge amount of support? in the Guardian comment section??
      and you call that reality above all….. there is a world outside and it seems it starting to shift to the right.

  5. Maybe the pope should have prayed first at the walls of the European ghettos built by the orders of his church. The blocking of terrorists exploding in Israel must have hurt His Unholiness’ religious sensitivity. But he knows his priorities better being officially infallible…
    His visit was a PR circus nothing more and nothing else.

    • The blocking of terrorists exploding in Israel must have hurt His Unholiness’ religious sensitivity.

      WTF? You really do need to free yourself of that xenophobic hatred, peter.

    • His visit was also a PR disaster for the Zionist entity. Hasbara is suffering from the laws of diminishing returns.

      • You wish! The problem with hasbara is that nothing is spent on it by the Israeli government, in contrast to the hundreds of billions spent on hate propaganda by that beacon of liberal democracy, Saudi Arabia, inter alia.
        With all that the countries of the world are queuing up to benefit from Israeli technology, science and innovation, which the Arab tyrannies misuse to spread misery upon their own…..Syria…180,000 dead and still counting.
        How about a comment on that Mardell?

      • PR disaster?! Do you really think that in Israel anybody gives a flying piece of the Holy Cross about the pope’s visit apart from the nuisance of waiting in the traffic jams? FYI little cretin: Here the pope is not even a footnote.
        Regarding the Catholic believers: do you really think that their glorious history of dealing with the Jews makes them relevant at all?
        Or do you think that the Buddhists, Protestants, etc. give a flying piece of tiara?
        Please keep it up dreaming about our demise, but take into account that the Pope doesn’t appreciate self-abusers…

        • peter And I thought you wanted to recruit Christians to your army of terror. Abusing the Head of the Christian Church is not going to help is it? I did not think any Christian would have joined anyway? I suppose you know that and therefore your abuse.

          • First little moron: would you be only a bit less of an ignorant worm maybe you knew that the huge majority of Israeli Christians are not roman Catholics and for them the Pope is the manifestation of the Antichrist.
            Second: The pope is not the head of the Christian Church (there is no such animal at all – he’s the head of the Roman Catholic Church.
            Third: I served in the army with many Christians, Druze and Muslim so you shouldn’t disturb with these worries your amazingly twisted mind. Anyway there is a huge increase of Israeli Arab Christians who are volunteering to serve in the IDF. They would be very happy to meet you in a war, but this option is extremely improbable: you obviously belong to the group of human dirt who are extremely big heroes with sending others to fight and die for their cause.
            And finally: Next time before you post don’t forget to look up your subject in the Wikipedia, this won’t help fixing your ignorance but giving them a click so you – first time in your wretched life – would do something positive.

            • Right and I thought the Palestinians did not exist -and now you have served with Palestinian Christians – Get away. Did you serve with George Habbash by any chance?

              • This is the high time to learn read Jane; please take look again at what I wrote. To be sure I’ll explain you again: I sereved with Israeli Arab and non-arab Christians and not Palestinians. Don’t let this small but significant distinction to stand in your way to understand the world. Regarding your question: No, I didn’t serve with Habash (only one “b” please) but saw the dead children in Ma’alot who have been murdered by his heroes – your comrades.

                • Did you serve with Omro Nafa, A Palestinian Druze who is in prison for being a refusenik or is a wrong kind of Druze for you a racist to associate with. I understand the Pope met with the families of the two teenagers murdered by the IDF.

                • druze are not Palestiniasn that is why they decided to fight with the Jews against the invading arab countries and local arabs in 1948 war,

                • LyingJane constantly distorts the truth and the facts. On purpose or just sheer idiocy? Anyway, a real and disgusting antisemite, inciting hate against Jews which leads to Brussels and elsewhere

              • “Right and I thought the Palestinians did not exist -and now you have served with Palestinian Christians ”
                He never mentioned Palestinians. You seem to want to make anyone who isn’t Jewish into a so-called Palestinian, SadisticTerroristSupportingNatziePampersRacistApartheidJane.

      • Not really. He visited Herzel grave, and the memorial for terrors attack victims murderd by your friends among other places.

        • Ah the good Omro Nafa whose papa is in jail because he cooperated with Syrian agents. BTW Abu Omro was a member of the Israeli Knesset – this is for the Israeli Apartheid state.
          And I would bring to your attention again the fact: Both father and son are Israeli and not Palestinian. While I accept the fact that Jew haters and other racist assholes (speaking about you so please pay attention) have only a infinitesimal ability to understand simple texts but you are an extremely ostentatious specimen. You should contribute to the Guardian jane they would publish your crap happily.
          I understand the Pope met with the families of the two teenagers murdered by the IDF.
          Really? One thing is sure (I hope) – He didn’t advise them to pass information about how to deal with their overall 144 virgins in Paradise.

          • This post was intended a reply to this blog’s idiot de jour Jane The Illiterate Wannabe Shahid.

          • Peter you are a prat but you deny it. Unlike you, Omro and his Papa are Palestinians and they do not deny it.

            • Then maybe they should go and live in Syria, or under the authority of the PA/HAMAS. The problem is that they are traitors to their fellow Druze countrymen but not that stupid.
              And BTW ask them whether they have a Palestinian ID or an Israeli? Yes little cretin – they are Palestinians…

            • Unlike me they are Palestinians? Jane this sentence even from you is something unique in its stupidity. Have I ever said that I’m a Palestinian?

              • I did not know you were a Palestinian – I thought you were a Zionist colonialist thinking somebody gave you this land

                • Actaully it was Jews under British mandate who called themselves Palestinains not arabs. Arabs so themselves as syrian.

                • One can’t be a coloniser of your own land, which means Israelis are home and those Arab Supremacist squatters only called “Palestinians” since 1967 CE should return to their ancient homeland of Arabia!

                  As an option, these filthy Hamas piglets Janie cheers on in their murderous Hitler-inspired campaign can return to exactly where this mythical “Islamic-Arab State of Palestine” was in 70 CE, providing they can provide a historically verifiable map showing this Islamist Entity located there.

                  Allahu-Akbar! Yisrael-Akbar!

              • They are living in Palestine. They would not move anywhere else. Is that not your problem?

                • When, Janie dear, when will you pick up your AK-47 and fight the Jews in their land? When will you go forth and become Shahid-ed like those filthy Hamas piglets in Bitunia?

                • They are living in Israel.They have Israeli id, they vote for the Israeli parlament. They are paying and getting paid by the natioanl insurance institue of Israel .. If they considerd themselves Palestinian why are they voting for the Israeli knesset? why don;t they mind getting paid by the national insurace of Israel. . Hypocricy of them don;t you think.

      • I think his visit was a pR disaster for christian all over the ME . He didn;t really wanted to offend muslim so not a word about them fleeing the Middle east excep for Israel.. just the usual lies about Jesus was Palesitnian. etc. Probalby made him shudder inside but again seeing how mulsim are so sensitvie he had to keep his mouth shut

        • alexa the persecution of Christians was mentioned on several occasions. One of which is the section below from the ‘Common Declaration of Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I’ in Jerusalem 25th May 2014;
          ” From this holy city of Jerusalem, we express our shared profound concern for the situation of Christians in the Middle East and for their right to remain full citizens of their homelands. In trust we turn to the almighty and merciful God in a prayer for peace in the Holy Land and in the Middle East in general. We especially pray for the Churches in Egypt, Syria, and Iraq, which have suffered most grievously due to recent events. We encourage all parties regardless of their religious convictions to continue to work for reconciliation and for the just recognition of peoples’ rights. We are persuaded that it is not arms, but dialogue, pardon and reconciliation that are the only possible means to achieve peace.”

          Note that in spite of the bullshit spread beforehand, by Tehran Jane and her ilk, about Christians in Israel it is the plight of Christians in Egypt, Syria and Iraq that is highlighted.

        • I think his visit was a pR disaster for christian all over the ME . He didn;t really wanted to offend muslim so not a word about them fleeing the Middle east excep for Israel

          Eh? He made a point of visiting Syrian (Christian) refugees in Jordan.

      • Jane: “the Zionist entity”. Grow up and move into the 21st Century. Outside of your SWP meetings you sound like a pre-programmed Ba’athist moron from the 1950’s.

  6. No pray of the Pope will help the soul of LyingJane. It is damned and doomed.according to Christian faith.

  7. Franciscus was invited by Netanyahu to the memorial of the vicitms of Arab terror. Following the invitation Franciscus was informed by Netanyahu about the terror preventing fence and its positive effectsfor the civil population of Israel. Franciscus was impressed, IslamistJane still searches for a loophole to become martyr.
    Nevertheless we wish her bad luck, although she offers us such a relief.

  8. Funny Alexa – you demanded to be allowed to enter Palestine on compassionate grounds and now you claim it is yours and if you are indigenous to Palestine go somewhere else ungrateful or what?

    • Jane I refuse to believe that anyone even a Jew-hater could be this idiot. I finally discovered that you are a Zionist agent paid to play a caricature of a so called pro-Palestinian activist and I claim my five bucks. Do you really think that the Jews in Israel have been allowed to live here on compassionate grounds?! Fantastic…
      Seriously you are doing very serious damage to the Palestinian cause so be prepared for a visit by the Mukhabarat.
      About your stone-throwing shahids: Probably their untimely death saved the life of one or two even more young Muslim Palestinian women who marry or want to marry with other than their parents wish.

    • Oh, Janie dear…..*facepalm*

      Show us on the pre-1967 CE historically verifiable dolly/map where this mythical “Islamic-Arab State of Palestine” existed, please……..

    • Wow you sure have a way of twisting words. I didn;t demand anything this was given to Jews by the internatioal comunity recognziing their historic conection to the land . I didn;t need to demand anything my family was living here long before 48.
      2 question for you
      Do you want to see the end of the Jewish state
      Why didn’t the arabs created a Plaetsinain state in the West Bank and Gaza until 67.

        • I can;t compete with the Palesitnian seeing that they lived there 6000 years ago or was it 10,000 not sure.
          Any answer to my questions?

  9. SillyJane dreams of a fictional Palestine, but is timid of fulfilling her dedication as shahid, the poor idiot.

  10. Jane, what are you getting out of all the posts you make here? The points you make are so antithetical to normal understanding that I believe you have a real problem, and until you recognise this fact you will not find any help. I started following you here laughing at your comments, but now I feel sorry for you.

  11. Saba are you talking about the normal understanding based on the Zionist view where you are just returning to your home after being away for 2000 years than obviously you are right and I am eternally grateful.

    However, the normal understanding that is not delusional about matters historic than can I return the favor and offer my sincere sorrow and I hope you very soon return to earth.

    • You do need to read some real history. Jews were living here when the muslim occupied Palstine. Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem ,
      In the 10th century, leaders of the Karaite Jewish community, mostly living under Persian rule, urged their followers to settle in Eretz Yisrael. The Karaites established their own quarter in Jerusalem, on the western slope of the Kidron Valley. During this period, there is abundant evidence of pilgrimages to Jerusalem by Jews from various countries, mainly in the month of Tishrei, around the time of the Sukkot holiday
      The number of Jews migrating to the land of Israel rose significantly between the 13th and 19th centuries, mainly due to a general decline in the status of Jews across Europe and an increase in religious persecution. The expulsion of Jews from England (1290), France (1391), Austria (1421), and Spain (the Alhambra decree of 1492) were seen by many as a sign of approaching redemption and contributed greatly to the messianic spirit of the time

      After the fall of the Byzantine Empire in 1453 and the expulsion of Jews from Spain (1492) and Portugal (1498), many Jews made their way to the Holy Land. Then the immigration in the 18th and early 19th centuries of thousands of followers of various Kabbalist and Hassidic rabbis, as well as the disciples of the Vilna Gaon and the disciples of the Chattam Sofer, added considerably to the Jewish populations in Jerusalem, Tiberias, Hebron, and Safed.

      So you see Jews where retruning home during all centuries prior to zionism. Don;t forget Jerusalem had a jewish majority since 1860 which as you know is beofre the zionist aliyas which started at 1882.
      YOu can find it all on the net.

      • Alexa Everywhere in the world there has been movementso of peoples throughout history and there is nothing wrong with it except for xenophobes who play no role in history except in few concentrated episodes of murder and mayhem amidst severe crises.

        Jews went to many parts of the world including Palestine. In various times in history they even came to Europe and they left Europe to go to the Maghreb and the MIddle East.

        However, the Zionist movement was the first time that a project was devised to move the Jews to Palestine and to remove the indigenous peoples from their lands. This was only possible because of the power of the European Empires that were also keen to establish a base in the orient and to rid of its own, what they saw, as a Semitic problem. France and Britain as Empires. were xenophobic at home and were keen to get rid of that the saw as the other amidst them.

        In France, the support for the Zionist project was very popular and at the same time anti-semitic racism was rife. In Britain, the main proponents of the Balfour declaration were thoroughly anti-semitic. The only Jew in the British cabinet opposed the declaration because it reflected anti-semitic racism in Britan.

        Perhaps you are more immersed in ideology than real history. The Jews like any other people have diverse roots. Have travelled the world like any other peoples.

        It is the Zionist insistince to rid Palestine of its indegenous people that is problematic. .

        • Oh, Janie, yet more hogwash from bitter, lil’ you……..

          1.) Show the historically verifiable pre-1967 CE map showing this mythical “Islamic-Arab State of Palestine” that you continue to claim existed before the Jewish State was re-established.

          2.) Explain how an exploding population of filth “Palestinian” piglets is equivalent to “genocide”.

          3.) Explain your bitterness at two Hamasnik terrorists-in-training given Shahid-ness, as they requested, from the IDF in Bitunia.

          • D MO So you admit to being a child killer – although you claim they asked you to kill them. Now jump from that tower you moron and if we do not hear from you again we will know you are as gullible as you make out to be

            • There we have the old blood libel. Adam, it`s time to end the primitive`s stay.

              • a) Moronic as Jane Mardell is, where’s the blood libel?
                b) And you have no problem with DMO’s reference to ‘filth “Palestinian” piglets’?

                • Better keep out of my way, idiot, when you can`t read and understand the word child killer.

                • @ Fritz

                  If you have no answer, just say so. No need to make yourself look so juvenile.

                • Fritz, your debating skills have somewhat lessened of late. I asked a perfectly reasonable question, and your response is a) “Better keep out of my way, idiot” (or else what? – pretty hilarious) and b) “shut up, idiot.”

              • Here is your friend confessing to the murder of two Palestinian teenagers and it did not impact your sensibilities. Why not?

                • Here is your friend confessing to the murder of two Palestinian teenagers

                  D MO is clearly a bigot – but where on earth did he make such a confession?

                • Jane: “Here is your friend confessing to the murder of two Palestinian teenagers”

                  Meanwhile in Syria, tens of thousands of minors killed, but no anguished cries of murder from Jane. Her only obsession, the injustice and humiliation of being the victim the Jew empowered. (I see you are clinging on to the hope that it really is true that the ‘Zionists’ killed two Palestinian teenagers in cold blood). Something already discredited by most except for the loony fringe of Nazi, Islamist or SWP Jew-haters.

                  Jane, write this out one hundred times and post it here when your done; I must try harder to disempower the Jews and put them back in their rightful place, so that the the world can return to normality.

              • Fritz this is what your friend D MO said ” Explain your bitterness at two Hamasnik terrorists-in-training given Shahid-ness, as they requested, from the IDF in Bitunia.” Perhaps you would explain what it means. Nothing to do with blood libel – but saying they asked for it and were shot is to say the least is not very sensitive to those who lost their children.

            • Oh, Janie, off your meds yet again? 8^D Or can’t you admit you’re incapable of providing answers to my queries? Hmmmmmm?

        • Jane Jews went all over the world after they were exiled form their land. Their roots unlike other allways belonged in Israel. When Jews pray they face Jerusalem when Jews wed they vow never to forget jerusalem ,when Jews read the Haggada in Passover Seder they end by saying next year in Jerusalem. Archeologic prove that Jews belonged here long before Palestine was occupied by the muslims. Jews were forced to leave but still many stayed and never left. Jews were allways coming to Israel as I showed no matter where they stayed. Why did they when they could have done better in other places? Why did Jews left their homes in Yemen to come here in the end of the 19th century when turkey was rulling not european countries why not somewhere else?why did tousands of jews came here during the ottoman occupation they could have gone to the US or other western countires as many jews did yet still tousands of Jews chose to come here why if they didn;t have historic ties to the land? Codition where harsh here people were dying of malaria yet still they came.
          I’ll ask you again Jews were coming in time of the turkish occupation do you suggest that the Turks let Jews expel the so called indegenous people
          I am probaly wasting my time becasue as allways you will be twisting everything and not really answer because you never answer to the point.

          • That is why they did not go to USA
            As the St. Louis steamed toward Havana from Hamburg, Germany, with nearly 1,000 Jews fleeing the Nazis aboard, Recha Weiler desperately nursed her dying husband, Moritz. While other passengers enjoyed the elegance of the civilized cruise after the repressions and humiliations of Germany, Weiler spent most of the voyage in her cabin with Moritz. But her efforts failed. The university professor died aboard the ship and was buried at sea.

            An estimated half of the passengers were to die later, after both the US and Cuba rejected their pleas for refuge and the cruel 40-day journey sent them back to Europe to face the Nazis. Some 59 years after the St. Louis’s desperate passage back and forth across the Atlantic, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and its Survivors’ Registry are trying to trace the fates of its passengers, including Recha Weiler, the 61-year-old widow originally from Cologne.

            The St. Louis left Germany on May 13, 1939. Its passengers, most of them from Germany, had expensive documents – some bogus – for entry into Cuba. When the ship arrived, however, Havana – and the US – refused to admit them. The St. Louis sat in the harbor for days. Desperate relatives packed motorboats and approached the anchored liner, shouting messages to loved ones. All awaited the outcome of frantic international negotiations to allow the refugees to disembark.

            Ultimately, only 29 passengers were permitted to land in Havana. Then the ship was ordered to leave – maneuvering slowly and tantalizingly near the coast of Florida before turning back to Europe. On June 17, 1939, the St. Louis docked at Antwerp: 214 passengers remained in Belgium, 224 went to France and 181 to the Netherlands. Another 288 passengers went ashore in Britain on June 21.

            But, the end of that journey was, for its passengers, the beginning of the Holocaust. “The fate of the 963 is a microcosm of the Holocaust,” said Scott Miller, a researcher at the American museum who is organizing the St. Louis project.

            There is no denying that the Jews thought they have a historic link to Palestine. Palestinians have a historic link and a link that is current and present. Any real or imagined historic link does not allow any group to throw another from their lands and their houses.

            The issue in Palestine today is the denial to the Palestinians the right to their own homes and lands.

            Why do you think Palestinians should be forced out of their homes today? Why should they not be allowed to return to their homes today?

            • Jane what has the st. louise to do with Jews coming to the US in the end of the 19th century.
              Jews thought? if they thought they wound;t come here to malaria instead of going to the us.
              Palestinians have a historic link ?what is that?
              Are there any Archaeological finds that show a Palestinian link?

              • They do not need archaeological evidence their houses are still standing above ground. Palestinians have keys to their real houses not imagined ones that David built 3000 years ago.

  12. There never was a real Palestine, it is just a denomination from the times of Christian imperialism, stolen by some Arab ideologues without education.
    Jews lving in the region were called Palestinians by these Christian missionaries/colonial enterprisers.
    So funny that the muslim Arabs took over a colonial denomination by Christians. Another prove, confirming the devastating reports of Arab human development of the UN:

    • “In the meantime, the giant arsenals of WMD in existence, the American, Russian, Chinese, Israeli, Pakistani, and Indian ones that might actually have left a crippled or devastated planet behind, remained largely off the American radar screen. ”

      America’s “giant” arsenal of WMD remained largely off its radar screen?
      Reading this author it seems French and British WMD have entirely disappeared. That’s what I’d worry about if I had as much time on my minds for stupidity as he apparently does.

    • Thanks Fritz. Yes, I already saw that dirty little secret earlier today. Everyone should follow that link.

  13. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/662427/posts
    American Indians Aren’t Like Palestinians
    By: David Yeagley
    April 09, 2002

    MANY PEOPLE SEE A SIMILARITY BETWEEN American Indians and today’s Palestinians. I’m Comanche Indian. I see no similarity whatsoever.

    Comanches were once “Lords of the South Plains,” (Wallace & Hoebel, 1952). Arabs living in Palestine have never dominated anything but goats. Comanches were independent, and certainly not supported by two billion other Indian ‘brothers,’ like the Palestinian Arabs claim they’re supported by the Arab world.

    There’s no similarity in the land claim issue. Comanches, never numbering more than six or seven thousand, were simply strong enough to take over the American southwestern plains, first from other Indians, then from white people. Palestinians have accomplished nothing but suicide bombings.

    Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. They are leftover Arabs, residual of another age. Knowing Arab history is vital to understanding the situation in the Middle East. (Joan Peters’ From Time Immemorial (1984) is a ‘must read’ on this subject.)

    Arabs are from Arabia. Beginning in AD 622, under Mohammad, Arab “prophet” of Medina, the Islamic religion became a war machine and aggressively expanded from the Arabian Peninsula to all directions until AD 750 when it controlled North Africa westward to Spain and southern France, northward to Palestine and Armenia, and eastward 400 miles past the Indus River.

    It was spectacular achievement, one which clearly proved Islam to be not a religion of peace, but of dominance. Arabs intermarried, enslaved, and otherwise lorded over every culture they encountered. Arabs established the African and Asian slave routes, which are still used today for slave trade out of India and Nepal, as well as Africa and the Far East.

    European Christians finally fended off Islamic dominance to the east and west. By the 15th century, Muslims were ousted from Spain and from most of the Balkans by the 17th century. Mongolians broke Islamic dominance in the Orient. The last phase of Islamic political dominance, the Ottoman Empire (Turkey), ended in 1840 when Constantinople submitted to terms of Western powers in its dispute with Egypt. Turkey’s government declared itself secular by 1922.

    During all this time Palestine was little more than a wilderness of nomads, loosely associated groups of provincial subdivisions with frequently changing administrations. The people were a “pan-Arab” mix of gypsy-like leftovers, whom the General Syrian Congress of 1919 declared to be “the southern part of Syria.” It wasn’t considered “Palestine,” a separate Arab nationality, until the 1967 Six-Day War of Israel’s boundary expansions.

    A ‘Palestinian Arab nationality’ was something Musa Alami began asserting after 1948, as a political reaction against Israel. As R. Sayigh wrote, “A strongly defined Palestinian identity did not emerge until 1968, two decades after the expulsion [of some Arabs living in parts of Palestine],” (Journal of Palestine Studies, 1977). In twenty years, Alami’s myth took effect.

    But the land-by-residence claim gives Palestinian Arabs even less right. In 1950, United Nations Relief and Work Agency (UNRWA) defined a Palestinian Arab as one who had lived in Palestine a minimum of two years before 1948. This is no ancient claim.

    The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 BC. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century BC.

    Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century AD, over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive during their 1,200-year stay.

    Then a stronger people modern Jews who’d been expelled from their homes in Europe and in Arab countries came in and conquered (without annihilating) the Palestinian Arabs.

    As a Comanche Indian, I’m sensitive to this history. I believe the conqueror has a right to what he has conquered. No one owns the land. Only he who is strong enough to possess it will control it and the people living on it. That’s the law of war.

    Teddy Roosevelt once said, “Let sentimentalists say what they will, the man who puts the soil to use must of right dispossess the man who does not, or the world will come to a standstill.” (W. T. Hagan, Theodore Roosevelt and Six Friends of the Indians, 1997). The land developers, the agrarians, have become stronger than the hunters.

    In the case of Comanches, we lost a magnificent hunting empire, and a lot of ego with it. In the case of “Palestinian” Arabs, what is lost? Why their sense of humiliation?