Guardian

Test your knowledge of CiF threads: “Comment is Free” or Stormfront


Below we have excerpts of comments posted on both “Comment is Free” and Stormfront (for those not familiar with Stormfront, it is perhaps the most prominent of all neo-Nazi white supremacist hate sites).

See if you can successfully identify which comments are from “Comment is Free” and which are from Stormfront by making the appropriate selection below.

Results to be posted in two days.

Comment No. 1

“The real holocaust deniers are those hateful zionists who deny the fact that massacres, ethnic cleansing, expulsions against the Palestinians have taken place. In particular, they deny the fact that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled by the marauding Zionists in 1948, but instead blame the victims, whom they accuse of voluntarily leaving. Zionist extremists go as far as to deny the fact that even a Palestinian people”


Comment No. 2

“I’m not sure if 6 million Jews were systematically annihilated in the Holocaust. That figure seems incredibly high and unrealistic. It’s almost like a bunch of Jews got together one day during the Second World War and fabricated lies about genocide to elicit sympathy from the civilized world in an effort to establish a Jewish state at the expense of the Palestinians. Oh wait! That really did happen!”


Comment No. 3

“I am getting on for sixty years of age. I do, in fact, remember when the term “The Holocaust” was coined. It was in the mid-1970s. That was when the Hollywoodisation of these terrible camps in eastern Europe began.
I have no dispute with historians. I dispute cultural manipulators. That is why I will not use this term from the 1970s. The issue is entirely properly described as:
“German camps programme 1941-45”
… and there is no reason why we should ever use the manipulative “Holocaust”.”


Comment No. 4

“The Zionist state is accelerating its Hasbara campaign, by forming “Internet Warfare Squads”, their sole remit: to post pro-Israel responses on websites worldwide. This assault on free speech and effectively muzzling any criticism of Israel is a tool which will be used in the public relations war, the Zionist thought police are only a click away.

Ynet news reports that the Israel Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language and who study communication, political science, or law – or alternately, Israelis with military experience gained at units dealing with information analysis.

A budget of $150,000 has been set aside to pay the bloggers who will serve the Zionist state.

If the great and the good supporters of the Zionist state believed that their state is doing the right thing, then wouldn’t they be able to advocate their message without being paid?

Israeli Foreign Ministry officials are fighting what they see as a terrible and scary monster: the Palestinian public relations monster.

Yet nothing can be done to defeat it, regardless of how many foolish inventions will be introduced and how many bright communication students will be hired.

The reason is that good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories any prettier.

Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved.
Yet nonetheless, the Zionists want to change the perception of the world.”

Comment No. 5

“Zionist/ Israel, The Israeli Lobby and organized jewish power is more tyrannical, blood thirsty and despotic and opressive than any other government or organized political groups in the world. They are more like the Hollywood version of what a “Nazi” is more than anyone in history.

Of course what they did in Gaza and have been doing in all of Palestine since 1948 at least is a war crime and ethnic cleansing. Thje difference is if it’s jewish groups that do it all the sudden all kinds suspicious people come out of the woodwork in droves to defend it.

The Israeli leadership should all be tried for war crimes and ethnic cleansing and prosecuted to the full extenet of the law.”

Comment No. 6

“Interesting to see this article provoking the ZioNazis to come out of their holes. Note the references to the attacks of suicide bombers and no reference to Sabra, Chatila or the recent Gaza massacres. The reality is that the Israelis have created a giant ghetto in the West Bank. The daily harassment of Palestinians is little short of barbarous and shows that the Israeli state exists in a moral and ethical void. What is taking place is slow burn ethnic cleansing and it is no surprise that Israel was a key supporter of apartheid South Africa. The Israeli apologists on this site are cowards in every sense of the word because they resort to endless lying to justify the Israeli policy of lebensraum.”


41 replies »

  1. Hawkeye.

    Great idea.

    I wonder if Matt and Georgina will try?

    And even more interesting, what their score will be?

  2. Amazing Hawkeye. It is impossible to tell the difference. If Matt and Georgina and Whitless do it will you publish their answers?

  3. How do Matt, Georgina and the rest sleep at night? Isn’t the Guardian supposed to be a paper against racism? Why do they allow so much racism on CiF?

  4. Terrific idea, Hawkeye and all.

    As I’ve mentioned before and I’m sure most of you know- any comment either left posted after a single abuse-report, or by a commenter that is not banned after an abuse-report, it is legally equivalent to the Guardian writing the comment, and the Guardian face full legal liablity for it.

    I hope it’s just a matter of time until someone picks up the legal gauntlet.

  5. Will it be revealed that they’re all from CIF? That wouldn’t altogether surprise me.

    One thing I think you should clarify. Were the CiF comments allowed to stand, or were they removed, or were some of them removed and others allowed to stand? The worst ones do tend to disappear after a while. This of course doesn’t affect the fact that CiF attracts such people as honey attracts wasps, and that is a significant fact about the editorial policy, but it does have a bearing on what you’re trying to achieve here.

    Incidentally (with respect to an earlier thread), I’ve had comments removed that were very mildly critical of Ed Husain – far milder than the true things Melanie Phillips was saying about him, and far, far milder than the comments about Mel that were allowed to stand. We all know about double standards over there, but the extravagant respect accorded to that charlatan is really something else.

  6. Heresiarch, if the one mentioning “1941-1945” is from Ci(F) it isn’t from a British commenter.

    Hawkeye: great idea!

  7. I took the test, but I actually think the results will be a bit misleading, because all the comments here would clearly go down very well with the Stormfront crowd. If people who know Cif can pick out which of the examples here are likely from Cif, it’s only because there will be some clues for Cif readers who know the particular obsessions there.

  8. Comment is Free is full of scurrilous antisemitic smears and allegations but the Guardian doesn’t mind too much. Every wonder why it’s PC to smear and slander Zionists/Jews? Follow the money !

  9. CiF or Stormfront.Is there a difference between the two? If there is, then I have yet to find this difference.

    There is the mumbling type of anti semitism.that the dumb postie spews,then there is the outright anti semitism that morean and her ilk spew.
    Half a dozen of one,and six of the other.

  10. What a superb idea!

    FooledmeOnce – good point. Of course CiF endorses the antisemitism it doesn’t bother to delete, which makes it complicit in incitement by the use of hate speech…

  11. icclearly

    “the outright anti semitism that morean and her ilk spew.”

    “her”? As in the female (satanic banshee) form? What makes you think that?

  12. I have a dark sense of humour, but you have to wonder at the thinking power behind the comparison in the following:

    “…They are more like the Hollywood version of what a “Nazi” is more than anyone in history…

    What sort of a “giant” intellect accuses a people of being more like a Hollywood version of anything and believes that he/she is carrying an argument, and by so doing, is this “giant” complimenting or insulting Israel/Zionists/Jews???

    (PS: I’m guessing that this is Papalagi Prattle. It sounds just like the idiocy Papapapapgulp promulgates).

  13. Guess whose profile this is.

    Real name: Stephen
    Location: London
    Age: 62
    Gender: Male

    My name is a tribute to a twentieth century composer, E.J. XXXXXX, who deserves to be more widely known. His settings of AE Housman’s “A Shropshire Lad” uniquely explore the English soul , despite Xxxxxx’s Irish roots.
    I am a retired Secondary School Headmaster and frequent visitor to Palestine. I love the country and the people and Iam privileged to count Palestinians among my friends.

    I have suffered over fifty years as a Chelsea supporter but seldom contribute to posts on this subject; unlike other contributors, I have seen it all before and recognise Chelsea’s special relationship with tragedy.

  14. Hawkeye

    Great idea, clever post. I guessed and clicked that most were from CiF – now I suppose the results will show they all are! No surprise there I suppose.

  15. Great. Just shows how little difference there actually is between the extreme right and the extreme left.

  16. I think that you should send this info to Melanie Phillips at the Spectator and request that she write her blog on this. It’s really very important. The fact that The Guardian is MORE anti-Semitic and fascist than a white supremacist website is horrifying.

  17. Sara it could well be Moron.

    “… I have seen it all before and recognise Chelsea’s special relationship with tragedy…”

    ??????

    Like Chelsea’s “tragedy” is on a par with the terrorism visited by Hamas! Only Moron’s thinking can be so derailed.

  18. Hawkeye, I agree with Romo. You should send the results of this to Melanie Phillips, whether or not the quotes are from CiF.

    I agree that this is an excellent article.

  19. Heresiarch.

    Now theres a moniker that I haven’t seen on CI(F) for quite a while.

    GrandOldMan too. Anyone know what happened to him?

    And ExiledLondoner seems to have …. disappeared.

  20. Don’t remember exactly how I voted but I think at least 50% were from CiF.

    Isn’t there a danger that by exposing and discussing these CiF monsters so often we may become just a bit blasé about them and even start missing them a little when they’ve gone ( along with CiF ) ?

    The shame of it all is that the Guardian has ruined its reputation, sold its soul and lent itself to such infamy. CiF has turned into a nest of vipers ever willing to accuse the Jews (as in that notorious poem by T.S. Eliot) of being underneath it all. Of course, Eliot was expressing a well-known English middle-class antisemitism that was common 100 years ago. Today, this virus is carried and propagated largely by Arabs and their useful idiots of whom The Guardian is a leading example.

  21. I’m pleased to see the loathsome “Spectre Over Europe” has also been dust-binned by CIF. Doubtless he’ll reappear with another moniker but in the meantime, that’s another one down thanks to you guys.

  22. I immediately recognised the first post. CiF. I might indeed have cited it to the mods myself, in fact.
    (there have been so many)

    But why doesn’t the poster tell us how many of these nasty posts are still standing?

    What’s your point?

    And why all the seemingly sycophantic congrats to Hawkeye here?
    This is the WWW, after all.

    Comparing the material – left standing – on CiF with that on StormFront is frankly laughable.

    You cannot be serious.

    p.s. Did ANYBODY here ever correct that poster who claimed that CiF threads being shut down overnight GMT constituted a “conniving” plan to exclude US Jews?

  23. @ Yohoho

    “FooledmeOnce – good point. Of course CiF endorses the antisemitism it doesn’t bother to delete”

    CiF endorses antisemitism? FFS.
    And all the racist anti-Arab material posted means what, then?

  24. pretzel, anti-Arab/anti-Muslim material does not last long, if at all, compared with the “acceptable” Jew-hatred. There is evidence here aplenty that Jew-hatred remains and that the posts which complain about it get deleted.

    And have you asked yourself why people feel that Comment is so Free that they can post such anti-Jewish racism in the first place? What is it about the enabling environment of CiF which attracts Jew-hatred like flies around sh*t?

    And as for your mean-spirited “..And why all the seemingly sycophantic congrats to Hawkeye here?..

    Perhaps it is Hawkeye’s idea (and it’s a good one, whoever thought it up) to point up that there is precious little difference between the extreme right and the extreme left as regards Jew-hatred?

    So get used to it. It was indeed a good idea, whether Hawkeye’s or not, to run with this article. Get over yourself.

  25. Hawkeye – when you post the results, please name names – there are a couple there I remember, and I’m pretty sure I remember who wrote them.

    Heresiach – its been a while!

    Checking a couple of well-known monikers mentioned above:

    I’d forgotten about Exiledlondoner – but he’s still around, maybe decided like some others to stop wasting his time on the endless merry-go-round of the I/P papalagi/moeran/namokle/freedman/lerman carousel?? He and I used to have some pretty good arguments … exiled – come over here and make yourself heard!!

    spectreovereurope has not decided to confine himself solely to comments worthy of stormfront – he’s just been a little quite recently.

    Pretzel – say what you like – this is a much freer discussion, and the articles are much more factual. The only decent I/P articles I’ve seen recently on CiF were from Sharon and Ibish.

    The rest is the usual junk used as bait for Israel bashers and anti-Semites.

  26. pretzel – the WHOLE POINT of this site is that the Guardian is careful that it does not endorse anti-Semitism but it offers a welcoming space for those who do.

    Even when comments are deleted, the point is that the anti-Semites have themselves noticed that the Guardian is an easy target and they can get away with most anti-Semitic comments with a little care. Whether CW pints it out or not, they themselves have indicted the Guardian by their presence on the threads, many for years.

    People have been banned for comments about Islam or Moslems that aren’t a fraction of the comments you see above, while those making them – and I’m guessing that about 5 are straight from CiF – seem to live charmed lives.

  27. pretzel – this just arrived.

    To me it illustrates the huge difference between the way many in Germany have tried to relate to “the Jewish problem”, as it was once known, vs the Guardian:

    http://www.stolpersteine-salzburg.at/

    By the way, it also deals with the euthanized and the Gypsies, which I think is a huge addition.

    I don;t know if you’ll see the connection, or difference, if you prefer, that I see between this kind of project which I understand is rapidly spreading across Germany and the Guardian, but I see it very clearly.

  28. pretzelberg (who is greatly offended about halal dog jokes)

    “But why doesn’t the poster tell us how many of these nasty posts are still standing?”

    Why don’t you tell us who many of the commenters who posted them are still allowed on CiF? So they can post similiar comments until those are (sometimes) deleted too, after many, many, hours.

    “And why all the seemingly sycophantic congrats to Hawkeye here?
    This is the WWW, after all.”

    That’s right. And in the WWW we can still express congrats if we feel like it without patronizing shmucks like you to disdain over it. What an absolute pointless page-filler you are.

    Run along now back to CiF to continue your agenda of not actually saying anything while trying very hard to look highbrow and objective.

  29. I think

    Stormfront: 1, 3, 4

    CIF: 2, 5, 6 (obviously)

    I think it’s relatively easy to tell them apart. But, we’ll see.

  30. zkharya, some of the adolescent writing styles are a dead giveaway of CiF – lifted straight out of some ISM booklet no doubt and memorised and churned out as kneejerk reactions. I am unsure about some of the others though.

    AKUS, I agree that CiF doesn’t itself write antisemitism, but I remember the bruhaha about Bungle’s remark that a certain comment about a Muslim was published only because the paper had a Jewish editor.

    I seem to remember that the mods had more wisdom then (or La Henry had bound and gagged them), because the Bungler was utterly pasted for that with the result that, when formal complaint was made about the article, La Henry said that the posters themselves had taken him to task so she didn’t have to do so, the worm.

    FooledmeOnce, good question for pretzelberg. I am waiting for his answer.

  31. Akus wrote, the Guardian is careful that it does not endorse anti-Semitism
    Mitnaged wrote, I agree that CiF doesn’t itself write antisemitism

    To write or endorse anti-Semitism, the Guardian need not actually say the words, “We hate Jews and want them eliminated.” It may instead act with deliberation to achieve that end.

    The Guardian has for years pubished a daily drip of anti-Semitic poison above the line, including articles demanding Britain’s orthodox Jews assimilate, accusing Jews of crucifying Gibson, implying the Kennedy assassination the fault of the Jewish state, making European Jews guilty for Israel’s actions, implying Jews control the Foreign Office, demanding European Jews show no group identity nor support of Israel, insisting Israel must disappear, providing a platform for Arab orgnisations sworn to genocide of Jews, and sponsoring and promulgating a multitude of devices (such as Churchill’s) to stimulate and spread hatred of Jews.

    All this, again, above the line. Does the Guardan hate Jews? Yes, without doubt. Does it want them eliminated – physically from the Mideast, culturally from Europe? Yes, without doubt.

    The Guardian’s actions and editorial policy not only endorse anti-Semitism in practise but actively encourage it and have waged a relentless war of either physcal or cultural annihilation against Jews and the Jewish identity.

  32. The same happened with worldwide so-called city census data website City-Data.com.

    Take a gander over into their sites history/Politics/and General forums. The membership there are right out of stormfront.

    Literally. If you lurk SF or google its caches, you can find announcements on the hate-site requesting membership to come over to city data to recruit and spread their ‘truth’ (bigoted lies). You can also find that members regularly copy and paste SF threads into CD, only with slightly modified titles and removed racial slurs.

    After conflict with several members, no fewer than 4 moderators and the admin named ‘markablue’ flat out stated they have no problem with racism and antisemetism on the forum, but will actively delete or ban posts which call out, attack or offer counter points to mentioned racism.