26 replies »

  1. There’s rather too much of it to read comfortably but the gist seems to be that there’s nothing wrong with this kind of discrimination – and I agree.

    It is rather discriminatory of The Guardian editor to call Israeli Arabs “Palestinians”. In fact it is bigoted, dishonest and aimed at perpetuating the Arab fantasia.

  2. I suspect the pretext the moderator used was ‘judenrein’. But it would have been pretty much a pretext. The case is put strongly and very well. I suspect that is why it was deleted.

    CIFWatch is showing, I think, statistical evidence of systemic (if not systematic) discrimination against pro-Israel posters. But you would be foolish if you think you can do anything about it.

    The Guardian needs to stay afloat and in circulation. Anti-Israel sells. It’s ‘democracy’.

  3. In a better world The Guardian would take a lead from Arutz Sheva (Yes to a Loyalty Oath for Israel)

    “Israel is the Jewish homeland and is obligated to defend the rights of all of its willing and loyal citizens. This inspired democracy owes its people and the world freedom and rule of law. The Jewish State, however, owes self destruction to no man, country or ideal. Israelis and Jews the world over must continue to amalgamate the wisdom of our scripture and commentaries with the founding texts of the great democracies. Israel must show the world what it means to be an unapologetically Jewish democracy that is quite the opposite of Saudi Arabia and Iran, where Levy would be jailed for sedition rather than published and even praised.”

    [That’s Gideon Levy]

  4. zkharya, you wrote:
    “The case is put strongly and very well. I suspect that is why it was deleted.”

    That’s exactly what I was about to say.

  5. The people sponsoring the “Loyalty Oath” are those who are the first to claim that all Arabs are liars …..

  6. CrapInTheMind,

    You must be of the mind that all Israelis are liars and all Arabs are peace loving flower petal dropping angels – including the osama bin laden branch of the Religion of Peace.

  7. Stupid oath , those who are keep on discussing it are even stupider .
    The voice of Israel comment was delete for the use of the word “Judenrein” (a land without Jews would have sufficed ), its maybe a stupid reason for deletion but its not a mystery .

  8. Eddie:
    Do you have trouble understanding English ? Do you agree with the statement that there are people in Israel who think that all Arabs are liars ? If yes, do you think that they support the loyalty oath proposal or disagree with it ?

  9. ‘Do you agree with the statement that there are people in Israel who think that all Arabs are liars ?’

    Do you agree with the statement that pretty much all anti-Semites today are anti-Zionists, and love The Guardian’s stance on Israel, which gives it as wide a circulation among its target readership as possible?

  10. Do you agree with the statement that there are people in Israel who think that all Arabs are liars ?

    I agree with it, for it would be impossible not to do so. All countries have citizens of limited mental agility, although Israel has fewer than her neighbours, who in startling numbers are apparently able to believe the most absurd of suppositions, provided they reflect badly upon Israel, and, by extension, Jews. The question of whether Arabs, or perhaps more accurately, Muslim Arabs, count as a feature of their manner of discourse with Jews, a tendency to lie, is interesting, and needs to be explored. Do they lie because they genuinely lie, and know the truth before their mendacity, or do they utter falsehoods because they are unable to differentiate truth from fiction? I suspect that few lie, for the majority are boundlessly credulous, but there are many who know perfectly well that though their accusations against Israel are without foundation, they will appeal to those many of limited discernment and moral poverty whose desire is the age old persecution of Jews because they are Jews.

  11. THH.
    What’s wrong with judenrein? Explain why it should be deleted—- does it contrave the CiF’s guidelines?
    MTC
    I have no doubt that there are people in every country on the planet who think mad things about their minority citizens—- so what?
    btw, as you well know, the Koran not only allows, but sanctions lying, in order to further Islamic principles.

  12. I would urge all to repeatedly make the point that Israeli Arabs are not “Palestinians” any more than Jordanian Arabs do not use that term for themselves since the Arabs living on the WB and and Gaza have taken that term for themselves.

    Consistently use the term “Israeli Arabs” to drive the point home in opposition to the Guardian’s attempt to brand every Arab west of the Jordan a “Palestinian”.

    Actually, it would hurt to use the terms “Gazans” or “Gaza Arabs” and “West Bankers” or “West Bank Arabs” rather than “Palestinians” since there never has been and is not (and if they continue the way they are going, never will be) a Palestinian state. The term was used under the Mandate to refer to Jews as well as Arabs – in fact, it seem from my reading of articles from that time, only to the Jewish population of Palestine.

  13. Sarah Jane:
    That’s not the point. The question is whether Israelis who think that all Arabs are liars support the loyalty oath, and more specifically whether the MKs who have promoted this legislation are on public record as stating that all Arabs cannot be trusted.

  14. I don’t think the VoiceOfIsrael’s comment was deleted because he used the word ‘judenrein’, it was because he had the temerity to accuse the Palestinians of wanting a judenrein state.

    It is verboten to criticize the Palestinians on Cif, and especially verboten to accuse them of racism. It ruins their image as cuddly hapless victims, and the Guardian needs cuddly Palestinians to pursue its demonization of Israel.

    That’s why they never report what the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza actually get up to of course.

  15. Ariadne :”It is rather discriminatory of The Guardian editor to call Israeli Arabs “Palestinians”. In fact it is bigoted, dishonest and aimed at perpetuating the Arab fantasia.”

    Sadly this is how the Israeli arabs classify themselves as.

    The good thing about calling one self an Israeli Palestinian is that they classify themselves first as Israelis and secondly as Palestinians.

    They might be able to obtain 2 passports in the future (one Israeli and another Palestinian) which is more than I can say about any Jewish citizen of Israel…

  16. MTC,

    “Do you agree with the statement that there are people in Israel who think that all Arabs are liars ? If yes, do you think that they support the loyalty oath proposal or disagree with it ?”

    I agree with the first bit.
    I disagree strongly with the second one.
    Let’s say that all arabs are liars. Will their oath be trust worthy?

    No MTC, people in Israel, or anywhere for that matter, who think all Arabs are liars, do not wish to see Arabs enter their state.

    They are extremely sad people, just like the ones which believe all Jews are liars…

  17. Pretzelberg,

    It appears that the use of the word verboten is “IN” through some circles.

    Now ask me why I was wearing torn jeans in high school and had a pony tail….

  18. Itzik:

    “Let’s say that all arabs are liars. Will their oath be trust worthy?”

    That’s the entire point of my comment !!!!

  19. MTC It seems that your assessment of supporters of the loyalty oath approximates their assessment of Arabs. I’d call it TEKO and leave it at that.

  20. “riadne :”It is rather discriminatory of The Guardian editor to call Israeli Arabs “Palestinians”. In fact it is bigoted, dishonest and aimed at perpetuating the Arab fantasia.”

    It’s encouraging a separate national identity which will further isolate them from Israeli Jews.

    The Guardian is (not so) subtly encouraging that division and alienating, while condemning Israeli Jews for doing the same thing.

    It’s called having your cake and eating it.

  21. Germolene:

    “MTC It seems that your assessment of supporters of the loyalty oath approximates their assessment of Arabs.”

    Their assessment of Arabs = liars …..

  22. MTC
    Their assessment of Arabs = negative
    Your assessment of them = negative

    I didn’t say that their assessment was the same but that it approximated it.

  23. Itsik, Sadly this is how the Israeli arabs classify themselves as. All of them? Is so, that is sad. House built upon sand, surely.

    And, as ,,,,beating your wife says having your cake and eating it.

  24. Repeated posts of mine here have been deleted.

    I was simply pointing out the obvious, i.e. that Adam must know that the poster’s use of the word “judenrein” was probably the reason for the deletion.