Guardian

The Guardian: aspiring to become the PSC’s ventriloquist’s dummy?


The British fringe group known as the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) may not be large in numbers, but it is certainly big on noise.  Its ‘one-stater’ members have a particular penchant for radical chic, taking  part in convoys, flotillas, flytillas, and frequent demonstrations and events starring supporters and  members of terrorist organisations. 

The PSC’s director Sarah Colborne was a member of the executive committee which organised the Global March to Jerusalem. She was also recently in Gaza, together with PSC chair Hugh Lanning, as part of the Interpal-organised ‘Miles of Smiles convoy. Interpal is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood’s Union of Good, headed by homophobic and anti-Semitic hate preacher Yusuf al Qaradawi

Obviously, these extremists at the PSC – who both support and enable terror organisations proscribed by the British government and behave like star-struck teenage pop fans whenever their racist, homophobic, misogynistic heroes come to town – would not be the type of bedfellow the socially responsible Left liberal progressives at the Guardian would go out of their way to support. 

Or would they? 

The PSC has recently been running a high-profile campaign on behalf of Mahmoud Sarsak – an active member of the military wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (or – in less euphemistic terms – a member of a violent terror organisation) currently held in Israel under administrative detention laws because (as Adam Levick has already pointed out on these pages) numerous judges in both the District Court and the Supreme Court in Israel are convinced that he poses a real danger to the public

“In its response, the State claimed that the Supreme Court should uphold the district court’s decision and referred the Supreme Court to current intelligence information that indicates that the appellant continued to maintain ties with the PIJM and its military activity even from within the detention facility. Moreover, the assessment of ISA’s experts is that the combination of the appellant’s high motivation and expertise in manufacturing and training others in the use of explosive weapons raises the probability that if released, Sarsak would be reintegrated into the PJIM in Gaza promptly and would endanger the security of the State.”

Of course the PSC does not inform the public about that aspect of Mahmoud Sarsak’s activities.  Instead, it chooses to focus exclusively upon the fact that he is also a footballer. PSC newsletters implore their recipients to telephone the UK Foreign Secretary and contact their MPs on Sarsak’s behalf as well as to put pressure on UEFA to cancel a football tournament in Israel next year, even providing handy letter templates for the purpose. 

Obviously, neither the PSC nor figures such as Eric Cantona who have signed a petition calling for Sarsak’s release care a jot about the civilians at risk should he be free to return to his PIJ terrorist activities. 

And seemingly neither does the Guardian, if we are to judge by the heart-string–tugging article by Harriet Sherwood on the subject on June 6th in which Sarsak’s extra-stadium activities were flippantly dismissed in one sentence:

“Sarsak’s family deny that he is a member of any militant organization.”

Since then, the Guardian appears to have upped its participation in the Sarsak campaign by publishing a letter on the subject from former MP and Socialist Campaign Group member John Austin on June 14th. Of course Austin failed to mention the background to Sarsak’s detention too. 

On June 17th, the Guardian ran another article by Hugh Muir, also featuring a half-baked version of the Sarsak story (he in fact began drinking milk several days before Muir’s article was written and his hunger strike has now ended) as well as neglecting to make any mention of Sarsak’s connections to a terrorist organization.

Muir also thought it fit to promote the latest PSC escapade entitled Palestine Place – a squat in London – which may appear bizarre until one appreciates the fact that he also appeared at an NUS conference in 2010 alongside Amena Saleem of the PSC, Anas Altikriti of the BMI and Luftur Rahman (mayor of Tower Hamlets), among others. 

Yet again, it appears that the Guardian has elected to patronizingly ignore ‘the public’s right to know’ all the details of a story it chooses to promote – repeatedly – if those details present stumbling blocks on the route to its broader agenda. 

Part of that agenda seems to involve an aspiration to become the Palestine Solidarity Campaign’s ventriloquist’s dummy. 

92 replies »

  1. There is nothing more violently terrorist than the IOF – what a pile of junk above – think I’ll join the PSC & read the Guardian from now on.

    • You should do both of them quickly Andrew. Apart from you being a perfect match to their intellectual and moral level, this step certainly will help you to overcome your frustration of being a loser.

      • Nah, the PSC don’t do 911 Truth & certainly don’t like it when u suggest Israeli involvement & nah again, the Guardian came out as pro-Iraq war, which we we now know was for Israel too.

        Whoops & more zionist name calling…

        • So “we now know” the Iraq war was “for Israel”. Thanks for enlightening us, Andrew. Strange isn’t it, that of all the public enquiries that have taken place since that war, not one of them came to that conclusion?

          Inconvenient, isn’t it?

          • And what, by the way, do 9/11 and the Iraq war have to do with this thread or any of the comments on it?

        • Andrew Silvera has no doubt been immersing himself in Walt and Mearscheimer’s conspiracies and believes that a Jewish cabal took the US to war. He is also no doubt a keen fan of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

          He is also, undoubtedly, a colossal wanker.

          • H’mm, BS assumptions & petty name calling, how very bog standard zionist, how v boring.

          • Now hang on just there Matt.
            However wrong it sounds, to be a wanker one must have balls…
            Me believe Andrew Silvera to be a jouvenile that skipped school today looking for some name calling “fun”.

        • If you’re into 9/11 “troof” then read my article here about the meeting I went to which was a real hoot.

          It was more entertaining than the television or the circus.

    • Really?

      So the IDF are worse than people who use their children as suicide bombers?

      Answer please

      • If you visit Defence of the Child International Palestine Section website, there are plenty of examples where you’d be mistaken for thinking that the IOF use Palestinian children as nothing more than target practice & if you visit another website called Remember These Children & care to do some maths and ‘er, when was the last case of suicide bombing in Palestine anyway?

        • Why do tossers like you insist on using made up names like “IOF” and “Zionist Entity”?

        • Actually I probably wouldn’t think that because I am not a racist moron, who thinks that religiously inspired genocide against your own children can be excused because it hasn’t happened recently.

          The reason it hasn’t happened as much recently is because Hamas have lots of deadly rockets to fire at Israel. As soon as they run short, they’ll be strapping bombs to their children like before, an act that is beneath contempt, as is your defence of them

          • No offence but it is you that should be ashamed – you read that site Remember The Children – you did the maths – you know who is the biggest child killer by an 11/1 ratio since 2000 & you still defend the criminal, how low can you go?

            • How about blaming the Palestinians who fire rockets from school playgrounds and hide behind the children? Who is it that puts their children in bomb shelters when the rockets fly, and who is it that pushes their children into the danger zone?

              Who is it that celebrates civilian death, and who is it that expresses regret at every civilian death, investigates incidents and punishes those who are guilty of negligence or worse?

              Your moral inversion won’t wash.

              • Talking to yourself again? You can’t blame ppl for defending themselves & Gaza is a small place where more than 1/2 the population are children but who would use white phosphorous weaponry on such a densely populated area? War Crims R Us?

                • Oh that’s rich. “You can’t blame ppl for defending themselves”. But that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

                  • Me no think u understand – I agree with Jenny Tongue – it was a War Crime & as far as I’m concerned that goes for the whole of Operation Cast Lead, completely unnecessary, wholesale slaughter of innocents.

                    • You are probably thinking of the UN special mission, headed by the South African Justice Richard Goldstone that produced a controversial report accusing both Palestinian militants and Israeli Defense Forces of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, and recommended bringing those responsible to justice.

                      Perhaps you are not aware that in 2011, Goldstone wrote that he no longer believed that Israel intentionally targeted civilians in Gaza

                • If the Palestinians stopped attacking Israel, they would not face any action.

                  Deny that if you can.

                • Stop trying to deflect from Islamist barbarity in Gaza towards its own people. Stop trying to ignore the fact that while Fathi Hamad and his oppos were encouraging the elderly, women and children to be human shields, Hamad himself and the Hamas leadership that hadn’t scuttled away were hiding under the Shifa Hospital because they knew that the IDF would never shell it.

                  Google “Fathi Hamad human shields”

                  And have you ever, in your previous life as a spreader of poison perhaps, heard of the very apposite Arab proverb which applies whenever a Palestinian bleats about shelling Israel in “self-defence”

                  “He strikes me and weeps and then he runs before me weeping and saying that I struck him” – ضربني وبكى وسبقني واشتكى Darabni Wabaka, Saba’ni Wishtaka” ?

                  You never heard of it? You amaze me!

            • I do not defend any criminals, for there is no crime.

              The Israelis are forced to act in their own defence.

              If Hamas and the other scum ceased committing acts of agression against Israeli civilians, then there would be peace in the ME.

              If the IDF ceased operations, the bloodshed would intensify until every Jew was dead.

              That is a simple fact that racists and their apologists cannot deny.

              Pratting about with vain defences and prattling about ratios is the act of a moron.

              The Palestinians are the agressors and the israelis act defensively, and that is the fact

                • Cos you say so? Examine your heart. Set aside your prejudices and examine your heart. I don’t expect you to admit it here in public, but you know (deep down) that what Doug has said is true.

                    • And so, it seems, should you, particularly in the light of the Jew hatred what Hamas teaches in kindergartens, summer camps, on children’s TV. Bringing up children to hate people they have never met enough to want to kill them and to believe that death is glorious in the service of doing that is an egregious infringement of their human rights, Silvera, and yet you can’t even bring yourself to think that, let alone say it, moral bankrupt and coward that you are.

                    • Oh I got a heart alright, it just went very cold following the siege on Gaza and losing count of the ways & means of Israeli persecution and killing of Palestinians which amounts to a complete disregard for humanity. I wont be happy now until that murderous regime is completely dismantled. Gordon Brown might like to think of it as an achievement, I just see it as one long horror story or an experiment that went wrong & needs to be corrected. & I think while the global economy collapses that day draws ever closer, think we best get over it & move on & maybe why I feel it imperative that the world deals with the issue of Israel’s nukes asap

            • Every time Andrew speaks I notice the Guardian’s lips moving ever so slightly. However, my favorite part of the act is when Andrew keeps going while the Guardian drinks an entire glass of water right in front of the audience! Applause, applause !

            • Hi Andrew,

              Have you any more crocadile tears left for the children of Gaza?

              If so you might like to shed a few for Hadeel Haddad who has been murdered by Hamas terrorists who are not only evil, they are incompetent.

        • Make up your mind Andy Pandy?
          a minute ago you said the IOF are the worst type of terorists and now your saying the IDF are.
          Which one is it?

        • Suicide bombings have been few and far between since the security fence was put in place.

          However, two Palestinians butchered the Fogel family in Itamar in March 2011. As well as the parents, they killed Yoav, age 11, Elad, age 4, and three months old Hadas.

          Pal terror groups praised the act, and the relaitives of the killers called them “heroic”.

          Now, who are the subhuman child-murdering bastards? Couldn’t possibly becuddly brown Muslims could it?

            • But, again, you are a rank hypocrite bereft of morality to ignore the suffering perpetrated by Palestinian Islamists from Hamas/Fatah! The death of any child is to be much regretted, but to deliberately put them in danger is unconscionable and inhuman. Once more, look at the Fathi Hamad video. What sort of a human being is actually proud of saying such things? What mad sort of human beings excuse him for putting lives in danger?

              Don’t you realise how ridiculous you come across when you condemn Israel for its allegedly deliberate crimes whilst ignoring the routine culture of inhumanity and death-dealing by Hamas towards its own people as well as to Israel/Jews?

              • No offence like but as far as I an concerned Israel has condemned itself – again, I agree with Jenny Tongue, this time when she said, ‘it wont continue in its present state,’ the way I see it, the world is truly f**cked if it does.

                • Passive-aggressive (you do, after all, mean to offend) and cognitively skewed and distorted, Andrew, if you take anything Jenny Tonge says as truth. We all seek out things to support our self-serving bias, but only the strange, weird and cognitively challenged types, like Israel- Jew/haters, troofers and other tin foil hatters like you take it to such inordinate lengths.

                  And, to use your oh-so-elegant turn of phrase, the world would be truly f*cked if Israel did not continue to succeed. But you know that, deep inside, but dare not admit it to yourself, because to do so would cause you almost unbearable distress. Therefore you waste so much of your special energy and superior intellect on trying to convince us and those who drop in of the opposite. You protest far too much!

                  And the more you try the more spectacular are your failures.

            • “…do the maths.”
              What are maths? (I mean other than the Guardian proving it can make complex sounds without one noticing its lips moving.)

        • Andrew, re “Defence of the Child International Palestine Section website” give us a link. I want to see exactly how these people think they are “defending” the rights of Palestinian children when their schools, TV programmes, governments teach them that the apotheosis of their existence is to die whilst killing Jews.

          And as for target practice, what do you make of this? Is this what Hamas means by “defending” children?

          and

          And finally another example of the the lack of respect shown towards the people of Gaza by Hamas

          “..The following is the description in the official Palestinian Authority daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida:

          “The Abd Rabbo family kept quiet while Hamas fighters turned their farm in the Gaza strip into a fortress. Right now they are waiting for the aid promised by the [Hamas] movement after Israel bombed the farm and turned it into ruins…

          “The hill on which the Abd Rabbo family lives overlooks the Israeli town of Sderot which turned it into an ideal military position for the Palestinian fighters, from which they have launched hundreds of rockets into southern Israel during the last few years. Several of the Abd Rabbo family members described how the fighters dug tunnels under their houses, stored arms in the fields and launched rockets from the yard of their farm during the nights.

          “The Abd Rabbo family members emphasize that they are not [Hamas] activists and that they are still loyal to the Fatah movement, but that they were unable to prevent the armed squads from entering their neighborhood at night. One family member, Hadi (age 22) said: ‘You can’t say anything to the resistance [Hamas], or they will accuse you of collaborating [with Israel] and shoot you in the legs.'”
          [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Jan. 27, 2009]

      • Ah, more evidence that Wiki is not the full picture – think I must have left [there website was far too complicated for me to work with] before Jenny got there…

        • Andrew yes Wiki should always be double-checked, that is why I asked you if you were/are the Senior Editor UK.

          I note that you write you left there because “website was far too complicated for me to work with”
          So you had no problems with their reprehensible policies or that they posted a video by David Duke?

          • I was invited at the very beginning to be involved but told them straight off I couldn’t work with their website – I have no idea of their policies or postings – & haven’t been back since, why they’ve kept my name on it I do not know.

            • Oh dear me, Andrew you have problems with IT don’t you.

              From the BBC News website a report dated Wed. 14th January 2009, and with the title ‘Gaza crisis spills onto the web’;

              “Andrew Silvera, who is active on several pro-Palestinian groups on Facebook, was one of those targeted. He said that his account was hacked after he responded to a Facebook request from another user, inviting him to be an administrator of a similar group.

              “As soon as I clicked it I realized there was something wrong with the link. It wasn’t like a normal Facebook group.

              “As soon as I pressed it, that was it, my account just vanished,” he said. “They kidnapped my account.”

              Mr Silvera tried to contact Facebook about his account, but told BBC News that he had as yet received no reply.”

              Perhaps you should consider going back to using a quill pen and green ink.

            • So it was the website, rather than the hate-filled content that was a deciding factor? What a strange “person” you are.

              (I’ll bet you got the Order of the Boot)

        • Well that’s a lame excuse, Andrew Silvera. I don’t believe it for a minute. Perhaps you were lousy at your job?

      • Well, that explains a lot.

        Silvera’s is obviously at a loose end and has a pressing need to make a fool of himself.

  2. Interesting that you think the public have a right to know all the details of the story. Sarsak himself doesn’t know all the details. All the details would include the evidence against him. Some Israeli judges say this or that….hmm

      • Jeff – this is the usual procedure in “closed” proceedings involving secret intelligence – procedure that is used widely in the UK and other countries as it is in Israel. The judges (who are fully security cleared) get to see secret or closed evidence that is kept from the accused, as it would potentially reveal to him the source of that evidence, which could endanger future intelligence gathering exercise or even the lives of informers.

        The accused is allocated a special advocate, who is also fully security cleared) who also gets to see the secret evidence and puts his case in the closed proceedings. That way, the interests of justice are preserved (both parties are fully represented) and all the evidence can be considered while the vital interests of the state in protecting its intelligence sources are not compromised.

        Neither you, I nor “realzionist” (the most misleading avatar ever) know what that evidence against Sarsak is (and we may never know). The Israeli Supreme Court has proved itself time and time again to be free of political interference and entirely independent of the Israeli political establishment, and while everyone makes mistakes, their judgment is unequivocal. If they conclude the evidence is stongly that he is an active explosive expert in the PIJ, I believe them.

        • “If they [the court] conclude the evidence is stongly that he is an active explosive expert in the PIJ, I believe them.”
          GoonerEll, So do I, and thank you for posting that informative explanation.

    • Administrative detention is a practice used worldwide. Do all Gitmo inmates get to know the case against them?
      Even the EU does so. Ask Abu Quatada.

      • Administrative detention is a violation of human rights. Israel should put a definite end to this shameful practice. Either Israeli military judges charge Palestinian detainees with something, or they free them. This is what democracies do. Democracies do not detain people without charging them.

        • Tell that to the EU, the US, and just about every other democratic country in the world.
          Until they surcease, I don’t see why Israel has to, or should.

          • Yup, that’s why we need to Investigate 911, Israeli Security firms & press charges for War Crimes against the like of George Bush, Blair etc etc – the world is on a major downward spiral into further wars until we do imho

            • Well off you toddle then sweet-cheeks.

              If I’m not there by the time you are ready to begin, then start without me

            • I think the best course of action will be to get you back on your Meds. ASAP.
              Perhaps there’s a nice, anti-Semitic asylum David Duke could provide you, where you’ll be able to rant about “Ziocrimes”, and “Zio-9/11”, “Zio-Bush”, “Zio-Blair”, and probably, since Tonge left the PalTelegraph, “Zio-Tonge”.

        • “This is what democracies do. Democracies do not detain people without charging them.”

          They do under extreme circumstances.

          I was going to say, “Tell that to Hamas”, but Hamas tends to kill before it charges people

        • I agree, Benyamin. Administrative detention is very distasteful. But tell us, o wise one, how else does a state which has intelligence, secretly obtained, which indicates that a person is a direct threat to its citizens or security, to respond, without compromising that intelligence?

          Sit back, wait for the person to commit their atrocity and arrest them afterwards? Publish the secret intelligence in open court, thereby putting agents/informers at risk of their lives and weakening the state’s chances of detecting future threats?

          Administrative detention – when carefully moderated by an independent judiciary, as it is in Israel – is I am afraid one of the necessary evils that exists in a violent and unhappy world.

  3. Good one, Hadar!

    The Guardian’s motto : ‘Ventriloquism for Dummies’.
    We tell you what to say and when to think.

    It can be summed up by the computer acronym: GIGO ( garbage in – garbage out ).

  4. Hadar, You’ve done a great job of beginning to expose the full story behind the circumstances of Palestinian football poster boy Mahmoud Sarsak being kept detained.

    However, I think CiFWatch readers should have the chance to read the full circumstances and the reasoning of the Israeli judges:


    On July 22, 2009, the appellant Mahmoud Sarsak [3], a Palestinian from Gaza, went to the Erez border crossing, after having applied for a permit to exit the Gaza Strip and enter the West Bank in order to take part in a training session of the Palestinian national football team. At the crossing, Sarsak was detained and interrogated by the Israeli Security Agency (ISA). A month later, on August 23, 2009, while Mr. Sarsak was still being detained for investigation, an order for his detention under the Unlawful Combatants Law was issued on the basis of intelligence gathering. The intelligence data was supported by information elicited during Sarsak’s investigation, which led the security agents to believe that he was an unlawful combatant. Sarsak was brought before a district court judge when the order was first issued and was subsequently brought before a judge every six months thereafter, in accordance with the judicial review requirements of article 5(c) of the Law. In addition, every 1-2 months, the Israeli Security Agency reexamined the threat that would emanate from Sarsak’s release.

    The information provided by the ISA suggests that the detainee was an active member in the military wing of the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine (PIJM), a designated terror organization, and that he had been involved in terror activity against Israel. According to the information provided to the court, Sarsak served as the assistant to the head of the Rafiah branch of the Islamic Jihad organization and had expertise in explosives and weapons manufacturing.

    Until now, Sarsak has undergone five periodical judicial reviews before the district court in order to examine the state of his administrative detention. In addition, the court’s decisions to approve each extension of the detention were upheld by the Supreme Court. [4]

    Following the last judicial review (on August 18, 2011) by Judge Oded Mudrik of the Tel Aviv District Court to approve the extension of Sarsak’s detention for an additional six months, Sarsak appealed to the Supreme Court. His main claim was that much time had elapsed since he was connected to the PIJM and its activities. The appellant also claimed that as of 2007 (much before his detention), he had irrevocably severed his ties with the PIJM and had not taken part in any of the organization’s activities since. Instead, he had chosen to attend university and play professional football. The appellant asserted that the significant period of time that has passed since he ended his connection with the PIJM should serve to negate the risk he once posed to Israel.

    In its response, the State claimed that the Supreme Court should uphold the district court’s decision and referred the Supreme Court to current intelligence information that indicates that the appellant continued to maintain ties with the PIJM and its military activity even from within the detention facility. Moreover, the assessment of ISA’s experts is that the combination of the appellant’s high motivation and expertise in manufacturing and training others in the use of explosive weapons raises the probability that if released, Sarsak would be reintegrated into the PJIM in Gaza promptly and would endanger the security of the State. It was further claimed that due to his abilities and level of motivation, even if Sarsak had, in fact, severed connections with the PIJM, the danger he poses would not be diminished.

    On October 4, 2011, the Supreme Court published its decision to reject Sarsak’s appeal.

    The Decision

    Justice Neal Hendel emphasized the importance of fair and efficient judicial review for the protection of basic values such as liberty. Article 5(c) of the Law sets two conditions that frame the court’s discretion as part of such judicial review proceedings:

    That the release would not endanger state security. According to Justice Hendel, this condition is preventative in nature and not punitive.

    Whether special circumstances justify the release of the detained unlawful combatant, despite the danger he poses to state security. Justice Hendel held that the time that passed from the start of the detention constitutes a relevant consideration in this regard.

    Justice Hendel emphasized the fact that unlawful combatants are being detained without having gone through criminal proceedings and, therefore, the longer their detention, the stricter judicial scrutiny should be. Nevertheless, the fact of a long period of detention cannot, by itself, justify release of an unlawful combatant. Even after a lengthy period of detention, it is possible that release of the unlawful combatant would endanger the security of the state to such a degree that it would justify extension of the period of detention. Such a possibility should be measured according to current available information about the detainee’s ties with the terror organization, the severity of his actions prior to his detention, his abilities and training, his rank in the organization prior to his detention, etc. In addition, the situation in the field must be monitored from time to time in order to evaluate the level of danger the individual still poses to the security of the state.

    Justice Hendel held that after evaluation of all the relevant information, including classified information presented to him ex parte, the specific danger posed by Sarsak justifies extension of his detention. Balancing between the appellant’s right to liberty and the necessity to detain him further, Justice Hendel saw a clear advantage to keeping him in detention.

    So the poster boy is an Islamic Jihad explosives expert… And the circumstances of his detention and the hearings are exactly the same as the UK and the US use with terrorist suspects presently resident in places like Belmarsh Prison and Guantanamo Bay.

    Unfortunately, if you do a web search on “Mahmoud Sarsak” or Palestinian footballer on hunger strike”, you will find literally hundreds of sites all recycling the myths about Sarsak being the victim of a vicious Israeli plan to destroy Palestinian football, tear him from the arms of his mum and dad, or at best of the IDF’s evil habit of imprisoning innocent Palestinians without trial for no apparent reason, using entirely spurious charges about “unlawful combatants”.

    It’s only through your links that I found a link which brought me to the full story I’ve quoted above. And you are unlikely to find a single link with an ordinary Google search which will bring you to the Israel side of the story.

    • “And you are unlikely to find a single link with an ordinary Google search which will bring you to the Israel side of the story”

      Yep, I did a search for him yesterday and found 10 pages of Arab propaganda.

  5. CiF Watch must be doing something right,now that we are getting these cretins that you would normally find posting in that stinking rag the Guardian………..

  6. I really think you lot should see & hear Richard Falk’s recent talk: http://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/assessing-the-israel-palestine-conflict-on-u-s-s-liberty-day/ Public opinion has moved on from seeing Israel as merely defending itself. Most ppl I’m sure would see Israel’s nukes as a threat to any peace prospects, well at least, these ppl do: ell the UN “Stop Nuclear Israel”. Together we can do it: http://www.stopnuclearisrael.org

    • Sheesh. If you base your view of “public opinion” on Falk and some crackpot organisation nobody’s ever heard of, you are seriously on the wrong track.

        • How many “troofer” websites do you subscribe to, Andrew?

          Do you believe in any other conspiracy theories, you know like the Protocols or the other fairy stories about alleged Jewish influence?

          I’m genuinely interested to know.

        • Folks, Andrew Silvera has declared himself as a supporter of Robert Falk, Jenny Tonge and a believer in 9/11 conspiracy theories. Let us not waste any more time or energy attempting to engage him in debate. He is clearly deranged.

          • Deranged, me – wtf is Robert Falk? & the only conspiracy regs 911 is the official msm version which is coming apart at the seams – me dunno what planet u lot live but no-one on the ground round here thinks anything other than INSIDE JOB – LYING MURDERING THIEVES = POLITICIANS & MEDIA THAT PROP UP THE LIE. Anyway, thought this a good read: http://www.takeourworldback.com/itwasntmuslims.htm