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Richard Millett: Save the children…except when they’re Israeli.


Cross posted by Richard Millett

Kerry Smith (Save The Children), Lord Warner, Aimee Shalan (Medical Aid for Palestinians) last night.

I was back at Parliament last night for the launch of a joint report by Save The Children and Medical Aid for Palestinians called Falling Behind – The Effect Of The Blockade On Child Health in Gaza.

The same day a report was released called Children in Military Custody. This may explain why there were only 20 people at my meeting.

It must have been a good day to release bad news about Israel. With politicians, NGOs and charities totally impotent to stop massacres in Syria and starvation and disease in Africa they got back to doing what they do best; delegitimising Israel.

I haven’t had a chance to read Children in Military Custody except to note that it starts off by stating:

“We have no reason to differ from the view of Her Majesty’s Government and the international community that these settlements are illegal.”

This despite Article 6 of the British Mandate which called for “close settlement by Jews on the land”. So when did those “settlements” suddenly become “illegal”?

Anyone?

Children in Military Custody also relies heavily on a recent report on exactlythe same subject matter by Defence for Children International – Palestine Section called Bound, Blindfolded & Convicted: Children held in military detention.

How many reports on exactly the same subject do we need? Obviously there is no austerity in some NGOs and government departments (Children in Military Custody was funded by the UK’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office)

The main problem with Bound, Blindfolded & Convicted is that all the testimony was taken anonymously.

Similarly, Children in Military Custody adopted the ‘Chatham House principle’ of not attributing quotes to individuals, again making it impossible to test the evidence.

Meanwhile, the Israeli Embassy in London responded to Children in Military Custody by noting that Palestinians under the age of 18 were encouraged by school textbooks and television programmes to glorify terrorism. As a result they were often involved in lethal acts which presented the Israeli authorities with serious challenges.

But the Embassy said the Israeli government intends to study the recommendations “as part of its ongoing efforts to find the most appropriate balance between preventing violence and treating perpetrators with humanity”.

As for Falling Behind – The Effect Of The Blockade On Child Health in GazaKerry Smith (Humanitarian Advocacy Adviser, Save The Children) and Aimee Shalan (Director of Advocacy and Communications, Medical Aid for Palestinians) solely blamed Israel’s blockade for the apparent swathe of malnutrition and disease sweeping the children of Gaza caused by, inter alia, lack of medicines and there being (literally) no safe drinking water in Gaza.

I asked how this could be the case if the average age longevity in Gaza is better than parts of Britain, specifically Glasgow (in Gaza average life expectancy is 74.16 years).

Labour’s Lord Warner, who was chairing, explained that it was only since Israel’s blockade that there had been a rapid deterioration in child health in Gaza, therefore only in 10 to 15 years time will we truly see how far average life expectancy in Gaza has dropped as a result of the blockade.

I then asked how it was that there could be such a shortage of medicines considering the existence of the likes of Save The Children and UNRWA. Why would Israel block these medicines?

This time the blame was with Israel’s bureaucracy which meant that much of the medicine arrived out of date. Oh, and Israel kept only one crossing open (Kerem Shalom). Someone from the audience shouted that it was “all intentional”.

I also asked whether Egypt should take any  responsibility for Gaza, but was told that Egypt’s border with Gaza is closed at the request of Israel.

Hamas wasn’t mentioned once, except for when Lord Warner said that he didn’t believe it was full of terrorists.

Kerry Smith and Aimee Shalan then called for Israel to lift its blockade to enable free movement in and out of Gaza.

Should Israel heed this call it wouldn’t be long before it was burying many of its children blown up in Hamas and Islamic Jihad suicide bombings.

So just to recap Save The Children, United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), Hamas, Amnesty, War on Want, Egypt etc. have no responsibility whatsoever for Gaza.

All responsibility lies totally with Israel who should immediately open itself up to the risk of Palestinian suicide bombers.

But, then again, you knew that didn’t you…

96 replies »

  1. Another question to be asked is about Hamas absconding with the aid that is supposed to go those children.

    • “How many reports on exactly the same subject do we need?”

      There will be reports published on this issue as long as the Governement of Israel has not amended its practices in the treatment of Palestinian children.

      Shackling 12-year-old children is apalling, and so is interrogating them without the presence of their parents or of an attorney.

        • Doug, can you give us concrete examples of children who’ve been “strapped with explosives and used as walking bombs”?

          Evidence please!

          • Coming up:

            I’m surprised that even such a closed-minded one as you hasn’t heard of Husam Abdo, the 15 year old apprehended at Hawara Crossing in the West Bank.

            http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/abdo.htm

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/1457719/16-year-olds-suicide-bomb-attempt-thwarted.html

            http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-608523.html
            (I bet that the family is even more mad at useful idiots like you, Nat)

            Life is cheap to his terrorist handlers to whom gory death scores propaganda points.

            • You spoke of childREN. Here you only give us one case, dating back to 2004.

              Other evidence please?

              • From Wiki:

                “According to the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers “2004 Global Report on the Use of Child Soldiers”, there were at least nine documented suicide attacks involving Palestinian minors between October 2000 and March 2004[3] In 2004, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported that “there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups,” also noting that this remains a small fraction of the problem in other conflict zones such as Africa, where there are an estimated 20,000 children involved in active combat roles in the Sudan alone.[4] Human Rights Watch also reported that “there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority (PA) recruited or used child soldiers.”[5]

                According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, Palestinian military folk have used children as “messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians.” Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have all been implicated in involving children in this way, see Convention on the Rights of the Child. The issue was first brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.

                Human rights organizations such as Amnesty International has strongly and repeatedly condemned violence against civilians:

                Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army.[7]

                Despite the harsh condemnations and internal controversy, Palestinian militant groups such as Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades and Islamic Jihad, have used children as militants and suicide bombers.”

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

          • Can I give you examples – Yes, as you well know!

            Am I going to – No, because you never answer a question that is put to you

    • “The main problem with Bound, Blindfolded & Convicted is that all the testimony was taken anonymously.”

      A basic principle is that children’s identities must be protected when reporting ill-treatment or torture. Please read the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC).

      • You don’t need to look at the CRC to know that it is also a breach of children’s human rights to educate them to a life of hatred, to encourage them to believe that deadly violence against your neighbour is a worthy end, especially if it leads to your death.

        Of course it is horrible that any child is detained at all, let alone interrogated or shackled and I am sure there are examples of abuse, and these are absolutely to be condemned. In fact it is disgusting to most people’s sensitivities, and I am absolutely 100% certain that Israel would far rather not do it at all, ever, whatever the safeguards.

        Unfortunately, when children are used as pawns in the ruling Palestinian juntas’ appalling strategies against Israel, she has to do something to defend herself.

        What would you recommend, Nat?

        • A series of reports published by international and Israeli NGOs, and now British Parliamentarians, report that Palestinian children detained by Israel are routinely ill-treated.

          Gooner, what are you waiting to encourage your Governement to take action against those who ill-treat children?

          • Are these the same children who are often brainwashed into being used as suicide bombers.

            Where is your outrage about that?

          • Nat – I am British, so anything I have to say to the Israeli government is unlikely to be treated with any great weight.

            • Then you should be proud to see that your Government steps up for children and asks the Governement of Israel to put an end to reported ill-treatment of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military personnel.

          • When are you going to take action rather than mouth off here against those Islamists who promote these:

            http://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=844&doc_id=6857

            And the conversation:

            Host: “You described Shahada (Martydrdom) as something beautiful. Do you think it is beautiful?”
            Walla, age 11: “Shahada (Martyrdom) is a very, very beautiful thing. Everyone yearns for Shahada. What could be sweeter than going to paradise?”
            Host: “What is better, peace and full rights for the Palestinian people, or Shahada?”
            Walla: “Shahada. I will achieve my rights after becoming a Shahid (Martyr).”
            Host: “OK, Yussra, would you agree with that?”
            Yussra, age 11: “Of course; Shahada is sweet. We don’t want this world, we want the Afterlife. We benefit not from this life, but from the Afterlife.”
            Host: “Do you actually love death? ”
            Yussra: “Death is not Shahada.”
            Host: “No, I mean the absence after death. ”
            Yussra: “No child loves death. The children of Palestine adopted the concept that Shahada is very good. Every Palestinian child, say someone aged 12, says: O Lord, I would like to become a Shahid.”
            Host: “We’ve got a call, Sabrine from Ramallah.”
            Sabrine (on telephone): “Ayyat al-Akhras was 17 when she blew herself up –
            Host: “Sabrine, are you for it or against it?”
            Sabrine (on telephone): “Of course I support blowing up, it is our right.”

            Host: “Sabrine, now, is it natural that Ayyat al-Akhras blows herself up?”

            Now, every living thing is geared towards life and protecting its offspring. Why do you think that these animals are different, and what, given that these young children will be the future citizens of whatever mess they might make in the region, will be their legacy to them? Take your time…

            Sabrine (on telephone): “Of course it’s natural.”

            • Hairshort, can you please explain how feet-shackling Palestinian children as young as 12-year-old in a military court inside a military prison can help enhance Israel’s security?

              • Why not stick to the discussion in hand, Nat? Do you agree that this is child abuse of the worst sort, routinely perpetrated against Palestinian children? Where is your voice against this?

                Hussam Abdo was a special educational needs boy who was groomed by Islamist terrorists. And, given what I reproduce further down the page, the deliberate and abusive grooming of the next generation to perpetrate terror and die in the attempt is habitual and evidence of deep rooted sickness at a societal level.

                What sort of a society do you think the Palestinians will be left with, Nat, if they routinely teach their children to hate and want to die, which is dysfunctional?

                See also here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm

                It matters little, for the purposes of my points, whether they complete or not. What does matter is that they are being brainwashed into wanting to do it. And you are, literally, dumb-struck about that instead resorting to inconsequentialities and attempts to deflect from your own half-baked and ill thought out arguments.

                You are a contrarian who, if there wasn’t anyone to argue with here, would have an argument with himself

                And still lose

                • Actually, HairShit, it is you that is changing the subject away from the mistreatment of children…

          • “Gooner, what are you waiting to encourage your Governement to take action against those who ill-treat children?”

            Perhaps a more honest and even-handed assessment than from the organizations you refer to, i.e., kangaroo courts that have demonstrated their own bias time and time again. Add to that a consideration of the indoctrination of hate and encouragement toward violence used on these kids and a willingness to put the leadership responsible for this unforgivable form of child abuse in the dock.

            Israelis would prefer not to have to incarcerate children, or anyone else for that matter, but when children commit acts of violence something needs to be done.

    • Doug, can you please let us know why Israeli soldiers force Palestinian children as young as 12 year old to wear feet shackles even inside military court?

      Can you please explain how having 12-year-old little boys wear feet shackles can help enhance Israel’s security?

      Why do you keep avoiding this question?

      Are you embarrased?

    • “British arrogance” based on statements by a couple of individuals?

      it’s you who’s the bigot here, matey.

      • “ ‘British arrogance’ based on statements by a couple of individuals?”
        Q: How many does it take?
        “…it’s you who’s the bigot here, matey.”

        I disagree, but if you feel a certain sting, try some ointment or grow a thicker skin.

        People in Britain routinely call Israelis ‘child murderers,’ openly discuss doing away with the country altogether, but a little chiding about ‘British arrogance’ is just going too far, eh?

        Arrogance is a universal trait. British arrogance is just a flavor. I hope you’re not against diversity! : )

        • How would you react if someone said Jews should get some ointment or a thicker skin when it comes to antisemitism?

          Obviously that would be racist and in the same way, so is your comment. Stop being a bigot.

          Moderators, take note.

          • “How would you react if someone said Jews should get some ointment or a thicker skin when it comes to antisemitism?”

            It would depend on whether or not they were joking, possibly indicated by a smiley face, e.g., : ) , at the end of a comment. It might also depend on whether the person making the comment were a joke him/ herself.

            I don’t guide my dealings with, or feelings for people based on their backgrounds, but rather as individuals. In other words, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about someone’s “race,” ethnic identity or national background. I have, and have had close friends from more backgrounds than you could even possibly imagine and I love them all.

            And I actually rather enjoy the British. I’m certainly no bigot, and I can assure you that no one who knows me would ever think I was.
            People telling Jews they should have a thicker skin when it comes to anti-Semitism is a much more common phenomenon than I think you would ever be willing to admit no less notice.

            Also, being about as secular as one can be, rarely recognized as being jewish, and living as a minority all my life, I can tell you I’ve been in the presence of more people more than willing to express their absolute ignorance about Jews (negatively) within a given month than most Brits would probably hear about themselves in their entire lives. So please don’t lecture me about tolerance or sensitivity. From where I sit, you just don’t have the creds.

            • Oh, and Sanity, I forgot to mention one thing: We Jews love ointment! Did you know that? : )

            • Some of my best friends are Jews / Black / Gays / etc.!!!!

              Could this bigot fit the racist stereotype more perfectly?! Moderators, I would suggest that you ban him from commenting.

              • Your reading and lazy analysis of my comments is selective and revealing…about you. Your conclusion about them is insane. It’s indicative of the kind of immature mind that would, for example, indulge itself in anti-Israel heckling for sport. It’s the type of reply one would expect to hear in a schoolyard during recess.

        • People in Britain routinely call Israelis ‘child murderers,’ openly discuss doing away with the country altogether

          Yes, in the same sense that “people in Israel routinely call for Palestinians to be removed from Israel and black people likewise.”

          What an utterly ignorant comment.

  2. “This despite Article 6 of the British Mandate which called for ‘close settlement by Jews on the land’. So when did those “settlements” suddenly become ‘illegal’?”
    It does strike one as being a bit capricious, no?

    • “This despite Article 6 of the British Mandate which called for close settlement by Jews on the land.”

      Any Israeli settlement built inside Israel is legal. However any Israeli settlement built outside Israel, in the occupied Palestinian territory, contravenes international law.

      • “Any Israeli settlement built inside Israel is legal. However any Israeli settlement built outside Israel, in the occupied Palestinian territory, contravenes international law.”
        Where are the borders and what agreement set them?

      • You are wrong wrong wrong.

        The borders of Israel as envisioned by the document produced at the San Remo conference included all the territory that is known today as “occupied”. In 1948 the Arabs invaded and occupied the territory in Judea and Samaria, renamed it “the West Bank” in order to remove any reference to Israel and Jews; the Egyptians invaded and captured Gaza and the Syrians invaded and took the Golan Heights. All these territories were re-captured back by Israel in 1967.

        Now tell me, why are the Arab occupations of the West Bank, Gaza and Golan considered kosher whereas the Israeli liberation of said territory is not?

  3. Well done Richard for taking the trouble to attend and report on this dreary Isra-hate fest and its 20 revellers.

    The photo is brilliant. Let us take warning from the arrogant look of bored decrepitude on Warner’s face and the plethora of empty chairs round this FCO-and-hence-taxpayer-funded triumvirate. Any proposed world tour should be cancelled now for lack of interest and Warner’s expenses should be investigated immediately.

  4. Oh, and Warner has a track-record of Isra-hate this month alone, as exemplified by some of his tabled Parliamentary questions below, the last one being the clinching low:

    Lord Warner: To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they would regard any extensions of European Union Agreements on Conformity Assessment and Acceptance of Industrial Products as an upgrading of relations between Israel and the European Union; and, if so, whether they will take steps to block any such extensions.
    Written Answers — House of Lords: EU: Agreements on Conformity Assessment and Acceptance (11 June 2012)
    Lord Warner: To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Howell of Guildford on 23 April (WA 319-20), whether they regard the lack of progress in implementing a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict as grounds for opposing any extension of Agreements on Conformity Assessment and Acceptance of Industrial Products to open European Union markets to Israeli goods.
    Written Answers — House of Lords: EU: Agreements on Conformity Assessment and Acceptance (11 June 2012)
    Lord Warner: To ask Her Majesty’s Government what industrial products are currently allowed to be imported into the United Kingdom from Israel under European Union Agreements on Conformity Assessment and Acceptance of Industrial Products (ACAAs); whether they have discussed with European Union partners any extensions of ACAAs to include pharmaceutical products or other goods; and whether they will review…
    Written Answers — House of Lords: Israel (11 June 2012)
    Lord Warner: To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Baroness Northover on 30 April (WA 401), whether the financing agreement requires Israel to spend money provided by the European Union without discrimination towards Arab Israelis or Palestinians in the Occupied Territories; and whether they have discussed any evidence of failure to avoid discrimination with the Government of…
    Written Answers — House of Lords: Israel (11 June 2012)
    Lord Warner: To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Henley on 28 March (WA 271), whether they will amend the immigration rules to prevent entry to the United Kingdom of Israeli citizens who have illegally settled on land in Occupied Palestinian Territories and any officials or Ministers who have allowed or encouraged such settlements.

  5. Gaza is a despotic terror entity whereas Israel is a Western democracy.
    The Gaza terrorists deliberately target Israeli civilians and hide behind Arab civilians, a double war crime. Israel has both a legal right and a moral duty to defend its population against aggression.
    Hamas is probably like, dont worry, Gerald Kaufman will defend our child abuse.

    • Ed, the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict in 2009, also known as the Goldstone Report, concluded that both the Israel Defense Forces and the Palestinian militants may have committed war crimes.

        • The conclusions of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict in 2009 still stand.

          Judge Goldstone later said that he did not believe that Tsahal had intentionally targeted civilians; however the other accusations of war crimes still stand.

          The two other judges sitting in the Fact Finding Mission said that the report was accurate and said that judge Goldstone had been submitted to unbearable pressure following the publication of the report, in particular after extremists threatened to attack his grandson

      • Nat, the Goldstone Report was a farce (now I know you are either educationally deficient, or are having a laugh. My money is on the former) and even a non-legal intelligent person could have driven a coach and horses through it, not least because Goldstone knowingly left on the investigating panel a woman with stated anti-Israel bias, and failed to interview several important experts and witnesses.

        READ more!

        You are making yourself look foolish

    • The World Health Organization (WHO) considers that the blockade does prevent Palestinians in Gaza from accessing their right to health:

      “The blockade on the Gaza Strip, imposed in June 2007, has affected the functioning and development of the Palestinian health care system in a number of ways: restrictions on importation of medical supplies, equipment and spare parts; limitations on movement of patients and health staff; interruptions of power supply and impurities of water supply; insecurity; and the permit regime limiting access of Palestinians to health services, as well as of the professional development of staff.”

      http://www.emro.who.int/pse/palestine-news/5-years-gaza-blockade.html

      • To be honest, Nat, that is a fairly anodyne “condemnation” of the blockade by the WHO. It simply acknowldges the fact that healthcare in Gaza would undoubtedly be easier to access if there wasn’t a de facto state of war between the territory and Israel.

        I am sure that if the WHO had published a report on the state of healthcare in, say, Britain during WWII, they would have said very similar things.

        Of course it would be lovely if the blockade could be entirely lifted, of course it would be lovely if the people of Gaza had unrestricted access to healthcare, not to mention education free of indoctrination to hate and murder, and a wonderful future of economic, social and cultural opportunity. Unfortunately, however, we live in an imperfect world.

        In this case, Gaza is governed by a viciously anti-semitic gang of thugs who condemn its people to a life under theocratic dictatorship whilst forcing its neighbour to take unpalatable steps to protect herself and her citizens from this gang of thugs’ deadly intentions and actions.

      • Well, the WHO are lying. As you can see from the link I provided, the Israeli government and IDF ARE providing medical supplies etc.

        Interruptions of power supplies are caused by Hamas, not Israel.
        COGAT report on goods and power to Gaza

        Heavy-duty diesel for the power plant is delivered directly from Egypt according to the Palestinians decision from a few months ago; therefore, no diesel is transferred from Israel.

        Gaza official blames PA for power supply woes

        Gaza refuses to accept power supply from Israel.

        To be continued… (don’t want to put too many links in one post).

        • “Interruptions of power supplies are caused by Hamas, not Israel.”

          Interruptions of power supplies have become a staple of life in Gaza since Israel bombed Gaza’s only power plant in 2006, in violation of the prohibition on strikes aimed at civilian infrastructure.

          • Why have they not repaired it in 12 years?

            They said it would take six months?

            Wound collectors!

            • Doug, The shortage of electricity in the Gaza Strip dates back to June 2006, when the Israeli Air Force destroyed all six transformers at the GPP during an air strike.

              Israel’s imposition of a blockade on the Gaza Strip in June 2007 further tightened existing restrictions on imports. Access to spare parts, equipment and consumables required for the power plant’s operation and the electricity network were restricted, as was the amount of industrial fuel allowed entry to the Gaza Strip. Palestinians were not able to fix the power plant due to that Israeli restriction on imports of the spare parts needed to fix the plant.

              http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/4EE272272D04A3D08525771C0067F100

          • “Interruptions of power supplies have become a staple of life in Gaza since Israel bombed Gaza’s only power plant in 2006, in violation of the prohibition on strikes aimed at civilian infrastructure.”

            That’s not the reason for the current power outages Nat. Anymore red herrings?

      • Continued…
        Ditto impurities of water supplies.
        Limiting access of Palestinians to health services: they have their own hospitals; b) they are not stopped from coming to Israel, contrary to all the propaganda you read.

        99% of all UN agencies have an in-built bias against Israel. There is no point in taking your information from them. Educate yourself.

        • Ah the impurities of water supplies. These would be the water supplies that are impure because the pipes given to them by Israel to rebuild the sewage system were used by Hamas to make rocket launchers?

          No mention of this in the WHO report?

      • How typical of the humpty dumpty speak of official organisations. And how typical also of Nat to swallow this without apparent thought

  6. Nat
    Your concerns for the rights of Palestinian children are to be commended . The only problem I have with it is the nagging doubt that you have ever displayed equal concerns for all the Israeli children murdered and maimed by Palestinian terrorists especially during the second Intifada .
    I could be wrong in which case I’m sure you will be prepared to provide links to comments that you have made on Palestinian / psc blogs condemning the wanton slaughter of Israeli children . In the interests of balance so to speak .

    • Harvey:

      Don’t you have a problem with the fact that children as young as 12 are feet shackled in Israeli tribunals ?

      Don’t you have a problem with the fact that children as young as 12 are arrested at home in the middle of the night, and transferred to military bases without their parents with them?

      Don’t you have a problem with the fact that children as young as 12 are interrogated by Israeli military personnel without the presence of one of their parents or of their lawyer?

      Don’t you have a problem with the fact that children as young as 12 are asked to sign confessions in Hebrew, even though they do not speak this language?

      • I guess the answers to Harvey’s questions are that you don’t give a rat’s arse about Jewish children maimed and killed, and never have.

        • Doug, can you please explain how feet-shackling children as young as 12-year-old in a military court inside a military prison can help enhance Israel’s security?

          • Nat – I see you take the report’s authors’ word for it that all these things a) happened, and b) happen routinely. You clearly do not believe the Israeli response that a) these things do NOT happen routinely and b) when they do, they are against policy and are treated as such.

            Do these reports contain ANY criticism of the content of education and entertainment aimed at children in the PA and Gaza that leads children to take violent acts against Israel? Do these reports contain ANY criticism of the use of children as human shields by Palestinian terrorists? If not, I would suggest this is cause alone to seriously doubt their credibility.

            • Gooner, can you please explain how feet-shackling children as young as 12-year-old in a military court inside a military prison can help enhance Israel’s security?

              • Nat – I don’t know how often I have to say it. I deplore the use of restraints/interrogation etc against children. But can you please explain how Israel is supposed to maintain its security AND never detain a child when its enemies brainwash children to love martyrdom (see Hairshirt’s post above) and push them into the front line of violent acts against Israeli citizens?

          • Nat, can you please answer Harvey’s question or be big and grown up enough to admit that you don’t know the answer?

            No? Thought not…

          • Truthfully, I believe that Israel is within its rights to take any and every necessary precaution to prevent Palestinian terrorist murderers from killing its civilians.

            Israeli foot shackles are not the problem. Murderous Hamas thugs are the problem.

            The solution to the ME problem will be found when the Palestinian murderers renounce their campaign of genocide.

            Until then, the walls and the shackles will, regretfully, remain.

            Them’s the facts. Deal with it.

      • He can’t, Harvey. Note how he tries to distract because he hasn’t the information or doesn’t even care to find it out. Perhaps he lacks the skills.

      • Nat,
        I have a bigger problem with the practice of inciting children to murder, based on unrelenting indoctrination by adults, and so should you. Do you?

  7. Not mentioning Hamas is pretty preposterous.

    On another point, however:

    So when did those “settlements” suddenly become “illegal”?

    So Richard is OK with Jews moving into the West Bank with no personal ties or history to the place – but is presumably against Palestinians moving into Israel (whether they have such family ties or not)?

    And to think of all the wailing on this site about the Guardian’s alleged prejudice against Jews.

    • “No personal ties or history to the place”. There have been Jews in Judea (see the name?) and Samaria throughout the last several thousand years, apart from one period between 1948 and 1967 when they were expelled by the occupying Jordanians. The Jewish community in Hebron for example, arguably Judaism’s holiest city after Jerusalem, is among the oldest in the world, and is where an ancient Jewish community are branded in the Western media as “illegal settlers”.

      • There have been Jews in Judea (see the name?) and Samaria throughout the last several thousand years

        There have been human beings on most continents for millenia. What’s your point? You believe that Jews with no personal links to e.g. in Hebron have more of a right to move there than Palestinians to move back to where their immediate families lived for centuries?

        Your attitude is a prime indicator of … oh, what’s that word again …?

    • “So Richard is OK with Jews moving into the West Bank with no personal ties or history to the place – but is presumably against Palestinians moving into Israel (whether they have such family ties or not)?”

      Pretz, I can’t seem to find where Richard wrote that. Could you be so kind as to point it out?

  8. Nat
    You appear intent on answering my question with a repeat question .
    I merely asked you , in the interests of balance , whether you had voiced your condemnation of the abuse of the human rights of Israeli citizens culminating in the ultimate abuse ie the right to life .
    To be perfectly honest it was no more than a rhetorical question on my behalf . I had zero expectation of seeing a link in which you state your abhorrence of Palestinian terror attacks and the murder of innocent Israelis .
    I have engaged with polemicists like you for
    many a year and the one thing I have learned during that time is that worthy humanitarian beliefs stop short of Israel.
    You have no answer to my question for the simple reason you have never concerned yourself about Palestinian terrorism . You are unconcerned that hatred of Jews is taught in schools from kindergarten and are thus being abused and robbed of a normal childhood .
    So regretfully I cannot bring myself to offer an answer to your question as I have a fair idea it will be to no avail .
    You belong to one of the plethora of Palestinian organisations . They will provide you with the answers you seek . They will not be truthful but since when did that matter to you .

    • Harvey, can you please explain how feet-shackling children as young as 12-year-old in a military court inside a military prison can help enhance Israel’s security?

    • Harvey, can you please explain how arresting children as young as 12-year-old at their home, taking them away to a military post without letting the parents go with them and interogating them without the presence of their parents or a lawyer can be beneficial to security?

      Should your child be arrested, wouldn’t youw ant to go with him and demand that he be interrogated only in your presence of that or your alawyer?

      • Nat – you are getting very boring and really deeply offensive.

        Your refusal to see ANY nuance in this is indicative of your absolutist position on Israel. You know, the unwarranted blaming of one country (and let’s face it, it’s the Jews in Israel you blame) for all the ills of the region is a prime indicator of … oh, what’s that word again?

      • Nat – should your child tell you he came home from school and was taught that it’s cool to kill Jews, and that the best thing he can hope for is to die violently, would you a) give him a sweet and tell him that as a reward, you will let him help painting a mural celebrating a suicide bomber or b) think WTF am I/are my leaders doing to my child?

        • or c) hand your kid some rocks, tell him to go and throw them at some Israelis. Reassure him that if he gets arrested, you will run to the nearest UN agency or NGO and complain of child abuse.

        • “should your child tell you he came home from school and was taught that it’s cool to kill Jews”

          Gooner, I bet you’ve never met a Palestinian in your life and never been to a Palestinian school, right? Cause what you tell us are cliches pal.

          • I don’t know GoonerEll but I met thousands of Palestinians, sometimes watch their TV programmes and saw/read many of their schoolbooks.
            So what you tell us are not only cliches but lies too.
            FYI I’m not your pal at all – I’m your and your kind of haters’ enemy.

          • “..what you tell us are cliches pal.”

            Benyamin, are you attempting French here? Is “cliches pal” French for “Palestinian cliches?”
            “cliches pal” , so sophisticated.

      • Why don’t you answer Nat’s question? Why do you want small children to be shackled inside a military prison? I heard MPs tell journalists how shocked thay were to see the children wearing feet shackles like in some old movie.

        Are you embarrassed? Yes, clearly you are.

        • Benyamin,

          I don’t think that was Nat’s question. He asked what the benefit would be of the practice, not what Harvey wanted.
          Also, Nat repeated the question ad nauseam, beating a dead horse, yet never responds to queries directed at him.

          • Jeff,

            Why do you want small children to be shackled inside a military prison? I heard MPs tell journalists how shocked thay were to see the children wearing feet shackles like in some old movie.

            Are you embarrassed? Yes, clearly you are because you avoid answering the question.

            I ask it again: why do Israeli soldiers make 12-year-old kids should feet shackles in an Israeli military courts?