Independent

What does the mother of a ‘pre-Oslo’ monster look like?


The following is a photo published at The Independent on July 29th to illustrate a story about Israel’s recent decision to release 104 Palestinians prisoners – a group of Palestinians (convicted prior to the Oslo Accords) largely consisting of terrorists who murdered or attempted to murder Israeli citizens, soldiers and foreign tourists.

part 1

Here’s the Indy caption for the shot taken by Reuters photographer Ibraheem Abu Mustaf:

The mother of Palestinian Ateya Abu Moussa, who has been held prisoner by Israel for 20 years, hugs her grandson upon hearing the news that her son may soon be released.

The mother is rejoicing over the possible release of her son, a Palestinian (presumably seen in the photo she’s holding) alternately known as Abu Moussa Salam Ali Atiya who murdered an Israeli named Isaac Rotenberg in 1994.  Whilst the Indy caption doesn’t include a word about the crimes of Ateya Abu Moussa or background on his victim, fortunately Almagor Murder Victims Association provides further details:

Isaac was born to Natan and Miriam Rotenberg on 15 March 1927 in Poland. A selection was held in his city following the outbreak of the Second World War, and his family was sent to the Sobibór extermination camp. With the exception of him, his younger brother, and his sister, his entire family perished. He was taken with his brother to a labor camp. When a revolt broke out, the two succeeded in escaping the camp, but they lost track of each other in the ensuing commotion. Isaac then made his way to the forest and joined the partisans.

In April 1947, Isaac reached the Land of Israel. He joined the IDF the next year, and fought in the War of Liberation in the north, near Kibbutz Manara.

Isaac was married to Riva, and the two had two children, Tzipora and Pinhas. He worked as a plasterer, and was a founder of the city of Holon. Upon reaching retirement age, he decided to continue working a few hours per day to keep himself busy.

On 29 March 1994, during the Passover holiday, as Isaac was hunched on his knees, fixing a floor in his workplace in Petah Tikva, two of the Arab laborers [including Ateya Abu Moussa], on site attacked him and struck the back of his neck with axes. He was critically wounded, and entered a coma. Two days later, on 31 March, he died.

The murderers were caught staying in Lod with their Israeli Arab accomplices, and were sentenced to life in prison.

Isaac was 67 at the time of his death. He was survived by his wife, son, brother, and sister.

Ateya Abu Moussa murdered Rotenberg as a condition of being accepted into a terrorist organization.

Isaac Rotenberg survived a Nazi extermination camp but was murdered by a (soon to be free) loathsome terrorist spawned by the woman ‘sensitively’ depicted in a photo carefully selected by Indy editors. 

rotenberg

Isaac (Azik) Rotenberg: Date unknown

76 replies »

  1. In effectiveness here is the doings of the real monster

    By Tim Butcher in Zeitoun, Gaza 3:31PM GMT 19 Jan 2009
    “The sight of her dead four-year-old son’s blood splashed on a breeze-block wall was enough to start Zinad Samouni sobbing.
    But the 35-year-old Palestinian mother of eight then composed herself to give the most complete first hand allegation yet of atrocities committed by Israeli forces when they occupied the village of Zeitoun on the outskirts of Gaza City.
    Standing in the wreckage of her home she described the cold-blooded shooting of her 46-year-old husband, Atiyeh, and her son, Ahmed, in an incident that could form the core of a war crimes investigation against Israel.
    The United Nations commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, has already said Israel should be investigated for what happened in Zeitoun on between Jan 4 and Jan 5.
    So far dozens of bodies, mostly women, children and elderly, have been recovered, almost all from the same Samouni extended family.”

  2. Not so easy Gerald to whitewash crimes of real monster –

    Yael Stein of B’Tselem said in response, “It cannot be that in a well-managed system no person will be found guilty of the army operation that led to the killing of 21 people who were not involved in combat, and resided in a structure on the instructions of the army – even if the attack was not done purposefully,” she said.

    “The manner in which the army rids itself of responsibility in this case… again illustrates the need for an investigatory body outside of the army.”

    • “Not so easy Gerald to whitewash crimes of real monster ”
      No and I would not try. Unlike you and your sick friends who no doubt will give 104 convicted terrorists a welcome.
      Got the sweets ready to hand out already have you?

      Really your choice of ‘names’ is getting increasingly pathetic, ‘Sharon Sweety’ what tomorrow ‘Linda Lovelace’?

      • Really your choice of ‘names’ is getting increasingly pathetic, ‘Sharon Sweety’ what tomorrow ‘Linda Lovelace’?

        Great, you’ve ruined the “surprise” Gerald.

    • Yes, “Sharon Sweety,” true, you are a monster, but no one here is about to whitewash you.

    • “Yael Stein of B’Tselem said in response, “It cannot be that in a well-managed system no person will be found guilty of the army operation that led to the killing of 21 people who were not involved in combat…”

      Not involved like Sarit wasn’t involved?

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4407507,00.html

      You stand where the shit happens trying to take photos instead of getting the hell out of the area you could get shot.
      Simple.

      When shit breaks next to you the natural reaction is not to try and be a “Sha’eed” but rather duck for cover.
      This why people curl into a ball and hold they’re head between their hands. To minimise the body mass and protect the head.

      Some indoctrinated crowds do not follow these natural rules.
      Why is that?
      Brain wash?
      You tell me “Sharon”.

    • The real monster is in your head. Or to put it another way, the really most awful people on the planet are scumbags like who exploit the suffering of others in order to normalize an absurd hatred that has been proven over the years to be based on sheer stupidity.

  3. The European heirs to the worst crimes ever committed against the Jewish people prove yet again – in the Independent and in the comment above, that they are incapable of extending their ‘humanity’ to murdered Jews in the contemporary world. A culture of bigotry and malice against Jews that is so ingrained, so visceral and so normal, that their sympathies automatically align with the perpetrators whose heinous crimes are normalised, contextualised, humanised and excused by the self-styled arbiters of morality and justice – ‘progressive’ Europeans.

  4. What is wrong with you groovy Here is another report of the massacre among those reporting on the massacre are the New York Times and the Israeli Haaretz

    The Zeitoun incident refers to the Israeli military incursion, led by the Givati Brigade unit of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF),[1] into the Zeitoun district of Gaza as part of the three-week 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, also known as the Gaza War, in the Arab world as the Gaza Massacre,[2][3][4] and, in Israel, as Operation Cast Lead.
    In the Arab world, the name Zeitoun District Massacre (Arabic: مجزرة حي الزيتون‎)[5] is used to refer to any of the incidents in Zeitoun. A total of 48 residents of Zeitoun were killed, most of them women, children, and the elderly;[6] 27 homes, a mosque and a number of farms were destroyed by Israeli forces.[1]
    The New York Times, speaking of the three-week conflict in Gaza, wrote, “Israel’s attack has razed buildings and upended families in much of crowded Gaza. But few neighborhoods suffered more than Zeitoun, a district of eastern Gaza City.” A report released by United Nations Office for Humanitarian Affairs stated that the attack on the Samouni family, who were among the Zeitoun victims, was one of the “gravest incidents” in the conflict.[7] According to Haaretz, the IDF delayed rescue services from reaching some of the casualties for three days of the incident.[8]

  5. The Toronto Star July 29 page A6, Israel approves release of 104 prisoners.

    Caption of a picture Depicting the state of Palestine (no Israel) used as a Palestinian flag pole.
    The mother of Palestinian Fares Baroud, who has been held in an Israeli prison for 22 years, cries as she holds his picture after hearing news of his possible release.
    The Gulf Times issued identical picture and caption on July 28th.
    http://www.gulf-times.com/region/216/details/361007/israel-cabinet–okays-release–of-palestinians

    • That must be a post 1967 map of “Palestine” since it includes the West Bank and Gaza, previously unclaimed by the PLO.

  6. This is what you are trying to whitewash – not working is it?

    Local witnesses said that most of the family members who died had been killed instantly, while others sustained wounds and were unable to receive help in time, due to the IDF’s alleged refusal to allow paramedics access to the wounded.[7] One Palestinian doctor said that over 100 phone calls were made by residents seeking help for the injured. While two medics were sent, they were reportedly blocked by the Israelis. Israel said that it cooperated with medics but it was sometimes impossible to permit access because of the battlefield conditions.[17] Among those wounded in the Monday attack was 12-year old Ishaq Samouni, who bled for two days before he died on Wednesday.[7][17] On Wednesday, Israelis ordered a three-hour pause in hostilities to allow entry of rescue workers and humanitarian aid. Paramedics found four exhausted children beside their mothers’ corpses; the children were in the open for 48 hours with Israeli soldiers nearby. The head of Red Cross operations in the Gaza Strip said the first rescue team could only take out only the wounded, and had to leave the dead, because they only had 4 ambulances and they had limited time. Israel restricted the entry of the ambulances and medics had to walk and then carry the injured in a donkey cart back to the ambulances a mile away. On the following Thursday, the Red Cross stated that the Israelis did not fulfil its role in the care and vacating of the wounded as required by international law. The rest of the corpses were collected two weeks later, a day after the IDF disengaged.[1][7][17]

    • The media have manufactured and examined allegations that Israel committed a war crime against the Samounis without mentioning that the family are Fatah and that some of its members are still missing. They have not considered what might flow from those facts: that Hamas might have been active not only in the Samouni killings but in the exertion of force on the Samounis to accuse Israel.

  7. Here is another example of monster behavior

    According to the testimonies from the family members collected by LA Times correspondent, Israeli soldiers stormed the home of the Helw family, shooting 55-year-old Fuad Helw in front of his family and then instructing the rest of the family, 13 members, to leave the home. The family was assured by soldiers that they would not be targeted, however, as they were walking, they came under Israeli gunfire. Three family members were injured and a one-year-old was killed.[9]
    According to an account from Gaza residents delivered to B’Tselem, an air strike collapsed the home of Ad-Daya family, killing thirteen family members.[18]

    • Sharon: “Here is another example of monster behavior”

      The Jews are scary monsters! They kidnap children and use their blood for satanic rituals too! (they are, after all, in league with the devil – and you should know Sharon, European culture has taught us that for over a thousand years)

      By the way, you got anything on Syria? Hamas? Hezbollah? Iran? Saudi Arabia? or is the logic that 50 victims of the yids is worth 50,000 who due to pure good fortune, were murdered across the border where the yids couldn’t get them, and are therefore, not worthy of your progressive sympathy?

      And so it comes full circle, poor old Mr Rotenberg, murdered by terrorists in Israel after his family was obliterated by Nazis, is as valueless as 100,000 dead Syrians because Sharon can only sympathise with victims of ‘Zionist’ oppression.

      You are a pathetic fraud Sharon, not a humanitarian.

      • “By the way, you got anything on Syria? Hamas? Hezbollah? Iran? Saudi Arabia?”
        Groovy,
        “She” doesn’t even have anything on the murderers Israel is releasing which, of course, is the whole point of “her” being here. “She” is doing the whitewashing by means of deflection from the issue at hand by juxtaposition it with a legal military defense operation which resulted from acts of illegal aggression from Gaza on a sovereign country.

    • @ Sharon Sweety – have you ever noticed how B’Tselem are always around to tell the story and show pictures. Ever wondered why? Ever considered that they set up a lot of these stories and have been caught doing so a number of times? Please find a better source. B’Tselem is tainted.

  8. Alex I agree B’Tselem puts a very strong case for an independent inquiry into how IDF operates with impunity

    In response, Adv. Yael Stein, B’Tselem’s head of research, said: it is unacceptable that no one is found responsible for an action of the army that led to the killing of 21 uninvolved civilians, inside the building they entered under soldiers’ orders, even if this was not done deliberately. The way the army has exempted itself of responsibility for this event, even if only to acknowledge its severity and clarify its circumstances, is intolerable. Shirking the responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of other civilians and the immense damage caused by operation Cast Lead demonstrates yet again the need for an Israeli investigation mechanism that is external to the army.

  9. Alexa I did not know that B’Tselem is a Gaza resident, Minf you I much rather take the word of anybody other than the one who does this

    On 4 January 2009, soldiers gathered about 100 members of the extended a-Samuni family in the house of Wael a-Samuni, in the a-Zeitun neighborhood of Gaza City. The next morning, at 6:30 A.M., when a few members of the family tried to leave the house, the military fired a missile or shell at them, killing one person and wounding two other persons. A few seconds later, the military fired two more shells or missiles that hit the house directly. The house collapsed on its occupants, killing 21 persons, including 9 children and many women, and injuring dozens of other family members. Despite repeated requests by the Red Cross, B’Tselem, and other human rights organization, the army prevented removal of the injured people for two days, until 7 January. After the wounded persons were evacuated, the army demolished the house with the dead bodies inside. It was only possible to remove them from under the debris after the army withdrew, about two weeks later.

    • Commission members did not ask the interviewed Palestinians questions about the activities of Hamas and the other Palestinian terrorist organizations operating in the Gaza Strip which could be classified as war crimes or that were potentially dangerous to innocent Palestinians. Furthermore, there was no serious consideration of Palestinian “friendly fire” incidents, and we can only guess how many Palestinian civilians were killed or wounded by Palestinian fire. – See more at: http://jcpa.org/article/blocking-the-truth-of-the-gaza-war/#sthash.yjz1nVfu.dpuf

  10. I did not know btselem is a Gazan _ Imuch rather trust anybody except someobdy who does this

    On 4 January 2009, soldiers gathered about 100 members of the extended a-Samuni family in the house of Wael a-Samuni, in the a-Zeitun neighborhood of Gaza City. The next morning, at 6:30 A.M., when a few members of the family tried to leave the house, the military fired a missile or shell at them, killing one person and wounding two other persons. A few seconds later, the military fired two more shells or missiles that hit the house directly. The house collapsed on its occupants, killing 21 persons, including 9 children and many women, and injuring dozens of other family members. Despite repeated requests by the Red Cross, B’Tselem, and other human rights organization, the army prevented removal of the injured people for two days, until 7 January. After the wounded persons were evacuated, the army demolished the house with the dead bodies inside. It was only possible to remove them from under the debris after the army withdrew, about two weeks later.

    • “…..the army demolished the house with the dead bodies inside. It was only possible to remove them from under the debris after the army withdrew, about two weeks later.”

      They must have been smelling as bad as the lies and rubbish you are posting on this website.

  11. alexa so now the whole world is a liar Palestinians, the UN, New York Times, Btselem – the only honest judge in this whole thing is the one who examines its own crimes and clears itself of any wrong doing. That is great, I suspect you are white-washer?

    Three years after the end of the operation, the dozens of MPIU investigations opened into cases of harm to civilians have yet to yield results. The Military Advocate General Corps has created a haze around them, preventing any possibility of examining their effectiveness. The Corps’ responses to B’Tselem, combined with media reports, indicate that three indictments have been filed against soldiers who took part in the operation: for theft of a credit card from a Palestinian civilian, for use of a nine-year-old Palestinian child as a human shield, and for “manslaughter of an anonymous person.” In three other cases, disciplinary action alone was taken. Two officers were disciplined for firing explosive shells that struck an UNRWA facility; three officers were disciplined for shelling the al-Maqadmeh Mosque, in which 15 Palestinians were killed, nine of them civilians; and one officer was disciplined for the use of Palestinian civilian as a human shield,

    These meager results are not surprising. The investigations were all opened at a very late stage – the first, to B’Tselem knowledge, in October 2009, a full ten months after the operation had ended. At present, three years after the operation, there is hardly a chance that investigations will lead to further indictments.

    I much rather believe btselem and I do not subscribe to your racist caricature of the Palestinians as liars.

    There has never been a serious investigation into the suspicions raised by B’Tselem and additional Israeli, Palestinian and international organizations regarding breaches of international humanitarian law by the military during the operation. Most of B’Tselem’s demands for investigation were not met. The investigations that were opened did not, to B’Tselem’s knowledge, address the responsibility of high-ranking commanders, but rather focused on the conduct of individual soldiers.

    • Avoiding your own post don;t you. Racist caricature of the Palestinian as liars? NO. Just lies that were porven as lies for all the world to see.

    • “alexa so now the whole world is a liar Palestinians, the UN, New York Times, Btselem”

      The Palestinians, UN, New York Times and Btselem hardly constitute the whole world, but all have to some degree or other problematic records with regard to facts.

  12. alexa – you might not know this victims are always the key witnesses in any trial –
    Or are you saying when the victims are Palestinians they should not be witnesses even if they are witness to the crime. You are an extreme racist. You first justify massacre of Palestinians and than you call them liars. Why do you think the IDF is telling the truth? Their record is not exactly any proof of their honesty
    Israel’s most fearless journalist Amira Hass who goes wherever the truth leads her just published the second in a series of articles in Haaretz on how 29 members of the Samouni family were massacred by the IDF during the Israeli assault on Gaza last winter.

    Family who lost 29 members in Gaza war: We envy the dead

    Twenty-nine members of the family, all of them civilians, were killed in the Israel Defense Force’s winter assault – 21 during the shelling of a house where IDF soldiers had gathered some 100 members of the family a day earlier.

    The deliberate nature of the attack on the same family compound the IDF had gathered numerous civilians into is inescapable. This was a massacre.

    They did not know that under the dust and rubble in one large room, nine family members remained alive: the elderly matriarch and five of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren – the youngest of whom was three years old, the eldest 16 – along with another kinsman and his son. They had passed out, some of them beneath corpses.

    • “Sharon” – you may not know this, but victims are not always the key witnesses in any trial – sometimes the victims are dead, stupid. You may also not know that witness testimony is examined not just by the prosecution, but also by defense lawyers. You may not know this, but both prosecution and defense are entitled to produce their own witnesses. You may not know this, but when eye witness testimony goes against empirical evidence one goes with the empirical evidence when available, as eye witness testimony is less reliable in finding of fact. You obviously don’t know this, but there are two sides to every story. You may not know this, but you think there is only one.

      • Jeff, “Sharon” doesn’t care about truth or justice.
        Sharon is identical to those who burn the Israeli flag in Cairo and blame them for super natural animal’s designs.

  13. I fear that as we will learn more about the prisoners being released we can only weep for those who fell victim to this kind of scum. And where is the US in all of this? What unbearable pressure has it applied on Israel to agree to such unreasonable demands?

  14. Jeff heard of the postmortem but remember all Palestinians are not dead some of the victims in the family survived as witness to the crime – some were badly injured and had lost their near and dear and you have the temerity to call them liars –

    Unfortunately, for those who are trying to white-wash the crimes of the IDF, the world believes the UN, Haaretz, btselem and above all Palestinians who have suffered so much over decades.

  15. Sharon Sweety
    Ultimately your cause , your Palestinian society will venerate , will eulogise , will throw sweets and ululate at the return of a bunch of mass murderers . Sociopaths who feel not nothing as they batter , stab , shoot and immolate innocent men women and children .
    It really takes something to look a person , a child in the eyes before murdering them without a pang of remorse or conscience .
    And that’s what Palestinian society is taking back . No doctors , engineers , teachers . No Nobel Laureates . No inventors . No entrepreneurs . Nothing to benefit Palestinian society unless you class Mass murderers as being a benefit , Sociopaths as role models . So sad . So tragic . Regardless of whether Israel is there or not G-D forbid , it’ s Palestinian society that is the loser . At some point Hamas and the PA will take each other on in a way that will make anything Israel has done to secure itself seem a welcome relief .

    In truth Sharon Sweety , you and those like you are the true enemies of Palestine . You have no real interest in the pursuit of a fair and equitable peace accord . One which will lead to two states for two people . Your primary cause is the dismantlement of Israel . a cause which even Finklestein labels illegal and the BDS a cult with no mainstream political support .
    Your so called humanitarian gestures are bogus . Your cause is bogus . You are bogus .

  16. The loving and cuddly IDF soldier doing his job of ethic cleansing – I admire him for giving Palestinian children candy after having destroyed their houses and killed their parents – the real loser Zionist Israeli who has lost all humanity. It is still hopeful that an Israeli newspaper exposed the murderous actions of the IDF

    On May 31, 2002 the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot published an interview with Moshe Nissim, nicknamed “Kurdi Bear”, a D-9 operator who took part in the battle. Nissim said he had driven his D-9 for seventy-five hours straight, drinking whiskey to avoid fatigue, and that apart from a two-hour training before the battle, he had no prior experience in driving a bulldozer. He said he had begged his officers to let him destroy more houses and added: “I didn’t see, with my own eyes, people dying under the blade of the D-9. and I didn’t see house[s] falling down on live people. But if there were any, I wouldn’t care at all.” … “I hurt about the 13 [Israeli IDF casualties]. If we’d have gone into the building of that ambush, we’d have buried all those Palestinians alive. On my mind were only our soldiers. I did not feel pity for the Palestinians who stayed without the houses. I only felt pity for their children, who are not at fault. There was one wounded child shot by Arabs. I speak Arabic. I asked him how he got injured and he said the Palestinians shot him. A medic of Golani units would go down every once in a while to change his bandages until he was evacuated. They were taken care of, the children there. The soldiers gave them candy, the children. But of their fathers and women I did not feel pity. I remembered the image on television of the mother who said she will make children so that they could blow up in Israel.

    • The IDF were acting against the Islamic Jihad terrorists who had recently killed a large number of Israeli civilians in the 2nd intifada. Any other army would have bombed the centre of operations of the terrorist organisation responsible. Israel risked the lives of their soldiers to minimise Palestinian civilian casualties in that operation. They showed extraordinary humanity in doing so.

    • After that first sentence I feel that this ‘individual’ should be banned. Even scrolling past his pro-terrorist antisemitic propaganda takes too long. What is that sentence but a blood libel, exacerbated by the fact that it is the “Palestinians” who celebrate deadly bloodshed with sweets.

  17. From the Indy:
    The issue of Palestinian prisoners is a controversial one for both sides in the conflict. While most Israelis view them as terrorists, many Palestinians consider them heroes detained unjustly, and securing their freedom has been a longstanding aim.

    Sounds just like the wet writings of Harriet Sherwood. Yes, perhaps some are/were unjustly detained – but surely some are indeed terrorists. Why can’t Alistair Dawber make an effort to break down the figures into names and charges?

    The other obvious question here: why not instead feature a photo of the family of Isaac Rotenberg (assuming, that is, that they’d let the media anywhere near) – because I can imagine them being somewhat distraught over the release of his murderer.

  18. I suspect the Samouni family are not over the moon that those who murdered their loved ones did not have to answer for their crime.

    • The Samouni family lost their lives in the fog of war. They were not targeted. There was faulty communication between the ground forces and the Air Force, who were not told that the Samouni family were there. It was a tragedy for the family, but the civilian casualty rate in operation Cast Lead was less than that caused by allied forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

  19. This example reminds me of the time that a married couple, two of the worlds leading particle physicists,were struck by a Hamas suicide bomber in Dimona. The wife was killed and the husband seriously injured.
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/victims/pages/lyubov%20razdolskaya.aspx

    The Indy showed a photo of the tearful mother of the bomber holding a picture of him as an angelic looking boy 10 years earlier and said nothing about the victims.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bombers-strike-in-israel-for-first-time-in-over-a-year-778036.html

  20. Yes, Stephen it is an acknowldged fact that the IDF has as yet not killed as many as died in the Second World War. Are you for real. Is the IDF totally devoid of intelligence. The IDF put them in the house.

    Members of the Samouni family had been sheltering in one of the house, trying to avoid attracting the attention of Israeli soldiers who were in the area, who had previously gathered them into that particular house. On Monday morning, 5 January 2009, four men left the house to gather firewood for cooking. Next to the house was a small wooden structure, and the men had reportedly begun climbing on this to take the boards apart. This activity was seen in aerial drone photographs, and the poles that the men were carrying were mistakenly identified as rocket-propelled grenades by an Israeli Givati Brigade commander operating from a remote location. One soldier later testified to Breaking the Silence that soldiers had received information that a rocket-propelled grenade squad were located in the area. On seeing the drone photographs, the Israeli commander called for a missile strike against the men outside the house; they ran into the Samouni house for shelter, which was then struck twice with subsequent missile fire

    • That is not what happened. There land forces did put them in that house, but did not communicate the fact to the right people in the Air Force. It was a screw-up but it was not deliberate. The Samouni house was hit by the Air Force, as the activity that they saw there they interpreted to be by Hamas. Screw-ups happen in war. It certainly was not either the IDF’s intention to kill them or in their interest to do so.
      As I said, the fact is that despite Hamas using the civilian population as human shields the civilian casualty rate in Op. Cast Lead was much lower than that caused by the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      • The breaking the Silence anonymous report was a soldier not reporting what had happened, but simply reporting a rumour that started with a guess from somebody trying to work out what had happened. It has no credibility whatsoever.

  21. Sharon Sweetie
    What sort of society eulogises sociopaths . Mass murderers who are perfectly at ease with repeatedly smashing a child’s head with a rifle butt. That monster by the name of Sammy Kuntar received a heroes welcome in Lebanon when he was exchanged for the bodies of soldiers murdered by Hezbollah .
    This is a stain on Palestinian society and Arab society in general . But no one should be in the least surprised . After all one just has to revisit the so called Arab Spring and witness the carnage that is taking place across the Arab world . Syria , Lebanon , Tunisia , Irak and now Egypt .
    Palestinian society replete with its embedded antisemitism and vicious hatred of Israel is aided and abetted by anti humanitarian organisations and individuals such as yourself .
    You deserve each other .

  22. And on top of all that evil in the Arab world we have the Zionists who think it is alright to kill Arabs and take their houses and be abusive and yet boast the most ethical army in the world and the only democracy in the Arab world. What ethics and what democracy.

    Local witnesses said that most of the family members who died had been killed instantly, while others sustained wounds and were unable to receive help in time, due to the IDF’s alleged refusal to allow paramedics access to the wounded.[7] One Palestinian doctor said that over 100 phone calls were made by residents seeking help for the injured. While two medics were sent, they were reportedly blocked by the Israelis. Israel said that it cooperated with medics but it was sometimes impossible to permit access because of the battlefield conditions.[17] Among those wounded in the Monday attack was 12-year old Ishaq Samouni, who bled for two days before he died on Wednesday

    • Indeed, accurate coverage and fact-checking of the al-Samouni incident is extremely challenging. For one thing, names and ages of the various victims do not match up from source to source. For instance, two Palestinian NGOs which provide a complete list of the al-Samouni fatalities are Al- Haq and the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. Al-Haq puts Azza Salah Al Samouni’s age at three years, while the Palestinian Center for Human Rights lists Azza Salah Talal as-Samouni as five months. Similarly, Al-Haq lists Huda Nael Al Samouni as 17, while PCHR lists Huda Na’el Fares al-Samouni’s age as seven. Al-Haq lists Ahmad Atieh Al Samouni as 14, while PCHR lists Ahmed Halemi Ateya al-Samouni as four. The latter child is a key figure in Hass’ coverage, as we will come to see, and she reports his age as four years old.

      In addition, there are dozens of survivors, and the task of sorting out their sometimes overlapping and sometimes contradictory testimonies is complicated. As Yvonne Green, a British poet who visited the Samounis after the incident, wrote in the Jerusalem Post:

      I was told stories at Samouni Street which contradicted each other, what I saw and later media accounts. Examples of these inconsistencies are that 24, 31, 34 or more members of the Fatah Samouni family had died. That all the deaths occurred when Israel bombed the safe building it had told 160 family members to shelter in; the safe building was pointed out to me but looked externally intact and washing was still hanging on a line on one of its balconies

  23. It seems, Sharon, you hate Jews more than support Palestinians. You are a hate mongering twat with no life other than antagonizing those who support Israel. And, really, there’s about 100 million morons just like you on this planet doing what you can to destroy our resources and to turn the multitudes into morons. And you wonder why you haven’t succeeded? For one thing, and I think I’m going to repeat myself a bit here, but you’re a total, complete dolt. Not half-way stupid but rather full-on moronic. For another reason, you support only war. Well, only war will not get you peace. Do you have a plan that will lead to peace for both sides? Zionists do, and have had it for the 13 years. Your response is to take a shit on that.

    And so there we go. You come here with absolutely nothing interesting or logical to note. And you come here again with nothing interesting or logical to note. And you will come again, with nothing interesting or logical to note. Because this is what you do. You are an agitator, and a really bad one at that. Unless being an anonymous twat is a step up for you, which wouldn’t be surprising, because you’re dumb enough to believe that you’re doing the work of Good.

    Holy shit, I am 1000 times dumber for having spent 3 minutes drafting this nonsense that you have inspired in me. Yes, Toots, you make us all dumber for having the audacity at trying to communicate through that thick brick you call a brain. Personally, I expect people like you to kill themselves before it’s all over. Because not only are you too dumb to figure life out, but you’re a complete coward who is totally incapable of emotional and intellectual growth.

    • Bingo. We have all wasted far too much time and effort on this turd (and all his/her other noms de guerre).

  24. Dumb Boy I hope you read this and stop wasting your time defending the indefensible

    A 6 September 2007 Human Rights Watch report found that most of the civilian deaths in Lebanon resulted from “indiscriminate Israeli airstrikes”, and found that Israeli aircraft targeted vehicles carrying fleeing civilians.[222] In a statement issued before the report’s release, the human rights organization said there was no basis to the Israeli government’s claim that civilian casualties resulted from Hezbollah guerrillas using civilians as shields. Kenneth Roth, Human Rights Watch executive director, said there were only “rare” cases of Hezbollah operating in civilian villages. “To the contrary, once the war started, most Hizbollah(sic) military officials and even many political officials left the villages” he said. “Most Hizbollah(sic) military activity was conducted from prepared positions outside Lebanese villages in the hills and valleys around.” Roth also noted that “Hezbollah fighters often didn’t carry their weapons in the open or regularly wear military uniforms, which made them a hard target to identify. But this doesn’t justify the IDF’s failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants, and if in doubt to treat a person as a civilian, as the laws of war require.”[223]

    • “…stop wasting your time defending the indefensible”

      ‘Sharon’ you cannot defend the indefensible that is why it is called INDEFENSIBLE.
      Reading your ‘posts’ it is obvious you are a stranger to truth and historical fact, clearly you are also a stranger to logic and the English language.

      So how much more of these fantasy tales, that only you and your fellow imbeciles believe, are you going to spew out?

      Who are you going to be tomorrow, Ben Dover?

    • “This latest attack on Israel’s actions during the Second Lebanon War comes as no surprise. It follows a clear pattern by Human Rights Watch (HRW), which has sought to create a moral equivalence between the deliberate targeting of civilians by a terrorist organization and the efforts of a democratic country to defend itself.”

      “Despite their own admission in this report that Hizbullah fired from the vicinity of UN outposts on an almost daily basis, HRW has defied logic in failing to condemn this systematic use of human shields,” Steinberg added.

      “Predictably, HRW also fails to take the opportunity in this report to demand the release of kidnapped servicemen Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev, who remain captive in Hizbullah’s hands. To this day, they continue to be denied access to the outside world, in contravention of all human rights standards,” he said.

      Steinberg condemned HRW for its “serious shortcomings such as this which expose the moral bankruptcy of an organization which purports to uphold a truly universal standard of human rights.”

  25. Among the fellow imbeciles are the Israeli soldiers breaking the silence who took part in the operations, Haaretz and there are others if you care to know.

    According to Israeli soldiers who took part in operations in the Zeitoun district, and who spoke with Haaretz and Breaking the Silence, brigade commander Col. Ilan Malka insisted that not a single ambulance should enter the sector under his responsibility, fearing Hamas attempts to capture Israeli soldiers. A soldier said that Col. Malka insisted the wounded should be taken on foot for medical care, to meet ambulances at a distance of over three kilometers away. The ambulances were kept at a distance, according the Red Cross, by an earth mound put in the road into the area by the Israeli military. But many reports from the field stated that some groups of civilians who did try to walk to the ambulances were turned back, with soldiers firing at them.[15]

  26. Gaza was bombed on the day I arrived in retaliation for a series of rocket strikes on Israel, made by Arab militants. Those militants knew this would happen, but they launched their rockets anyway. Many Gazans hate them for this.

    One, whom I shall call Ibrahim, told me how he had begged these maniacs to leave his neighbourhood during Israel’s devastating military attack nearly two years ago. His wife was close to giving birth.
    He knew the Israelis would quickly seek out the launcher, and that these men would bring death down on his home. But the militants sneered at his pleading, so he shoved his wife into his car and fled.

    For the Islamist rocket-firers are also the government here, supported by Iran and others who care more for an abstract cause than they do for real people. They claim that their permanent war with Israel is for the benefit of the Palestinian Arabs. But is it?

  27. alexa what are you saying it was the gypsies fault for annoying the fascists of the Nazi Party? The gypsies should have known better? I disagree.

    • Just showing how Hamas shoot from between civialins population and than run away so those civialins suffer the retaliation fire.

    • Good that you brought up the Gypsies. The anti-Roma racism in the Arab world and among the Palestinians is all pervasive. They hate the Roma as they hate the Jews.

  28. I think what Alexa is saying is that the ordinary people of both sides want an end to the conflict and in particular an end to terrorist militia positioning themselves among civilians in the knowledge that the IDF will either refrain from striking back or if they do ,the resulting civilian casualties will provide a propaganda scoop . Either way it’s a win win for people who proudly proclaim they yearn for death so that they can become Shaheed and live for eternity in Paradise .
    Hamas state we love death as the Jews love life .
    ‘ Sweetie ‘ as I said earlier you are part of the problem . You should be utterly ashamed of yourself . Now head back to the sewers of Mondoweiss or Electronic Intifada or whatever stone you crawled out from .

  29. Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton aka Nazisse aka NS-
    Ismail/Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek is a mutiple non personality, always on the run.