CiF asks Palestinian supporter of ‘armed resistance’ her views on the peace process

bakerAn August 1 essay at ‘Comment is Free’, titled ‘The Middle East peace talks are back to disappoint‘, by Gaza based blogger (and Electronic Intifada contributorRana Baker didn’t include anything particularly surprising – at least by ‘CiF’ standards.  

In her column, Baker, an activist from Gaza, demonizes Israelis as ‘colonisers’ who administer an “apartheid-like system in impoverished Bantustans”, dismisses the newly relaunched peace talks as an act of surrender and exercise in futility, and mocks as “irrelevant”, weak and spineless Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

Baker’s views on the peace process are evidently considered especially worthy by the Guardian brass, as, in addition to her CiF commentary, Harriet Sherwood also featured the “Gaza blogger” – in a Aug. 3 story in The Observer (sister publication of the Guardian) – as one of the five “Voices from Palestine”, ‘Do Israelis and Palestinians think time is right for peace?’. In the space allotted to Baker – in a column which includes the views of five Israelis and five Palestinians – she again blasts the negotiations as useless, and actually praises Hamas’ refusal to engage in talks with the Jewish state.

So, other than face to face negotiations, what strategy does Rana Baker prefer?

Well, there are at least two indications that the Guardian’s ‘voice from Gaza’ clearly prefers violence to diplomacy – the first of which is the following post published at Electronic Intifada on Jan. 19, 2012:


Here are some excerpts from Baker’s post:

Negotiations have more than once proved to be useless. In fact, they proved to be damaging to the very essence of the Palestinian popular struggle i.e. the Right of Return.

People everywhere are born to be free. Enslavement is not only illegal because it causes human miseries, but because it essentially opposes the sound human nature that views fellow human beings as brothers and sisters not as slaves or second-class citizens. Unfortunately, Israel is singling itself out of this category.

Since the 1993 Oslo Accords, more Palestinian land has been expropriated and the Nakba never ceased. The Palestinian leadership, whether in Gaza or the West Bank, proved to be politically disabled; a broken record at best. Israel’s Apartheid is breaking new grounds passing new racist laws every day. World leaders are becoming more biased than they have ever been turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people on a daily basis. Isn’t it the time for a popular Palestinian revolution in the form of a third intifada?

Finally, in case there’s any doubt as to what kind of “Palestinian revolution” she’s proposing, there’s an update on her Facebook account which seems to reveal the orientation of her political sympathies.  The following graphic and text, and her accompanying English translation, was posted to her 1,474 friends on Nov. 8, 2012:


The image (possibly depicting Leila Khaled, the former PFLP terror operative noted for being the first woman to hijack an airplane) of course suggests that the reason why Baker isn’t ‘hopeful’ about the peace process is pretty clear: violent resistance is the only legitimate path to the ‘liberation’ of Palestine.

Perhaps Guardian editors may wish to inform readers of Baker’s ideological proclivity towards violence the next time they legitimize her views on the pages of The Observer and ‘Comment is Free’.

150 replies »

  1. Rana Baker: “Isn’t it the time for a popular Palestinian revolution in the form of a third intifada?”

    Rana obviously wants to initiate Ethnic cleansing of some sort.
    She either wants the Israeli and Palestinian Arabs to be cleansed or the Jews to be cleansed.
    One way or another she uses them as pawns in her sick game which will not stop blood shed in the region regardless of the result.

      • Your comment is breathtakingly stupid.

        Like many Jews Anglicized and shortened their names, we Arabs do the same thing too mostly so people like you can pronounce them.

        • “Like many Jews Anglicized and shortened their names, we Arabs do the same thing too mostly so people like you can pronounce them.”
          You anglicize your names for people like me with backgrounds in linguistics and a uncanny knack for mastering the pronunciation of foreign words/languages with an impeccable accent? Seems like a wasted effort. It sounds…stupid.

            • It is like the pot calling the kettle black…this whole blogsite is racist. If you are not Jewish you do not rate and shall I say are culturally inferior. By the looks of the responses I think many of you who have written in deserve the comment former Presidential candidate Romney assigned to Palestinians, culturally inferior.

              • Why on earth would I think Arabs are inferior to me?
                Many Hospitals in Israel are being ran by Arabs.
                Our Hospitals and health care is one of our pride assets.
                Your statement about Jews (or is it only Jews on this blog? – might have misunderstood you) doesn’t stick with israelis’ attitude in general.

                • No one is disputing Israeli health care, I think it is twice better than ours in the US. I have an American/Israeli doctor. What we are disputing here is the racist policy towards Palestinians and other lower SES groups, citizens and migrants residing in Israel. You also have the advantage of the US pouring billions of dollars into your military and funding the settlements. You have the fourth largest army, this is why it is so laughable that the Palestinians are a threat that merit erecting this gigantic monstrosity of a wall and a separate bus system for Palestinians and Israeli Jews.
                  Jewish humanity is known especially during the civil rights movement in the US. just wish it applied to giving Palestinians self determination–please no talk that Palestinians do not want peace–Oslo was a joke that the weakened Arafat accepted which he shouldn’t have, even Ben Ami Shlomo, one of the prime negotiators, admitted he would not have accepted on a bet.

                • Sadly my comment was for Diane Shammas and not dianeshammas. Nice try though. Butt out. Troll.

          • Unfortunately for you I have a Phd and speak four languages, one of them Arabic so stop when you are ahead and if you are in want of argumentation do not delve on the frivolous whether the writer has a legitimate Arab surname or not.

            • You don’t say. And here I thought you were just a run of the mill bigot. I didn’t know you were an educated one.

          • But DS has a point, Jeff. Your comment above sounds like the bigots who would say “I didn’t know that Baker was a Jewish name.”

            • That was not the intent of my comment. I personally couldn’t care less what names families choose for themselves or their offspring. You might have noticed that I have an anglicized first name. Without even checking (hardly even possible) I’m quite sure that I must be the first and only Jeff in my family’s history. Of course, were I to tell you that I was given that name “mostly so people like you could pronounce” it, you’d know I was talking straight out of my ass. I was given that name to enhance my chances, not yours (as is most often the case). Of course, my parents also liked the name.
              I wasn’t taking a dig at Ms. Baker at all. The dig was at, and only at, those white middle class multiculturalists (in this case) who look for all authenticity through minority ethnic and racial group identity. I’ve certainly spent enough time around such people and pretending to be one for a moment gave me a chuckle.

  2. All those splendid mansions in Cairo now housing the various foreign embassies belong to expelled Jews whose legal claims and 50 years of back rent must be acknowledged. And so it is with nine other Muslim countries who stole assets and lands four or five times the size of Israel. We don’t have to release murderers in order to discuss reparations. Most of the PalArabs’ families were from Egypt or Syria. Perhaps we can lure the PalArabs back to the actual lands of their fathers in Egypt, etc.with all that stolen Jewish wealth in Cairo, Alexandria, etc.

  3. Let us be clear here. The proposed state of Israel was endorsed by Britain (Balfour Act) and the Western Hemisphere to follow after the Holocaust , but history reveals that countries like the U.S. and Canada, during when early reports circulated that Jews were facing extermination, the U.S. and Canada refused entry to thousands of Jews (i.e. the St. Louis).—due mostly to the potential threat of foreign labor infiltrating the U.S. work force during the Great Depression. After the Holocaust, safe for countries like Argentina and the U.S., continued to refuse entry to Jewish refugees. Meanwhile, during the three aliyas to historical Palestine, the Palestinian population for the most part welcomed settlers and taught them how to cultivate the land. Resistance began when the Zionist project imposed expulsion of the indigenous population from their land. So who were the true racists from the inception, the Europeans, so why are you pointing the finger at the Palestinians who had nothing to do with your genocide in Germany and Eastern Europe. As you fought the Germans during the Warsaw Ghetto, in the same manner the Palestinians are resisting against a brutal Israeli occupation that institutes de facto, if not de jure, a different set of laws for Jews and Palestinians, the latter regardless if they are Muslim or Christian.

    • Would be very hard to decide which part of your crap is the funniest, but maybe these sentences could take the first prize:
      Meanwhile, during the three aliyas to historical Palestine, the Palestinian population for the most part welcomed settlers and taught them how to cultivate the land.
      Welcomed them like the “settlers” in Hebron in 1929?
      But thank them to teach us about the famously effective and modern Palestinian land cultivation techniques.

      • I suppose you are one of those that belong to the flat earth society that believes that historic Palestine was a “desert bloom” until the first round of Zionist settlers came to Palestine towards the end of the 19th century. By the time the Hebron settlers came they had worn out the goodwill of the indigenous people of Palestine, Bedouins included.

        • So the Hebron settlers arrived there in the end of the XIX. century. Certainly then started to build the Cave of Machpelach, Diane dear history is not your forte…
          And yes most of historic Palestine was a poorly populated arid wasteland before the Zionists started to cultivate it as some poor flat earth society members like Mark Twain believed after seeing it with his own eyes.

          • If it was not so tragic your comment would be laughable. For one, you are quoting a fiction writer not an ethnographer who would spend years to record his observations. Why don’t you defer to a host of other historians, like Ilan Pappe, one of your own, who along with others would refute your claim.
            Second, as Zionists do to support their Biblical right wing claim to historic Palestine is to take out of context Mark Twain’s quotes. He said the same thing about Greece, Syria and Lebanon how they were wretched dry land. I have been to Greece and Lebanon many times—full of green and farmers dating back centuries. My paternal side is Lebanese. I also have lived in Gaza for three months at a time for four years, and I see plenty of arable land when the Israelis will allow the Palestinians to cultivate it and export their product.
            In Lebanon there are no deserts, but beautiful snow to ski on and beaches. I have skied there and just came back from bathing in Batroun and North Lebanon. My ancestral village of Amioun have cultivate olive trees for centuries before Israel became a state.
            You were saying about desert bloom. Al Sham, encompassing Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and Jordan is far from a desert bloom….

            • “For one, you are quoting a fiction writer not an ethnographer”
              Mark Twain’s comments on his trip were not part of a work of fiction. They were his observations. But when he did write fiction he managed to reveal the truth about the world he lived in.
              “Why don’t you defer to a host of other historians, like Ilan Pappe, one of your own, who along with others would refute your claim.”
              Aside from the race baiting “one of your own” in the comment (as if Mr. Pappe’s ethnic background is some sort of deciding factor in truth telling, especially as it’s to your liking), what Pappe does with history is the mirror image of what Twain did with fiction, i.e., he begins with reality and then falsifies.

              • Mark Twain made one observation that occurred during the summer in the Mediterranean where everything was dry and not blooming. He never lived in the Mediterranean or the Middle East. Is Greece a desert bloom? along with Palestine? Is Lebanon a desert bloom. I think you like Peter are part of the “flat earth society”?

                • Sorry, Diane, but you can’t run around claiming that Arabs are the indigenous people of the land of Israel, which predates Palestine, which in turn predates an Arab national movement calling itself the Palestinian people by a couple thousand years, and then call people who know it members of the “flat earth society.”
                  You see, Diane, in my very round real world a flat earther would be someone who claimed that there was never a temple in Jerusalem, that the Jews were never there, and that Palestine has always been Arab. It would be someone who claimed the Palestinian people have existed for 9 thousand years, that Jesus, a Jew from Judea was a Palestinian. It would be someone who asserts that in his state not one Jew may reside and that his Jew free state includes all of old Jerusalem, and every site of the most historical importance to the Jews, especially those of a religious persuasion. My idea of a flat earther is someone who uses the media and the school system as well as international forums to dehumanize and demonize the Jews. Someone who indoctrinates children from the earliest ages to glorify murder and total victory against Jews. And while these flat earthers are drumming into children’s heads that there life’s work is dying while killing Jews on behalf of a bigoted honor/shame society, instead of settling their disputes for the benefit of all, the Jews are out winning Nobel Prizes in the sciences and medicine, creating life improving technologies, great works of art and generally improving the lot of humankind.

                • Diane,
                  The Arab inhabitants concentrated in the coastal area and some large cities in land. mainly the mountain region of the Shomoron and the Jordan river area.
                  Villages between Ashkelon and Um Rashrash were hardly found.
                  The big Yizrael valley had many Sheep and Goat herds which the arab population used (still do).
                  Do you know what sheep do that cows don’t?
                  They pluck the plants all the way leaving it to die.
                  Take away the sheep you give nature a chance.
                  Same thing happen in the UK as you can clearly see in.

                  It was the settlers that planted the Gilboa and Jerusalem forests.
                  It was not the Arabs.
                  The Arabs in those days were seasonal workers which worked for Turkish land lords.
                  The Jews bought the lands which no one wanted like Rishon Le Tzion.
                  the built neighbourhoods where no one did like outside the walls of Jerusalem.
                  Because the Jews had and still do, what Arabs never managed.
                  They work together looking out for one another.

                  Look at Syria and tell me if this is what happens there?

            • Why don’t you defer to a host of other historians, like Ilan Pappe,…
              If Ilan Pappe is a historian then maybe you really has a Phd. What is your subject? The history of the Martians?
              …one of your own,…
              Ilan Pappe is Hungarian?!
              …who along with others would refute your claim.
              Like the claim of the Egyptian Arafat that the Jewish temple was built in Shechem?.
              In Lebanon there are no deserts, but beautiful snow to ski on and beaches…
              Exactly so as in the Rocky Mountains is in the Alps and the Carpathian Mountains.
              And how is it connected to the underpopulated deserts of historic Palestine? Maybe you want back the Syrian Vilayet with Erdogan as the Ottoman ruler? Or the great friend of Lebanon and the Palestinians Bashir Assad?
              …and I see plenty of arable land when the Israelis will allow the Palestinians to cultivate it and export their product.
              Maybe they should export it through Egypt? Just a thought…
              Anyway please tell where did you get your alleged PhD; I hope not at the LSE

            • Diane:
              “Why don’t you defer to a host of other historians, like Ilan Pappe, one of your own …”

              Of all the Israeli historians, you just happen to pick Pappe!

              “Opinion is divided on the subject”, I suppose – as in this case:

              • Dear Pretzelberg,

                If you look carefully at my posts I have mentioned other Israeli historians than Pappe, such as Benny Morris, who while a historical revisionist on the policies of Israel, i.e., one of which that the majority of Palestinians (or what this blogsite would group as all Arabs because Palestinians did not exist until the Jewish settlers from Europe and elsewhere arrived and produced a desert bloom) did not flee their land on the call of Arab leaders, but from fearing for their life as their homes were being destroyed, would be considered a Zionist who would differ vehemently with Pappe’s position.
                Second, where did I state in any of my posts that Arab countries do not have corruption. However, as you astutely pointed out that Israel is not “lily white”, but I also can point to two of Israel’s key officials, former prime minister Ehud Olmert, and the quasi deposed Minister of Foreign Affairs, Avigdor Lieberman, unless he is acquitted, are/were involved in corruption charges.
                Israel portrays itself as a democratic society with a morally pure IDF but my experiences there are much different–I expected better than the Arab regimes. A simple case in point, I was traveling as an international on a bus from Bethlehem to Jerusalem where most of the passengers were international or Palestinians returning to their homes (which they own) in Jerusalem. An Israel Israeli young woman and her female cousin (by the way they were Christian as wasn’t it Ethan Bronner of the NY Times hinting that Israelis prefer Christians and they are generally more educated than the Muslims, who was obliged to get off the bus to show her ID. Now, if this person is an Israeli citizen why could she not remain on the bus while the IDF checked our respective IDS. To add to the monstrous “Apartheid” Wall, that polite Palestinians refer to as the annexation wall” , Israel has instituted a separate bus system for those Palestinians that travel for work to Israel because the settlers, who most of them do not work and receive huge benefits from the government, do not want to rub shoulders with, demand a separate bus system–the same old same old for the sake of security. The Wall is enough security and by the admittance of the Israeli government’s hasbara suicide bombings declined, so why the separate bus systems. Policies are supported under the guise of security or some trumped up excuse. Not to mention Israel’s racial heirarchy who ranks in economic status and the treatment of the African migrants ooh so scary like white people considered during the race riots in the US major cities circa late 60s.
                As for Lebanon, have you visited there? If you are a UK citizen you could if Israeli not unless you have a dual passport. It is quantitatively more democratic than any Arab country. It has a power sharing Parliament, although there is a lot of infighting between Sunnis and Shia. Socially, very open society, which is why most “Arabs” as this cite enjoys lumping all Arabs as teh same, flock to.
                I have heard Israelis say oh I served there I loved the place, so beautiful. Do not even think that Lebanon will surrender to the Zionist racial project of including the Cedars into Eretz Israel. There are gay clubs probably not as openly as Israel. Beaches great, the snow wonderful, don’t like much the mosquitoes in any of the Sham area of the Middle East.
                Continuing on the topic of Lebanon here, the difference than the majority of postees here, I disagree with their policy as to giving citizenship to Palestinians who after being expelled after 1948 went to Lebanon and have lived there for years. It took me years of soul searching and reading policy articles, pro and con, to arrive at a position. A difficult one as most of my own relatives and friends of Lebanese ancestry disagree with me. And Israelis who have sided with Palestinians it too took courage and soul searching to come up with their opinions that thank god they did and do not represent the right wing on this blogsite. Because Israel has placed Lebanon in this situation as they, Israel, refuse to abide by UN Resolution 194 “the right of return” that Lebanon has insituted this policy of no citizenship to Palestinians out of the fear of upsetting the delicate balance of Sunnis, Christians, and Shias, very similar to the Zionist state of Israel concern of demographic imbalance–they do not want to see their majority of all Jewish born or converted offset by the high birth rate of Muslims hence the repressive policies to drive Palestinians from “Israel”.
                Change in opinion is good, but the postees on this blogsite continue to spout the same Israeli hasbara. Don’t worry guys the way that the peace talks are headed, which is why out of fear there is this spate of Zionist attacks on this blog, things are going your way and will remain status quo. A few prisoner exchanges for perhaps a dozen settlement closures, BIG DEAL.

      • Yes, Peter! I know of someone who went to Israel in 1950. He said the Arabs had little black sheep ‘grazing’ on denuded hills. And there is the 1939 report on the 200 or so abandoned villages.

        Funny how the Arabs rewrite history. What an inferiority complex they have!

        There isn’t any doubt that the photograph on the book cover is the terrorist Khaled, Her family fled to Lebanon in 1948 so she may be as legitimate a ‘refugee’ as the dynastic liars are likely to produce from among the 30,000 or so who fled/were taken by parents and are still alive.

        I see Baker doesn’t mention a ‘right of return’ or fair compensation for Jews expelled from Arab countries in far greater numbers and not at the instigation of their own ‘leaders’. Very, very unlike Arabs they have not received a penny in handouts and we are still paying for Arab grandchildren!

        Finally people should remember the connections between ‘Arab nationalism’ and Nazism.

        • In the Hula Valley and the settlements of the Jizrael valley the roads had Ucalyptus trees planted along them to protect cars from bullets being fired at them from over looking Arab villages and hill tops.
          The Eucalyptus trees were brought in the 19th century by the Jews to drain swamps which had malaria all round the area.
          Check out the Proffessor Mar’s clinic in Rosh Pina when you’re in north Israel next time.

          I guess most of the world owe Gideon Mar and the settlements and the Zionist
 a big hand of applause!

          • And of course to those like Dianne S. who believes Israel (or Palestine if you wish) was populated here is one of the reason why it hardly was:


            And the reason to Israel’s success is not the fire power and war like Dianne would have you believe but the spirit to beat the Maleria.


          • Ah! I must look him up. Also, it is amazing that people don’t find out about the dangers of travel in the Holy Land before the Jewish return. I don’t think there’s a single Christian report that doesn’t mention marauding armed Beduin. The Dick Turpins of Palestine – though not very likely to be trapped by their handwriting.

            • Yes, that was a factor too.
              The Jews managed to combat that by creating the “Shomer”.
              Unlike the many Arabs around they had a unified goal.
              The Arabs during Ottoman time didn’t care much for national aspiration and were happy to keep things as they were.
              Many new migrants kept very good terms with the locals.
              As always it was whe both political aspirations collided that things exploded.
              This was by large thanks to false British and French promisses to both sides and the rise of the Mufti of Jerusalem (Husseini) as well as the national Arab idenitity of the late 20’s. and the creation of the Muslim Botherhood.

              • I’ve also heard of the Arab peacemakers murdered by the Nazi Mufti. Yeats said something like “those to whom evil is done do evil in return”. But they do it to their own, to Israel and to themselves as individuals and families.

              • Another falsehood in Lebanon and the US (the Markozel family) there was a vibrant Lebanese then Syrian press who did not agree with the French policies and supported Arab nationalism among Christians and Muslims.

                • Troll.
                  What part of the word Ottoman don’t you understand?
                  The French and Brits were not around in those parts yet…
                  Hence why I said things changed when post WW1.

                  In fact after raids on North Hulla Jewish migrants at some points the only Arabs who would welcome them for help were Shiites from South Lebanon.
                  This goes to show that situation always evolves.
                  The shiites changed badly after Palestinian Sunnis in South Lebanon started using their “camps” (more like Lebanese permanent detention camps) as bases for various factions like the PLO, PFLP, DFLP, PLF, PFLP-GC. While being left stranded with little hope in throughout the 60’s their poverty brought about by successive Lebanese governments and the creation of UNRWA which gave them stupid false hope, that no other refugee in the world has, created atmosphere of arms and drugs trade, as well as kept the intolerable levels of internal strife.

                  In fact I know a Lebanese Palestinian who hates the Lebanese more than he hates the Israelis for causing so much pain to his family.

                  But why would a person from Pakistan care so much for so few when so many of his own are being inslaved in the Gulf states?
                  Which master do you serve, one must wonder?

                  • That is pure canard, to always deflect from Israel’s brutal occupation of the Palestinians to point to Lebanon. Isn’t Israel the democratic country with a morally pure army?
                    I mentioned to this blog that I disagree with many of Lebanese policies, particularly the “personal status law” that imposes the decisions of religious authorities on individuals’ rights living in Lebanon, e.g., as regarding women and intermarriage between a Lebanese woman and a non-Lebanese born, within the context of this argument, Palestinian man. On the other hand, Funny that they hate the Lebanese so much as in Gaza taxis, floral shops and restaurants are named “Beirut” or “Lebanon”. You mention that you know one Palestinian in Lebanon that favors the Israelis over the Lebanese. Many Palestinians prefer to stay in Lebanon as for many since 1948 this has been their home for years, but their first preference is Israel which Israel denies the “right of return”.
                    Plain and simple Israel has made it unbearable for Palestinians that when they seek the help of the Arab regimes (Lebanon is not a regime government, they are on the parliamentary system) the Arab regimes cannot help them as the latter must pander to both Israel and the West to obtain their share of foreign aid. So in the case of Egypt, their answer is —mimicking the Israeli government–always we cannot help you endanger our security look to the Israelis to open up the border for the quota delivery of food, medicines, building supplies. So when the Israeli government opens up their borders to deliver supplies, exit for students and emergency health cases, they throw a few crumbs to the Palestinians, no wonder you find one that expresses his preference over Israelis than Arabs when it comes to fulfilling basic human needs.

                • The only brutes are people who disguise terror as resistance, like you. But just keep sticking to your lies, without you have no life.

        • Akusia:
          Funny how the Arabs rewrite history. What an inferiority complex they have!

          Excuse me?

    • “The proposed state of Israel was endorsed by Britain (Balfour Act)”


      I am aware of a letter signed by the then Foreign Secretary Balfour confirming a decision of the Cabinet, popularly known as ‘The Balfour Declaration’, but not an Act in his name.
      I am sure that you as a PhD and multilinguist will be aware that, in the U.K. before any legislation can become an Act it would have to passed by both Houses of Parliament and receive Royal Assent.

      So Dr. Shammas, as you write, let us be clear when was the ‘Balfour Act’ passed and what did it contain?

      • You racist colonialist, imposing your bigoted assumptions that only your way of understanding “the truth” is the correct one! How dare you “other” Dr. Shammas’s understanding of history? If she wants to call it an Act, then it’s her right to do so! Stop infringing her rights by insisting on adherence to historical facts!

        • Your farcical response is sick. There are mistakes and mispellings all through these posts and misrepresentation of history only to benefit the oppression of the Palestinians. Revel in your smugness but don’t be surprised if it backfires on you.

      • hilarious how u all can nitpick about whether a Palestinian blogger has a genuine Arabic name and criticizing another for calling a declaration an act which it is de facto an act of policy–it was the legal instrument which propelled Israel to achieve statehood –without being able to rationally discuss the core issues -one being Israel’s statehood was achieved through colonization and wresting the property from the Palestinians and the Bedouins of the Naqab, the latter who are mostly Israeli citizens, by claiming absentee ownership and spinning fairytales that all Palestinians willfully sold their land and fleed upon the call of their neighboring Arab leaders.

        • “…criticizing another for calling a declaration an act which it is de facto an act of policy–it was the legal instrument which propelled Israel to achieve statehood..”

          But then when have your ilk ever bothered about getting your facts right.
          It is not possible to ‘rationally discuss the core issues’ with people who post nonsense that has no basis in truth or historical fact.

          To put it in terms that even you can understand. If I sit at a table and you put a plate in front of me that is piled high with candyfloss and bullshit, don’t be surprised when I throw it at you.

          • The funny thing you never present your sources other than recite Zionist ideology which for me is the same thing as believing in the tooth fairy. Pleasant dreams and goodnight

            • “… other than recite Zionist ideology ..”

              Now where have I seen ‘than’ used in that fashion before?

            • Prof.W.D. Loudermilk, a world famed hydrologist, professor at UC Berkeley, a Christian misisionary largely in China for 29 years was sent to Israel by the UNO in 1952 and based in Jerusalem for a few years. He was sent to Israel to update the 1936 Johnston plan for water in the M.E. his observation to me and no doubt in his published papers was: the Arab goat herders allowed their goats to chew the bark off the trees of the Judean hills which killed the trees, lost the top soil through erosion off into the Mediterranean still evident at the time after a heavy rain. He asserted that “a thousand trucks working 24 hours a day for a thousand years could not restore the topsoil lost through the Arab neglect.” Swiss hydrologist, Prof. Leo Piccard, an Israeli neighbor took me on many rides through the country and repeatedly spoke of Arab neglect.
              I have a small collection of 19th century accounts describing Palestine. Included are the 1911 Encylopedia Britannica, the Stoddard lectures, Benjamin D’Israeli’s visit in the 1840’s and more still packed ready for shipment to Israel. My own grandfather died of malaria in Palestine in 1911. My family took me to an area near Kfar Vitkin which was commonly referred to as “the Valley of Death” where Arab construction workers “died like fleas” in the 1920’s.
              All our vignettes are a terrible waste. We should lay all our grievances out, not piecemeal, and harness our productive powers to help everyone move on with their lives. I was in Lebanon in 1968, a truly lovely place. But they treated the PalArabs miserably. I don’t think that the BBC reported all that. Cheers!

              • No problem Akusia.
                Of course I don’t read books as it doesn’t fit in with my profile as a Racist colonialist with Fascist, genocidal tendencies who is cruel to pet bunny rabbits and little white fluffy kittens.

                • Well, that must be me, too. Will put up a notice in my garden for the frequently visiting cats!

                  And now I’ll think about those Arabs around 1920 who wanted to go back to the Ottoman Empire. Strangely, no-one took them seriously at the time.

        • Bedouine of teh Negev were nomadic so how can they have wonership of the land. soemthing which they allways rejecter of fear from the ottoman . If the arabs didn;t sell their lands than how come the Ottoman let jews builds many settelment all over the country .

          • That is a fallacy that all nomadic people remain nomads, many due to material scarcity became sedentary, sought work in the cities and became urban dwellers. In the case of the Bedawi (Bedouin) in Negev/Naqab, the Ottoman Empire mindful of collecting taxes from all people subjected to their rule–all the confessions, Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, Sunni, Shi’a, Druze, Jews, etc-mandated sedentarization of the Bedouin. Upon visiting the tribal chief of Al Arqeeb he showed me deeds from the Ottoman and British mandate, they use the village of Al Arqeeb as a home base and many work in the cities in Israel–as you know they serve in the Israeli army. Scarcity of water , which leads to droughts, have caused many to abandon herding life to work in the city which in turn forces one to choose a specific domicile.

            • In the 1970s, about 3,000 Bedouin filed claims demanding that Israel recognize their full private ownership of hundreds of thousands of dunams of land in the Negev (1 dunam=1000 m2), including the right to sell. Israeli courts, basing their decision on Ottoman and British law, have consistently refused to sanction the Bedouin claims. The courts have decreed that the lands claimed were never allocated for private use, and that they are of the category of mewat (defined by the Ottoman land law as the area of waste land that lies beyond the carry of the human voice when uttered from the nearest habitation). It is public land and cannot be assigned as privately owned.[

    • No actually the proposed satate of Israel was endorsed by the leage of nation in 1922 years before the holocaust.
      Also don;t forget that arabs in palestine were the one who convinced the english not to let Jews who escape Europe to enter the mandate area. Also not forgetting your mufti involvment in blocking release of certificates for 900 Jewish children and 100 adults for transfer from Hungary. Palestnian taught them how to cultivate the land?
      Lol you sure have a vivid imagination.
      As for your other lies I wasted enough time about you anyway.

      • Furthermore, given Bedouin have deeds to the land, and they have been granted citizenship by Israel, they should not be evicted from their property. How would an Israeli citizen like if they were evicted from their land?

  4. Yes there was discrimination in Muslim countries against Jews and Christians, but Israel also courted willing as well as many not willing who were Arab Jews to leave the Arab countries of their origin.

    • “Yes there was discrimination in Muslim countries against Jews…”

      You don’t say…
      Thank you Maam for your graceful bread crumbs. We kiss your feet.

    • So Jews were not willing to leave their countries of origin? of course they were not they didn;t have other choice if they wanted to stay alive.

  5. For one Rana Baker is for non-violent resistance as her record proves it and I happen to know who she is. Second, I condone any violence against any party, but is your memory so short that in comparing the violent tactics of Leila Khaled Israel’s own history of the Irgun Zvists and the Stern Gang…oh yeah they were a real peaceful bunch…but when I was in Israel in the late 70s Israel in an op-ed referred to them as freedom fighters. You want to hide that part of your history of state terrorism it will not work with those of us who are old enough to remember.

    • Am etiolated version of Holocaust denial. Someone had to fight the British betrayal of Jews in the Mandate. Jews living there knew what was going on in Europe and some didn’t ignore it as UK and USA did.

      • Please another falsehood, Britain like the US was playing both sides you were protected by the Balfour Declaration—and the Brits knew their commitment to the state of Israel. Let us not go there.

        • Fake name, stunning ignorance/bigotry – whatever. Britain would have relinquished its Mandate to immigrant Arabs if it could have. How do you think 78% of the land mandated to be the Jewish national home was given to Arabs in 1922? That was not by decree of the League of Nations.

          How do you think it felt to be in the yishuv during WWII when Arabs were interned as Nazi sympathisers, while of the paltry number who fought for the Allies, half deserted, and Jews were being slaughtered far more cruelly than animals in Europe? After the Arab “revolt” – all those immigrants who came to join the “misery”! – Britain treated Jews far worse then before, despite the huge number of Jews who fought for the Allies.

          Freedom was what Jews should have had early in the 1930s but at that time the French were trying to intercede in the LoN to get some better treatment for them and Britain was evicting them from Hebron, which Jews had never left.

          And now idiots will let Palestinians have the upper hand to create their lovely, nazified judenrein state.

  6. “The image (possibly depicting Leila Khaled, the former PFLP terror operative noted for being the first woman to hijack an airplane) …”

    Because, what, all Palestinian women look alike? That one certainly doesn’t look much like Leila.

    Here are the origins of the image, in case anyone who stumbles across this site concerns themselves with actual facts (a long shot, I know):

    • For these folks here it is okay if an IDF woman waves the butt of her rifle in front of a Palestinian woman and child and armed resistance was fine when the Irgun Zvists and Stern Gang did it. someone like Leila a rebel Communist is too much for them to handle as in their myopic Occidental mindset Palestinian women are either suicide bombers or submissive, barefoot, and pregnant.

  7. What these Zionists on this blog forget is their own “approved Zionist historians” as Benny Morris unveiled the Ben Gurion/Zionist plan to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Most of these folks here do not read and if they do it is selective reading where they can take quotes out of context. Unfortunately you are among the very few there are an increasing number of Anti-Zionist Jews and ones coming into what you want to think are the fray, that soon you will be a minority. You are what keeps definitely the farce of a peace process going and what if there is any piece of a peace process loeft you will sure to destroy it.

    • Dr. Shammas
      “Most of these folks here do not read and if they do it is selective reading…”
      That is the type of sweeping generalisation that you do not expect to see written by someone who is a multilinguist and PhD.

      While it is true that there are a few, a very small minority, who post here or more accurately ‘copy and paste’ propaganda from factually dishonest and completely discredited sources such as Electronic Intifada, and Mondoweiss.
      They are certainly not ‘Most of these folks here..’ By the way as a multilinguist have you thought of studying English?

      • I rely on my own academic sources not Mondoweiss or Electronic Intifada, a few among them are Israeli historians, a few of whom are Zionists but at least admit that Israel’s instituted a campaign of ethnic cleansing, not to mention Israel’s own racial caste system of Sephardic, Mizrahi, and Ethiopian Jews, and African migrant workers.

        • Firstly, “your” Pappe at Exeter University, supported by “your” Gulf emirates, f.e. by Qatar, is not “one of our own”, but a scholar of Albert Hourani which tells a lot about him and his ideology.

          Ilan Pappe, a senior lecturer in the University of Haifa`s Department of Political Science, says he is moving to the UK because it is “increasingly difficult to live in Israel” with his “unwelcome views and convictions”. In an interview in The Peninsula, Qatar`s leading English language daily, during a visit last week to Doha as a guest of the Qatar Foundation, …

          Secondly, his assumptions are at least disputed, if not refuted. Which you have to know if you have a bit of scientific integrity.
          Giving one example

          Thirdly, you didn`t read the 2004 updated version of Morris`book “The birth ..” as he claims that both sides bear more heavy responsibility for the flight, the Israeli government and the Arab leaders!!
          Efraim Karsh sharply criticised his findings. Did you read him?

          At least, what do you understand as “historical Palestine”? The Roman province after the ethnic cleansing of Jews? Is this the tradition you observe?
          Jerusalem of the 19th century had almost a Jewish majority when new settlers, mostly from Egypt, arrived in the Ottoman provinces during the wars between the Ottoman Empire and the Mamelucks.
          So do some serious research before coming here and calling everybody racist who disputes your ignorance.

          • Corr.
            Jerusalem of the 19th century had almost a Jewish majority even though new settlers, mostly from Egypt, arrived in the Ottoman provinces during the wars between the Ottoman Empire and the Mamelucks.

          • There is also the fact, widely known in the late 1940s, that the “nakba” was caused by Arab leaders. It must have taken great effort for such knowledge to be lost and while I know about Muslim PR perverting fact in the Balkans in the 1990s, I don’t know how the “nakba” perversion came about.

            • It was a combination of elements. Some a result of fighting, most a result of broken promisses and fear, fuelled by Palestinian Arab leaders (Still great at fantasy story telling) who tried to encourage the locals to join the irregulars and attack but instead made them flee.

              • And yes. Some were punitive immoral measures taken at time of war. There is not a single nation upon this earth (Switzerland being one) that did not had its fair share of immoral actions during battles.

        • Yeah, that’s Israel’s so successful campaign of ethnic cleansing that Muslims are Jerusalem’s fasting growing population, that the number of “Palestinians” has jumped from about 700,000 to over 5 million.

          Of course this contrasts with the real campaign of ethnioc cleansing that has successfully rid almost every Muslim/Arab country of almost every single Jew in half a century, and the ethnic cleansing promised by the “democratically elected” leaders of the Palestinians, who promise that not a single Israeli will live in a future Palestinian state.

          Oh professor of linguistics, how do you explain this strange twisting of language that allows the only multi-ethnic, liberal, tolerant state in the entire region to be accused of “ethnic cleansing”?

    • What delays peace is the inherent and implacable racism of the Arabs towards Jews.
      They really didn’t seem that bothered when actually colonized by the Turks,the Brits or the Jordanians.
      But when asked to co-exist with Jews,well,we all know what has happened since that nakba.

      But I think I’m beginning to get it,Arab nationalism/homeland:good,Jewish nationalism/homeland:bad.

      As for the old we had nothing to do with the Holocaust,hasbara chestnut,I’ll just point out al-husseini’s* enthusiastic endorsement and support for and plans to spread to his region the genocide of the Jews,and the ancient Arabic art of taqyyia.

      *al-husseini – the godfather and spiritual leader of Arab nationalism,uncle of Arafat,and a de facto Nazi:
      “Husseini had publicly declared that Muslims should follow the example Germans set for a “definitive solution to the Jewish problem” “

      • Speaking of Jewish racism passing through Hebron before entering the settlements there is scrawled on the wall “Gas all Arabs” signed by the JDL. The same group that allegedly blew up the offices of ADC president of the local Orange County chapter in California, Alex Odeh. Knowing the posters here you will claim that a Palestinian wrote that message on the wall to frame an Israeli settler.

        • You wrote above @ 5:22 AM
          ” Pleasant dreams and goodnight”

          So are you writing your ‘posts’ in your sleep?

          • Funny you say this, yes the Zionist diatribe here I have heard for years so in my sleep I could refute most of what is stated by the posters on this blog

            • “…..the Zionist diatribe here I have heard for years so in my sleep I could refute most of what is stated by the posters on this blog”

              In which case you better go over to the corner and have a sleep. Because you are doing a piss-poor job of refuting anything while you are awake.

              • By your comment I assume that anyone that voices an opposite opinion is delegitimatized and referred to as ignorant and a troll. No troll here just a person that has the right to voice my opinion based on academic research.

                • If your posts are an exaple of academic reserch than I fear for the academic world. I thought usually academic base their work on facts something which you queit clearly don;t do.

                • “By your comment I assume..”
                  The use of assumption to arrive at a conclusion is hardly academic and certainly in direct contradiction to your next sentence.

                  “No troll here just a person that has the right to voice my opinion based on academic research”
                  But Dr. Shammas in your previous sentence you used assumption to arrive at your conclusion.
                  In the short space of two sentences you contradict yourself, so tell me Dr. why should I believe anything you say?

        • diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton aka NS-
          Ismail/Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek is an obsessive Antisemite, which is quite self-evident.

        • if there is a sign like this it shouldn;t be there. I don;t agree with a sign like this..HOwever don;t be a hypcocrite any words about arab and muslim racism towards Jews ? like Hamas charter. or we should end what Hitler started.

  8. selective reading where they can take quotes out of context

    Pots and kettles come to mind.

      • Akusia if you look you’ll see there is a difference in style and content between the ‘original’ “Diane Shammas” and the more recent “dianeshammas”. I disagree with both of them, but the more recent one is a very cheap copy.
        The more recent one is the individual of many names, they even use the same spelling mistakes.

        • You’re right. Dr. Diane Shammas is at least literate (if ignorant and bigoted), but dianes hammas is just our old buddy up to his old nick-stealing tricks.

      • False, I have just reviewed my posts and for Itskik’s and others who are baffled and think it is some infiltrative plot, the various posts appear under the name of Diane Shammas or dianeshammas. I am the same, it depends how you sign in. Believe me I am not afraid to voice my opinions, therefore no reason to disguise my identity. In addition, the opinions voiced on this blog I have heard for over three decades so no reason to infiltrate to gather new information by using alternative names. How many Diane Shammas’ are there in the world, it is not like Diane Smith, Diane Brown, DCO

      • Wrong, not a person of many names as I posted already nimrod, Diane Shammas and dianeshammas are the same, the spelling of my last name is not shammes–like the ninth candle that lights the eight candles on the menorah, but Shammas. It depends how one signs in WordPress or Yahoo. No evil plot here. But this blog seems to focus on immaterial matters instead of sticking to the nitting of the I/P conflict.

      • diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton aka NS-
        Ismail/Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek is an obsessive Antisemite.

      • Are you familiar with the saying ‘You can catch a thief but you can’t catch a liar’? It is even worse when the thieves of life and history have been lying for as long as this woman has. Where has sense gone?

        • Ask the postmodernists and deconstructivists, they produce senselessness to destroy sense.
          Sense is bad, imperialist and colonialist, positively white, maybe male and responsible for the greenhouse effect.

  9. Itsik @7:57 AM (what?)

    That was a brilliant post. Please keep the history coming!

    It’s a very sad thing but I feel that the distinctions between Palestinian and Israeli activity need to be made very clearly. Pal Arabs ‘benefit’ from wallowing in a perpetual fog of violence and deceit. But only as fake victims, takers par excellence. If all that could be cleared away then the ordinary Israeli and ordinary non-Israeli Arab could perhaps find a way to communicate with mutual benefit. I know that there are groups who do their own thing in mutuality but it’s Pallywood that gets the exposure.

    • Thanks Akusia.
      7:57 AM? not sure how but I was leaving the train at that time… I guess it’s synced to US time.

      You’ll be surprised how many Israelis and Palestinians collaborate with one another.
      The main problem is that those in powerful positions in the Palestinian sphear need to maintain the atmosphere they’re in.
      Let’s say that tomorrow Israel crumbles and 80% of the Jews flee leaving the remaining 20% to either die or rekmain as 2nd class citizens.
      I give it around a year before internal struggle erapts and before car bombs Iraq style arrive in “Palestine”.

      Like many in Gaza and Ramallah say today, the Israelis were better than the Fatah or Hamas (depending who’s talking).
      Personally I blame UNRWA and those who donate large sums to this ongoing state of affair.
      Yes, Israel is not whiter than white but it far away from the corruption and power struggle that occuer in the Palestinian, Syrian or Lebanese street.

      Yes, Diane, I did say Lebanon.

  10. This is to the individual of many names @12:59 PM

    In September of 1993 Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Rabin, and Bill Clinton signed the Oslo Accords on the White House lawn. This was seen as a major step forward for peace. One month later in Cape Town, South Africa, Yasser Arafat called the Oslo Treaty a pact of Hud ay Biyyah. All those who heard his words knew the significance of this Hudna — it was a treaty made in order to be broken at an appropriate time.

    Not weak at all. Just devious as always.

  11. Hey CIF Watch: Feel free to go ahead and ban dianeshammas so sane people who don’t want Israel destroyed can talk

  12. As for the actual Baker article: I’m surprised that CiFWatch did not pick up on these gems:

    “Israel does not make concessions, that Israel will not give a centimetre back to the Palestinians.”
    – Has she never heard of e.g. Gaza?

    “Livni reiterated Israel’s security concerns and commitment to its people.”
    – Baker mentions this as if it were some dastardly plot.

    • “Baker mentions this as if it were some dastardly plot.”

      It is! In Baker’s eyes. It helps to keep the Israelis alive.


    As I always say certain people should stick to knitting as hobby, not to politicising, incompetent as they are.

    But if she played, which is still not clear, all these fouls diane/dianeshammes/Angel/Rafi aka Nazisse Sharon/Jane/Catherine/Samantha aka HarpalSingh/AaronPatel/AnrewBird/Jeremy Bowles/AlanThornton/NS-Ismail/Alan/Deborah/Jim/Jason/Dirk/Nick/Natzie/Rob, amended by Gerald with Dopey/Grumpy/Sneezy/Sleazy/Tosser/Dorothy/Straw Man/Dick Head/Drek, she could certainly be the star of a theater group, in Bedlam.

  14. By the “Rana Baker” thing Cifwatch hit home with our resident troll, it seems, congratulations.

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