Indy’s wild claim that Israel ‘tortures’ Palestinian kids continues to unravel

h/t Gidon Shaviv

We posted on Jan 2nd about a wild accusation at The Independent with the following headline:

The charge that Palestinian kids were tortured by Israel – by being “caged” for “months” during winter – was repeated in the text of the story which was written by Adam Withnall:

An Israeli human rights organisation has accused the government of torturing Palestinian children after it emerged some were kept for months in outdoor cages during winter.

To back up this claim, Withnall cited a report from the NGO PCATI (Public Committee Against Torture in Israel).

Withnall wrote the following:

The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI) published a report which said children suspected of minor crimes were subjected to “public caging”,

However, as we observed in our original post, when you go to the actual report (open the Word document at the bottom) at PCATI’s site, you learn that the NGO does NOT actually level specific charges that Palestinian children were kept in “cages” or “tortured.  We noted further that the statement by PCATI in question links to a report (in Hebrew) at the Israel Public Defender’s Office (PDO).  Indeed, Withnall actually cited the PDO report, which similarly did not mention anything about Palestinians children.

Withnall wrote:

“During our visit, held during a fierce storm that hit the state, attorneys met detainees who described to them a shocking picture: in the middle of the night dozens of detainees were transferred to the external iron cages built outside the IPS transition facility in Ramla,” the PDO wrote on its website.

Upon looking more thoroughly through the PDO website, and reading the entire letter their office sent to the Israel Justice Ministry about such detention methods, we learned that they were only charging that some Israelis arrested in the middle of the night spent a number of hours in outdoor (open-air) jails until they were taken to the court early in the morning.  The PDO statement further clarifies that this practice (which was recently ended) in general – under which detainees sometimes waited in outdoor holding cells for several hours – had existed for a number of months.

Again, there is no mention of Palestinian children.

Following our communication with Indy editors, they minimally revised the passage which falsely claimed that prisoners were kept “for months” in “outdoor cages”, as they evidently realized that the word months only signified the length of time the practice had been going on.

However, upon further investigation by Presspecitva and CiF Watch, it increasingly appears likely that the entire Indy story is untrue. We weren’t able to find any evidence that anyone even alleged that Palestinian children were kept in these outdoor facilities (“caged”), or “tortured”, during transit to court.

In addition to the fact that the Israel Public Defender’s Office doesn’t mention Palestinian children in any context, we checked with the Israel Prison Service, whose spokesperson (Sivan Weizman) told us quite clearly that the entire PDO complaint submitted to the Justice Ministry only refers to Israeli prisoners (some of whom were evidently teens) and NOT Palestinians, yet alone Palestinian kids. Weizman stated emphatically that this had nothing to do whatsoever with Palestinian children, and that the prisoners in question were common criminals, not suspects being held for security (terrorist) offenses.

Finally, it’s quite telling that neither the Guardian nor other British and U.S. news outlets – which typically are not shy about smearing Israel with unsubstantiated allegations – have jumped on the story.  If there was any credible evidence that Israel was “torturing” kids, you’d think the usual media suspects would be all over it.

The Indy hatchet job should never have seen the light of day in the first place, and – barring any new evidence which would justify the original charge – it seems clear that further corrections are no longer sufficient. Indy editors should retract the entire story.

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115 replies »

  1. ” . If there was any credible evidence that Israel was “torturing” kids, you’d think the usual media suspects would be all over the story. ”

    This is quite right and the article does indeed seem to calmly show the INdy got it wrong. However a none too distant policy against teenagers throwing stones means that such poorly researched exaggerations, whether deliberate or not will be taken seriously by some.The article does not mention this abhorrent practice and would have much stronger if it had .

    Instead we are left wondering why people would believe such a ghastly story to which the usual suspects will say “anti semitism”rather than past experience of watching worse brutality against young people.

    None the less this seems a carefully considered and easy to follow article

      • ” why people would believe such a ghastly story”

        Yes this is always the question that stumps people . Is it that the IDF have used modern munitions donated by the US to uphold a strategically impossible position or are we all raving anti semites ? A lot of people here argue the latter. The fact that most middle east watchers that I know have been educated by Jews , know the history of the Jews , have been sung to by Jews have had their lives changed for the better by Jews doesnt seem to register. They still hate Jews?

        At some stage you have got to ask yourself… is this likely ?

        • have had their lives changed for the better by Jews doesnt seem to registe? They still hate Jews?

          Just look at Jews history in arab countries before zionsim.

        • Webbsite:

          “Is it that the IDF have used modern munitions donated by the US to uphold a strategically impossible position ..?”

          You know, you are correct! 100%!
          Right lads, let’s admit, we were wrong and the likes of Helen Thomas (who, incidentaly, had her life changed for the better by Jews) must be right.
          Let’s pack up cause there’s no chance to secure our position to have any control in this stretch of land but we must be secure in Germany and Poland…
          Now, if we can only figure out what to do with the 50% nationals that came from the Arab and Muslim countries, cause it seems there’s not much room at any of the Syrian, Lebanese, Libyan, Yemenese, Iraqi etc inns…

          Maybe we can convince them to go to Scotland cause there’s no AntiSemitism there and they’d need someone to blame once they either win or lose the independence vote…

    • “past experience of watching worse brutality against young people”. “A not too distant policy against teenagers throwing stones.” “This abhorrent practice”.

      Many – I repeat MANY – of the allegations made against Israel relating to her treatment of Palestinian children have turned out to be baseless, or at best an exaggeration of the truth or out-of-context diatribes aimed at destroying the reputation of Isarael as a liberal democracy. This site has de-bunked and fisked many such stories over the years.

      The need to do this is highlighted by your post, Webby. You have read the mainstream media and have absorbed the message – that Israel is routinely guilty of “abhorent practices” aimed at Palestinian children.

      Now I am not saying that Israel is pure as the ddriven snow. Of course she isn’t, and it is easy to identify individual instances where abuses and errors have taken place. But Israel is a country effectively at war and the “children” and their guardians and leaders are far from free of culpability either.

      • I am always thrown by the calmness of your posts and ill equiped to reply on occasion as I always expect caustic and violent verbiage .

        However the image I have of youngsters having their arms broken is one of these Vietnam moments where the wee girl is runnng being burned by napalm.

        • I think taht was a compliment, but I’m not really sure. In any case, it is a shame that your “image” of youngsters having their arms broken (whether it actually happened or not – I do not recall of what you speak) colours your perception of an entire country and its government.

          By that measure, there is no country in the world which meets the webby seal of approval. Pick one – any one – and a quick google search will reveal some sort of human rights abuse in its past. Why should Israel be immune?

          • I know you to be an honest chap so I guess you are serious. Here possibly 15 years ago there was a series of reports showing groups of IDF soldiers breaking teenagers arms. The soldiers held the boys down and methodically snapped their arms using large stones with a gruesome detachment.

            It really was big news here. Then we went into Iraq and killed more than Israel has killed in her lifetime . Iraq was good for Israel as she could hide in the shadow of our bloodshed

            • A series of reports he can`t provide!!
              Israel`s a “she”?
              Could hide behind?
              Naturally, these perfidious Jews, hiding behind, according to this pervert.

              • There have been one or two reports.
                Not sure if the soldiers were found guilty but they should have been.
                For every one abuse you’d find plenty of support towards enemies by the IDF (That’s for Webbsite).
                Israel is a “She” cause in Hebrew eretz is a female noun.

                you are correct Israel need not hide behind anything, and nearly all of her ministers and advisors when asked by the US advisers stated to not attack Iraq

            • Webby – I think you are in the UK, as am I. As you can imagine, I am a careful watcher of Israel-related news, and I am very definitely old enough to remember something from 15 years or so ago, but I have no recollection of the news you are reporting on. None.

              Frankly I find your suggestion that Israel had some sort of deliberate policy of escalating violence against Palestinian children becasue they knew the world media would not notice due to its obsession with the Iraq war outrageous, unfounded, bizzare and offensive and I call on you to provide even a shred of evidence to support it.
              Of course the phrase “a good day to bury bad news” has had wide political capital since the Jo Moore debacle in September 2001, but your allegation is verging on hysterical.

              • I assume berchmans means this:

                (I found the link via Google just now)

                I remember it at the time – far further back than 15 years ago. Probably during the 1st Intifada.

              • It is not 15 years ago.
                It is more to do with when Dan Shomron was the Chief of Staff.

                “His time as chief of staff was highly controversial. At first he relished the opportunity to propel the army into the hi-tech age. But within six months he found himself presiding over attempts to crush the intifada. The left chided him for allowing excessive brutality, the right for being pusillanimous in his bid to stifle unrest. He was criticised for allowing actions like clubbing demonstrators and demolishing homes of families whose children were arrested.”


                It was not as if these were standard procedure and you must remember that the infantry found themselves chasing up hills little kids who lured them into narrow alleys in Gaza or the Kasba in Nablus only to find traps like a fridge being thrown at them from the 2nd floor.

                Webbsite believes you can fight a clean bloodless war.
                The fact of it is that you can’t and Israel has been fighting a war since the 20’s of no fault of its own.
                Another word about Dan Shomron:
                “Significantly, he issued his generals with copies of Alistair Horne’s book Savage War of Peace, which described the FLN struggle against French rule in Algeria, and concluded that it was impossible to defeat a guerrilla movement through force alone.”

                So once again those who wish to equate us to the Syrian generals will do so blindly.

                There have been cases but the directives were constantly changing because of the way Palestinians constantly changed their tactics causing casualties on our side.

                I do recall one case which hit the media where Reuters caught Israeli Paras chasing Palestinian young men in the hills and when they caught them they broke regulations around 1987-8 when the first intifada started and Rabin as defence minister was struggling to keep control..


                And a good article from 1989.

                • Thanks all for the sources and recollections. I am grateful. OK, webby, so I admit that such things did happen, but my point still stands. Itsik sets out very well why your decision to allow incidents such as these to colour your view of Israel as a whole is flawed.

        • “However the image I have of youngsters having their arms broken is one of these Vietnam moments where the wee girl is runnng being burned by napalm.”

          Really? Shows how we’re different. What I think of is filmed footage I’ve seen of European police beating the ever-loving crap out of actual nonviolent, peaceful demonstrators in culturally advanced, peaceful, progressive Europe where they “really got it all together” if ya know what I mean.

          It also reminds me of what a prick you are.

          • ” I’ve seen of European police beating nonviolent, peaceful demonstrators in culturally what a pri**

            You are a slimey one Jeff .You say “European”without the slightest reference as to where( there are 500 m of us ) then you extend the bad image to include my good self in witty sexualised terms. Now if any one Jewish chap is singled out because of Israel you would be hollering ” antisemite ” quicker than you could shoot at a Pally.

              • Labenal

                I can see that constant tension means the young soldiers of the IDF are prone to PTSD. I was in Rhodes and waiting for the plane home. An El Al flight was waiting.The passengers all seemed young to my eye.They were quiet and not like people who had just had a holiday. I felt really sorry for them.

                However the answer ,of course ,is to use the astonishing 30 b that the US has promised in arms instead to move the settlers. It is absolutely inevitable anyway .. there is no way the situation is going to improve.. the numbers are just not on their side and the US is headed for the wall .

                . Another dreadful development is that Fallujah, despite being turned to rubble and tens of thousands being killed has again gone extremist and a Syria/ Iraq Islamic state looks likely.

                This is not going to end in a good way .Time to negotiate .

                • I can see that constant tension means the young soldiers of the IDF are prone to PTSD

                  Let me reassure you that most of the young soldiers of the IDF are not. All Israeli live in constant tension that is what happan when you live under terror threat all your life.. Yet Israel is 11 in the number of happy countries UK 22 US 17.

                • Perhaps the group of youngsters you saw were on their way home after a visit to the death camps in Europe, and that is why they were quiet. Perhaps they had just been told of the death of someone dear to them. Perhaps they were just tired after a long holiday of drinking til 5 every morning. Yet you diagnosed them with PTSD brought about by their service in the IDF? Unbelievable!

                • “I was in Rhodes and waiting for the plane home. An El Al flight was waiting.The passengers all seemed young to my eye.They were quiet and not like people who had just had a holiday. I felt really sorry for them.”

                  When I return to the UK after a holiday I’m gloomy too. I wish the holiday never ended and really don’t want to go back home to start work or my kids to go back to school.

                  There must be something in Scotland that makes everyone so eager to go back from holiday to the good old normal life.

                  This must be why Scotts drink so much – because every day life is so good they wish they wouldn’t forget about it for a second…

                  “For Scottish adults aged over 18, moreover, the figure was even higher at 12.2 litres of pure alcohol per person, while the figure for England and Wales was 10.3 litres.”


                • Rhodes, ha.
                  I remember to encounter IDF soldiers on their vacancy in San Cristóbal de las Casas after serving their duty. They were loud, noisy, a nuisance, but when it was clear that they were Israeli antisemitic prejudices immediately were at hand. I answered accordingly, and a row nearly evolved, at the high times of the Zapatistas.
                  One week later I was singled out at a bus by the military secret service and they told me to leave the country asap. Whteher it was ´cause of the row whether of causing trouble in the middle of Zapatista country I never figured out. I left within four days.

            • Now if any one Jewish chap is singled out because of Israel you would be hollering ” antisemite ” quicker than you could shoot at a Pally.

              That’s a personal comment aimed at Jeff.
              And you are an arse.

            • “then you extend the bad image to include my good self ”

              It wasn’t the police beating up peaceful demonstrators in a western European city that reminded me of what a prick you are, it was your rather asinine “napalm” comment that reminded me of both things.

    • Webbsite:
      “The article does not mention this abhorrent practice…”

      The practice of sending your kids down the road to throw stones at armed men or moving vehicles instead of sending them to school or to do their homework?

      Yes, it is an abhorrent practice!

  2. The windy has a track record of simply making things up.
    Written by liars,printed by robots,read by morons.

  3. Here is the evidence and can be read at

    An NGO on Tuesday accused the state of torturing Palestinian children suspected of minor crimes, including placing them in outdoor cages during the worst of the recent storm, and of other acts designed to terrify the children.

    The practice of placing the children in outdoor cages was halted when Justice Minister Tzipi Livni learned of it and immediately telephoned Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch, telling him to end the practice.

    The NGO, the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, said the issue was a longstanding one, but that it was drawing special attention to the issue in light of Tuesday’s hearing in the Knesset’s Public Petitions Committee on related issues and a recent report on the issue by the Public Defender’s Office.

    According to the Public Defender’s Office, it learned of the issue during a standard visit to prison complex in Ramle at the height of the storm, with the children enduring freezing temperatures and inclement weather outside a transit facility.

    The children were to be held outside for a number of hours overnight after their arrest until they were to be brought to court in the early morning.

    Livni’s office confirmed that she had personally intervened

    • Jim, the Jpost got it wrong in the same manner the Indy got it wrong. Neither PACTI nor the Public Defender’s Office have claimed that Palestinian children are placed in cages. What they did say was that ISRAELI defendants (including some, apparently, who are under 18) were sometimes placed in a temporary outdoor holding facility in Ramla for a couple hours if they were arrested in the middle of the night, prior to being taken to court in the morning. If you check the links I cited in my post, you’ll see that there is no claim that Palestinian children were tortured or caged.

  4. So your evidence to prove that a secondary source (the Indy) got it right and that the primary source (the NGO report itself) got it wrong is another secondary source (the Jerusalem Post) which may have got its angle from the Indy anyway.

    YOu wouldn’t make much of an historian, Jim.

  5. So everybody has got it wrong because they all got it wrong including Livni now tell us what the only credible historian and oracle in the world Labenal think of it all and please do not quote from any other source as it could be copy of the Indy perhpas ask Michael

    • I refer you to the article on which we are commenting. Plenty of primary sources there. Or perhaps you don’t understand the difference between a primary source and a secondary source? Did you miss that lesson at school?

  6. And now for our resident oracle and historian direct from the horses mouth

    PCATI has received in its offices dozens of complaints of torture and ill treatment from children in the last 10 years. Currently PCATI is actively working on cases concerning children’s complaints of torture and ill treatment at the hands of Israeli soldiers and interrogators.[*] PCATI is gravely concerned by reports from NGOs such as Psychoactive, Military Court Watch, Breaking the Silence, DCI Palestine, the Israeli Public Defenders office, B’Tselem and other organizations in civil society, of torture and ill treatment of children which included caging prisoners in iron cages (including children), abusive interrogations, detentions and arrests.

    • Jim, the word “cages” in that report links to the Israel Public Defender’s Office site, which, as I noted in my post, does NOT say that Palestinian children were ever put in cages or in any way tortured. The PDO talks about Israelis arrested on criminal offenses who were sometimes put in a temporary outdoor holding facility, not Palestinian children.

    • You are aware that leftist organizations in Israel have been known to distort facts, aren’t you? Adam has fisked B’tselem on numerous occasions on such matters.

  7. Labenal Do you have difficulty defending the indefensible. Being abusive does not really help your argument no matter how well founded. Generally abuse is the sign of the weakness of your argument. Anyway you now have the primary source see if you can get your historian mind eround it without being abusive.

    • Certainly Jim (although I have not been abusive to you in this particular thread). “PCATI has received … dozens of complaints of torture and ill treatment from children in the last 10 years”.

      OK, let’s fisk this.

      1. These are “claims”. Not verified. Not facts. Simply claims. Some may be true, some maybe not. I don’t know, and neither does PCATI or they would say so.

      2. “Torture and ill treatment”. That’s a pretty wide category. If my teenage son was arrested taking part in a violent demonstration agaisnt the police I may also complain of “ill treatment” – let’s say if he was forcibly subdued, or handcuffed, or dragged into a van. That is a long way short of “torture” don’t you think?

      3. As above, if my son had been taking part in a violent demonstration against the police (with my encouragement and that of my leaders) I could hardly be surprised if he is forcibly arrested.

      4. “children”. As you know, the accepted definition of children is anyone under the age of 18. That would include, for example, a 17-year-old who is armed with a Kalashnikov. But simply calling him a “child” summons up an image of a sweet, innocent pre-teen hanging on to his mother’s skirt and crying in shock and fear.

      5. “dozens of complaints in the last 10 years.” Sounds bad, doesn’t it? OK – well as far as I’m concerned, ONE SINGLE incident of child abuse/torture is one too many, but I live in the real world, not a fantasy one. In the UK, some 8,511 children between the ages of 10 and 12 have been arrested in just TWO years (see I imagine there have been many many complaints from their parents of wrongful arrest, ill treatment etc. The UK is not at war. The UK is not surrounded by enemies who wish to see it destroyed. The UK does not have a significant element of people under its control who are encouraged to commit violent acts by their parents and political leaders and even to seek martyrdom as an ideal and whose leaders routinely lie and exaggerate in order to gain political capital out of the misfortune of their people that they themselves engineered. Yet, even in these circumstances, 8,511 10 to 12 year olds have been arrested in TWO years. Now, in that context, I would say that “dozens of complaints in the last 10 years” is a pretty LOW rate of incidents.

  8. Labenal this is what you said “I refer you to the article on which we are commenting. Plenty of primary sources there. Or perhaps you don’t understand the difference between a primary source and a secondary source? Did you miss that lesson at school?”

    Of course you have not been abusive. It is my imaginitive teenage mind playing tricks with me. I strongly object to your suggestion that I miss lessons. By the way no child has ever been tried by a military court in the UK. Many Palestinian childen have been tried in military courts. Children are not supposed to be interrogated without the presence of an adult member of the family. Most Palestinian children are accused of throwing stones not carrying Kalishnikov. The one carrying a Kalishnikov is a 19 year old IDF soldier. Having children in cages for a few hours in a cold night or at anytime is not a decent thing to do.

    All any body can do is claim only the courts can decide. That is why perhaps the NGO’s are arguing the law must be strengthened to protect the children.

    I just hope your son does not throw stones and get arrested by the IDF. I am pretty sure your son does not experience the checkpoints that many Palestinian children have to go through several times in a day.

    • Jim. If you are going to find a simple question, based on the evidence of your own posts, abusive, then you really are far too sensitive. You have been called far worse by others on this site, so why accuse me?

      “I strongly object to your suggestion that I miss lessons.” So you are still at school? That may help to explain your somewhat juvenile black-and-white approach to these issues. When you grow up, you will see that I have been very reasonable. I have acknowledged that there have been examples of abuse and bad practice in Israel. Of course there have. But so what? There are examples of similar in every country in the world, and far worse in some. As I often say here, the true test is how a country deals with such incidents when they come to light. Livni banned the practice of putting prisoners (of whatever nationality) in open-air cages as soon as she found out about it. Israel has a rigorous free press and a judicial system that is so independent of the government that it convicts Presidents of heinous crimes. Israel is more than capable of holding proven criminals to account. THese are the marks of a responsible, free, liberal democracy. If the same incidents occured in many other countries, a) you would never hear of it (as there is no free press), b) the perpetrators would more likely be promoted than prosecuted and c) those practices would be encouraged by the government, not condemned. It is THOSE countries against whom the west should focus its ire, not against a free, liberal demoocracy that sometimes makes mistakes such as Israel.

  9. Fritz the writing is on the wall everybody is against you. I assume you did not mention Asian and African countries because it goes without saying they are all against you. So why continue this facade? Livni thinks you are living in a bubble and when it hits you it will be too late.

    • Everybody against us? So? are we to comitt suicde becsause they think they know what is good for us. They like you have no real knowledge or what worse know it and prefer to ignore it. of the situation in the middle east. about the fact that there is a very big war between sunnis and shia in syria, Iraq and Lebanon which will probably spread. About the fact that salafis want an islamic Caliphate all over the rigion .

    • oh natzie boy, the jihad, the jihad is calling,
      from mosque to mosque, and down the prophet side,

    • What. You mean, you expect me to change my mind on the basis of your facile, badly researched, mostly baseless allegations? Do you care to counter any of my reasonable arguments or just ask vague questions?

  10. Even the Czech’s wants the Palestinians out of their country.
    Everyone is sick of Palestinian Terrorism and Rejectionism.
    Czech Neighborhood Wants Explosive Palestinian Embassy to Leave
    January 6, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield 10 Comments

    One measly little bomb goes off and the cops find a weapons cache and suddenly it’s NIMBY for the Jihad Diplomatic Corps in the Czech Republic.

    Czech officials in the Suchdol district of Prague, where the Palestinian embassy stands, has requested the embassy move to another location on Friday, AFP reported. Officials say they feel betrayed by the findings inside the embassy following the death of the Palestinian ambassador Jamal al-Jamal on Jan 1 in his home in Prague.

    “We asked the Czech foreign ministry for the embassy to be moved out of our district,” Petr Hejl, senior councilor of Prague’s Suchdol district told AFP.

    “The district feels betrayed by the behavior of diplomats who kept weapons and explosives at the embassy, violating Czech and international law,” he added.

    “We understand the fears of Suchdol residents,” Czech foreign ministry spokeswoman Johana Gohova told AFP Friday. The ministry would “look into it,” she added.

    What did they think they were getting when a terrorist embassy moved into the neighborhood? Fatah is a terrorist organization. Its diplomats are terrorists with titles.

    If terrorists set up shop in your backward, they will blow it up sooner or later. Just ask the Israelis. Meanwhile the former Czech Republic Chief of Staff is speculating that there may have been arms smuggling going on.

    Palestinians may have used the Czech Republic for weapons transit, former Czech chief-of-staff Jiri Sedivy has told server, reacting to the unregistered weapons the police uncovered at Palestine´s embassy in Prague where a safe explosion killed the ambassador on Wednesday.

    The safe exploded in the brand-new building that is to become the embassy´s new seat.
    “Maybe the affair in question involves a well organised weapons and explosives distribution network, including the weapons´ further recipients,” said Sedivy, who now heads the security studies section at Prague´s CEVRO Institut university.

    According to available information, 70 firearms, unregistered by Czech authorities, have been found in the future embassy building in Prague 6-Suchdol.

    The Palestinians have not explained the weapons´ presence in the building.

    “I´m horrified. This is not only a blatant violation of diplomatic norms and habits but also of security rules related to keeping such an arsenal, that also implies the tragic death of ambassador Jamal al Jamal,” said Sedivy.
    He said he is afraid that apart from Prague, similar arms arsenals may also be secretly kept at other Palestinian embassies in Europe and overseas.

    Speaking on condition of anonymity, a Czech anti-terrorism official pointed out the possibility that the Palestinian embassy in Prague served as a transit point to freely ship firearms to any of the 26 Schengen Area countries (European countries that do not have passport or immigration controls.)

    A further article in Aktualne has a columnist asking other military experts and diplomats if they agree with General Sedivy, and most of them agreed, although some preferred to remain anonymous.

    The former head of Czech foreign intelligence service Karel Randák said bluntly: “What did you expect?! Sure General Sedivy is right. This is without a doubt! I’m bot surprised at all.”

    “If this scandal of a collection of weapons and explosives cannot be plausibly explained by the Palestinians, the Czech authorities should terminate that mission without pardon. Diplomats who violate every conceivable principle have no business being in the Czech Republic,” he said. “But I can not think how they can explain this. It’s Inexplicable and indefensible, so that – at least in my opinion – we have no choice but to expel the Palestinians.”

    Now they know how Israel feels.

    • Even the Czech’s wants the Palestinians out of their country.

      Only simple-minded bigots would be taken in by your pathetic propaganda, oh Ken “Arabs back to Arabia!” Kelso.

      • The sanctimonious, pompous jackass is trying to make himself feel better through his self-righteous.

        • The sanctimonious, pompous jackass is trying to make himself feel better through his self-righteousness.

  11. If people forget, the Independent was one of the biggest promoters of the Jenin massacre hoax in 2002.
    Propagandist Phil Reeves changes name, becomes respectable.
    June 12, 2012

    Remember the “Jenin massacre?”

    In April 2002, IDF forces fought with Palestinian guerrillas from the Fatah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad factions for 10 days. After the dust cleared, 23 Israelis were dead along with 52 Palestinians, of whom 5 were judged to be non-combatants.

    Immediately thereafter, Palestinian sources claimed that hundreds had died in a monstrous war crime that James Petras, an American academic, compared to the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghettto.

    Reports of the devastation multiplied, larded with atrocity stories. A ‘documentary film‘ made by a Palestinian director was full of such charges, including the supposed destruction of a hospital wing by tank shells. Later, it was pointed out that no such wing had ever existed.

    Nothing was more gripping than on-the-scene reporting by Phil Reeves of the UK Independent, scant days after the battle ended:

    A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the centre of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins.

    A residential area roughly 160,000 square yards about a third of a mile wide has been reduced to dust. Rubble has been shovelled by bulldozers into 30ft piles. The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people, who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in, say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks.

    In one nearby half-wrecked building, gutted by fire, lies the fly-blown corpse of a man covered by a tartan rug. In another we found the remains of 23-year-old Ashraf Abu Hejar beneath the ruins of a fire-blackened room that collapsed on him after being hit by a rocket. His head is shrunken and blackened. In a third, five long-dead men lay under blankets.

    A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis led us across the wasteland, littered now with detritus of what were once households, foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children’s toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing.

    We stared at a mound of debris. Here, he said, he saw the Israeli soldiers pile 30 bodies beneath a half-wrecked house. When the pile was complete, they bulldozed the building, bringing its ruins down on the corpses. Then they flattened the area with a tank. We could not see the bodies. But we could smell them.

    Reeves never said that he saw the “hundreds of corpses.” But one has to be a careful reader to notice that. In another article, he simply repeated ugly Palestinian stories:

    In the first of this article published yesterday we described how even children were not immune from the Israeli onslaught. Faris Zeben, a 14-year-old boy, was shot dead by Israeli soldiers in cold blood. The soldiers in the tank gave no warning, said Faris’ eight-year-old brother Abdel Rahman. And after they shot Faris they did nothing.

    Fifteen-year-old Mohammed Hawashin was shot dead as he tried to walk through the camp. Aliya Zubeidi told us how she was on her way to the hospital to see the body of her son Ziad, a fighter from the Al-Aqsa brigades, who had been killed in the fighting. Mohammed accompanied her. “I heard shooting,” said Ms Zubeidi. “The boy was sitting in the door. I thought he was hiding from the bullets. Then he said, ‘Help.’ We couldn’t do anything for him. He had been shot in the face.” In a deserted road by the periphery of the refugee camp, we found the flattened remains of a wheelchair. It had been utterly crushed, ironed flat as if in a cartoon. In the middle of the debris lay a broken white flag. Durar Hassan told us how his friend, Kemal Zughayer, was shot dead as he tried to wheel himself up the road. The Israeli tanks must have driven over the body, because when Hassan found it, one leg and both arms were missing, and the face, he said, had been ripped in two.

    There’s more, but you get the idea. Reeves’ ‘reporting’ consisted of a combination of suggestions of terrible hidden crimes, uncritical repetition of Palestinian stories, and an overall tear-jerking emotional tone. He was careful, however, not to explicitly make any false statements that could be checked.

    By his series of sensational articles in the Independent, Reeves may have done as much or more than any Western reporter to spread the myth of the ‘Jenin Massacre.’

    So where is Phil Reeves now?

    Where does he fit, this vicious little whore, this character assassin of the Jewish state, this yellow journalist?

    Where else? Reeves — now called ‘Philip’ instead of ‘Phil’, befitting his new-found respectability as a ‘journalist’, found a spot at that paragon of fairness and professionalism, NPR!

    Philip Reeves is an award-winning veteran foreign correspondent who covers Europe out of NPR’s bureau in London…

    Reeves joined NPR in 2004, after spending 17 years as a correspondent for the British daily newspaper, The Independent. During the early stages of his career, he worked for BBC radio and television after training on the Bath Chronicle newspaper in western Britain.

  12. But did the Czech wanted the Jews to leave in the earlier centuries because of their anti-semitism so why would they want another semitic group to join them in Czech republic – But what is not understable why one of group of semites would want another semite to leave their own homes

    • Of course Reeves now is @ NPR–what a perfect environment in which he can be comfortable, dominated by a relentlessly antiIsrael and antisemitic atmosphere which permeates everything they say.
      All the while while being “politically neutral” of course–just ask them.

  13. Jim Whyte,Czechoslovakia came into existence in 1918.
    2nd, it was the Czechoslovakian’s who killed the Palestinians ally Reinhard Heydrich in 1942.

    3rd why are their massive amounts of weapons at this embassy in Czech?
    Why are the Palestinians do their best Pallywood lies to avoid telling the truth about these weapons and what they were doing there.
    Czech Officials: Explosion From Illegal Palestinian Weapons Cache Possible Tip of the Iceberg of Europe Weapon Smuggling Ring
    JANUARY 5, 2014 16 COMMENTS

        • I wonder how you can bear to discuss with pervert berchman. He represents the main stream antisemitism of nowadays, wishing the best to Israel, presenting himself as moderate and soft in style, but repeating every revolting lie about Israel in modest form, pretend to protect Israel from his own faults because it fails his high moral standards, which nobody can put to test, self evidently, therefore he has to judge and accuse, morally, that is.
          It is a sort of left liberalism idiocy, otherwise called self empowered good conscience, which inherited the nasty hypocrisy of ex-commies.
          Anyway, they use a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, whether unconsciously, as idiots whether consciously, as Antisemites. It is quite absurd under these circumstances, and beyond contradiction, that they as idiots consider themselves as completely reflected and morally responsible persons. A greater fallacy, today on global scale, was never met since the Holocaust.

          • With the exception of the pervert bit which I have no intention to dwell into, I am afraid I tend to agree with you that many in the intiligentzia nowadays have a serious problem.
            Whether or not Berchman is one it is only speculation and having little time on my hands it is hard for me to judge – though I’m running out of patience regarding some issues.

            It appears that for some reason Israel is being set against higher standards than its surrounding countries, and other countries that behave terribly by him.
            Is it to do with the end of the cold war?
            Is it to do with the frustration (which many of us feel) that what we hoped for was moving forward (The Oslo Accord) came back crushing after the 2000 upraising?

            I have to tend to agree that should Israel vanish tomorrow and the Arabs will gain control causing a massive exodus of Jews, the likes of Berchman will carry on finding some other country to dismental somewhere down the line, to feel the void they may have.
            We all know the world’s poverty will carry on, people will still carry on behaving in a nasty way and war crimes will carry on.

            The question remains, why does a pacifist, as Berchman says he is, bothers with Israel when the rest of the world is in such disarray?
            Could it be that he believes that if Jews can’t get their house in order no one can?
            Because if this is the case it is a very racist thing to say.
            Or could it be that he simply ignore the other far greater losses of life like many parts of Africa, South America or Central Asia (where the distruction of Human societies, wild life or the enviorenment is far greater) because changing them is not viable to him?
            Either way it is not politically correct at best.

            Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d like to give people the chance to defend themselves in the most open way possible.
            I may disagree with much of what Berchman says and potentially agree on other factors but what I find missing from his comments is the context and perspective.

            I also mis this in the news.
            While so much against Israel is found there is hardly a thing about the cooperation and development Israel brings about.
            An analisys of why the Arab countries spoke harshly against Israel UN proposal is missing in papers for example.



  14. The problem is there are no negative consequences which seem to accrue when biased media outlets like the Indy write this kind of bigoted crap. Even in the unlikely event they issue a retraction or modification, the original story with its headline lie
    has already done damage (their goal) to Israel’s public relations.
    There has to be a more robust way of calling out and holding accountable the people and organizations which promulgate this kind of irresponsible hatespeech.

    • ” headline lie has already done damage (their goal) to Israel’s public relations”

      You dont think hemming poor people into a rubbled hell hole kind of does that without any help from a biased media? Israel is attempting the impossible . A small country trying to tell the entire world to feck off whilst treating a tiny fraction of a giant people as if they do not belong in their own land ?

      Its had a good run. Time to move some people a few miles . They will be crowded and uncomfortable but Israel will survive. There is no alternative.

        • I hate to put words into webby’s mount, because I know how sensitive he is about such things, but in the absence of an explanation from him, we have to try to make sense of his post.

          It seems to me he is referring to Muslims or Arabs in general as a “giant people” which is an inteeresting perspective, because it seems to align with the most extreme anti-Palestinian position that the Palestininas have no separate identity and ought to go and live in any of the many Arab and/or Muslim states that already exist, leaving the entire area between the river and the sea free for the Jewish homeland. I have to say, I am not sure that’s quite webby’s position though.

        • ” a tiny fraction of a giant people? ”

          A few million Muslims out out many hundreds of millions. It is unfair that a few million Jews are at loggerheads with such a gigantic population . But that is where we have arrived.

          • “It is unfair that a few million Jews are at loggerheads with such a gigantic population.”
            Yes. It’s unfair to the Jews. I think there might have been another example of this with another gigantic people. Also, I notice that you said Jews and not Zionists. You’re slipping.

            • “I notice that you said Jews and not Zionists. You’re slipping.”

              Good grief are you ever desperate .? I stand by my statement. It is unfair that Jews have found themselves in this situation.. that they are perceived to be at odds with hundreds of millions of Muslims. It is even more unfair than Christians also have a history of hatred and murderous slaughter against them .

              I am not slipping.I am noticing how fragile your attempted ” gotcha ” is.

              • Sorry, what about the Druze and Bedouins and other Israeli arabs or non Jews who are part of Israel and agree with its policies?

                Do they not count?

                I start to have doubts about your honesty.

                • I start to have doubts about your honesty.

                  I’m sincerely hoping this comment was supremeley sarcastic.

                • Well Pretz, I’d like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in this particular case it starts to border with stupidity… 🙂

                  I guess it’s the Iran and Press TV’s support which Berchman refuses to shake away that simply echoes George Galloway in my ears.

                  I’m not a vindictive person, I never felt the need or the point in all of it.

                  Even to those who make my blood boil with their fake analogies and false accusations.
                  People like Jimbo here that do not care for reason and will never trust any source but the ones comfirming their own initial supposition about the conflict or our motives / actions.

                  I never see this conflict as us and them in the conservative way but rather us and them in those who would rather die than give up the status quo unless the end game is abolishing Israel.

                  I’m afraid that even if Berchman is honest about his motives, his way to go about things is simply to negate our current attempts at ending this rather to engage with a solution.

                  Berchman have the right to continue his pursue but if he is honest the consequances will haunt him should his new found alliance prevail.

          • Ir is unfair that those muslim had to come here and occupy a land that wasn;t theirs. They should have stayed in their original land. Muslim just find it unfair that those Jews are not dhimmi any more. Not only that they can also fight back and prevent those giant people from wiping out Israel. Very frastrating for them I am sure.

            • What is unfair alexa and Webbsite is that most of the Muslims who identify themselves as Palestinians are being played at by thugs within their societies for years.

              Yes, everyone f**ks the Palestinians including their own leaderships.

              But no one fucks them better than their own bretherns or their Farsi mentors who hate Arabs by default.

              Yet, Webbsite will still refuse to speak bad about the Farsi racists.
              One must wonder why that is…

            • By that kind of stupid logic, you could also say:
              – it’s unfair that these Jews had to come and occupy a land that wasn’t theirs – twice.
              – Jews just find it unfair that those Arabs refuse to go away.

  15. And I suppose the land that is Czech erupted from the ocean in 1918 – were the Czech not living there before and did the Jews not live there with them or is it like Palestine nobody lived there before 1948 when Israel decided to call it their land and colonized it.

  16. Palestinian children throwing rocks (which includes slingshots and dropping a concrete block from a 2nd or 3rd story building) have killed and injured people! Are people not aware of this fact? I don’t know anybody who would stand still and allow someone to throw a rock at them. A bullet can be fired only once while a rock can be thrown over and over again.

    The real abusers are the people encouraging Palestinian kids to throw rocks.

    • Sorry I was not commenting on the morality of throwing stones which I deplore and condemn. I was saying that the image of soldiers breaking the arms of teenagers leaves a more disturbing imprint internationally than an anonymous bomb killing them which you dont see and which this country does as well in our humane democratic way and which the Guardian etc applauds.

      For the manyeth time here the way to attack these papers is to compare the lack of coverage of our destruction of Iraq with the saturation coverage of the IDFs violence…not to see anti semitic plots everywhere.

      • Webbsite:
        “Sorry I was not commenting on the morality of throwing stones ”
        Why of course you didn’t.
        You never do.
        You choose to look the other way and comment only on what Israel does.
        Treating the Palestinians like children who should not be brought into book is called racism!

        • You choose to look the other way and comment only on what Israel does.

          For the record I spent maybe 3 years condemning only Palestinian violence on CIF . I did this as a strategy , specifically so I could not be accused of exactly what you are accusing me of. Whats the f**king point eh?

          I condemn any violence against any Israeli whether it is deemed ” self defence ” or not. I especially condemn any attack on an Israeli civilian as cowardly , murderous and counter productive.

          Now can we lay this to rest.? I have no idea what more I can do.

          • No I do not!
            I am very critical of Israeli governments who choose to send infantry and gunners to be policemen for population who clearly hate us.

            Read my posts.

            All I say is that both side are in a stale mate.
            It is obvious that Israel has been fighting hard yet tried time and time again while the Palestinian that tried to help ended up in the Gaza streets tied up naked to a motor cycle driven by Hamas thugs.

            This is why 1000+ of the first intifada dead Palestinians dies by their own people.

            You are the one who choose to look the other way chanting “Give them bacl land and all they want and it will all go away”.

            Sorry buddy, the real world doesn’t work like this.
            Seeing Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan just goes to show that in the ME dog eats dog.

            Do you expect Israel to compromise its achievements, citizens and stability?
            What do you think will happen?

            I know you are not that stupid.

            • You’re wasting your time. And you certainly don’t need to prove your credibility before the likes of berchmans anyway.

            • “Do you expect Israel to compromise ..?”

              What a world we live in when the most liberal poster here ( apart from Pretzelberg who vacillates between concerned commenter and outraged defender of the rulebook on how stop stop the violence in the ME.) asks why there should be compromise.

              This could go on a while.

                • ” he only one who have to compromise are the Israelis. ”

                  They are the ones who are not complying with the UN nor world opinion. They have a few million extremist Israelis and the US and thats it. Oh..the Marshal Islands sorry I had forgotten

                • World opinion ? LOL the world that find Sudan . Lybia Syria China Egypt etc etc better countries than Israel?
                  UN? In order to compy with UN resolution you need someone esle to talk to. It happaned in the peace agreement with Egypt and Jordan and leaving Lebanon Gaza. You can;t do that in the west bank becasue the other side have to agree as well. So far they don;t. We are not letting the west bank become another Gaza one is enoug.
                  UN should comply with its own resolution first. They vilaolate the leage of nation resoltuion which is still valid. So UN can;t ask us to comply with their resolution and on the other hand violate its own. Marshal islands? well its better than being supported by Iran and Syria and Sudan. just prove the hypcricy of the UN. When there are so many vilations of UN resolution in the wrold and the only one that you hear about are the Israeli one.

                  By the way ,Few million extremist Israelis? YOu mean those majority who agree to 2 state solution? or do tell what do you mean. who is an extremist one?

              • Webby, that comment was not worthy of you. Itsik did not ask “Do you expect Israel to compromise?” He asked “Do you expect Israel to compromise its achievements, citizens and stability?” Of COURSE Israel must compromise for peace, and she has done so many times in her short history, sadly without the peace in return.

              • Webbsite:
                ““Do you expect Israel to compromise ..?”

                This is the 2nd time you cherry pick my post to place it out of context.
                I’m afraid I bid you farewell unless you choose to bring some serious viable solution to the table that will benefit all sides including ending the Press’ and certain european states occasional falsifying Zionism and adding to the worrying trend in anti Jewish atmosphere in some quarters.

                • ” I bid you farewell unless you choose to bring some serious viable solution ”

                  67 lines . It s not fair to either side but seems to be what the view outside the shrinking world of extremist Zionists and Yanks want.

                • Avigdor Liberman just indorced the 67 lines plus land mass exchanges.
                  Bibi supported this.

                  You on the other hand seem to know better?

                  Do you not believe this is something worth looking into?
                  The entire triangle and their field will move across.
                  Since they classify themselves as Palestinians it should be ok.

                  Imagine, even Taybe could potentially be swapped.
                  Tibi will finally actualy represent his constituents.

                • 67 lines . It s not fair to either side but seems to be what the view outside the shrinking world of extremist Zionists and Yanks want.

                  But you see even UN 242 don;t talks about 67 lines.

  17. Todays Independent leads on the showing of Hitchcock’s film about the Holocaust, buried for decades. I have not seen this on any other sites . I think it is important to show that the agencies that get criticised as anti semitic here, are also mentioned when they get it right.

    Otherwise it could look as though only items that suit a one-sided narrative are discussed. .

  18. Webbsite: They are the ones who are not complying with the UN nor world opinion. They have a few million extremist Israelis and the US and thats it. Oh..the Marshal Islands sorry I had forgotten

    I suggest that you watch this and get de-misinformed.

  19. The proffessor is not mentioning the first, second and third alliyot when Jews bought legitimiate waste land from the Turks (abought 40 years of such a habbit from 1882-1919)…