Guardian

Guardian legitimizes Palestinian official’s lie about Israeli ‘ethnic cleansing’


Perhaps in an attempt to restore his anti-Zionist credentials after the political beating he took in 2014 for appearing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, the Palestinian envoy to the UK, Manuel Hassassian, launched a deceitful anti-Israel diatribe in the Guardian on April 15th.  

lead graphic

Guardian, April 15th

Hassassian’s lies include the accusation that Israel is not really a democracy, has engaged in a pattern of extrajudicial assassinations of innocent Palestinians and is guilty of ethnic cleansing.

Though the Palestinian envoy’s op-ed contains several smaller distortions spaced throughout the op-ed, he manages to cram the biggest and most pernicious falsehoods in the first two paragraphs.

Israel repeatedly proclaims itself a democracy, but anyone who has read any history or analysis beyond the headlines will see how far this is from reality. Every day Palestinians are killed or arbitrarily detained. The recent cold-blooded killing by an Israeli soldier of Abed al-Fattah Yusri al-Sharif, a man who was lying injured in Hebron after stabbing an Israeli soldier, was caught on camera and so momentarily peeled away the veil of democracy.

But this murder was just the latest example of extrajudicial killings of Palestinian youths caught up in the uprisings of recent months. This violence, which must be seen as part of the occupation of Palestinian territories, is making the Palestinian population more desperate and insecure. It is a strategy that amounts to psychological terror and is part of an undeclared agenda of ethnic cleansing.

Hussassian’s suggestion that one use of excessive force by one Israeli soldier, against 21-year-old Palestinian terrorist (“youth”), undermines Israel’s “claim” to be a democracy is itself undermined by the fact that the soldier was immediately arrested and is facing manslaughter charges. Democracies can’t ensure that its armies behave properly in every occasion, only that there is accountability when they do act in a manner inconsistent with use-of-force regulations.  The strength and vibrancy of Israel’s democracy – as evident by the country’s free and fair elections, its independent judiciary and a feisty and adversarial press – simply can not be denied by any serious political observer. 

Moreover, the suggestion that this one incident represents a larger pattern “of extrajudicial killings of Palestinian youths” is given without even the slightest evidence, and represents a perfect example of the kind of incendiary rhetoric used by Palestinian extremists (and political leadersto incite more violence.  The latest wave of terrorism targeting Israelis in knifing, shooting and car ramming attacks, which has resulted in over 30 deaths and more than 400 injuries, was ‘sparked’ by the decisions of individual Palestinians.  They weren’t merely “caught up in violence” as Hassassian claims.  Hundreds of Palestinian terrorists have launched attacks (against Israeli victims as young as 13*) freely and of their own volition, and often with one central task: to murder Jews.

Worse, Hassassian contextualizes this non-existent Israeli offensive against ‘innocent’ youth as part of a larger pattern of “ethnic cleansing” of Palestinians.

This extraordinary lie, as we’ve noted previously in response to such intellectually unserious charges, is easily refuted by a few population statistics.

  • The Palestinian population in the West Bank increased from 462,000 in 1949 to more than 2.5 million today.
  • In Gaza, the population increased from 82,000 in 1949 to over 1.75 million today.

As a point of reference: the Jewish population of Gaza and the Palestinian-controlled West Bank is practically zero, while the Jewish population in the Arab Middle East has decreased from over 850,000 in 1949 to less than 5,000 today. 

So, in summary, in the territory where Jews rule or have ruled in some manner since 1948, the Arab population has increased dramatically, while territories in the Middle East where Arabs rule (representing over 99% of the total land) have become either nearly or completely free of Jews.

genocide

Graphic created by blogger Edgar Davidson. (Note: Iran’s Jewish population is in dispute, but official Iranian statistics compiled in 2011 placed the figure at 8,756.)

The claim made by Palestinians such as Hassassian – legitimized by editors at the Guardian – that the democratic Jewish state is ethnically cleansing Palestinians represents a historical and moral inversion so egregious that it should hold as much weight amongst putatively well-informed opinion leaders as the ‘debate’ over whether or not Jews are trying to take over the world.

*Editor’s Note: The youngest Israeli victim in the current terror campaign was a 3-month old baby, killed in a Palestinian car ramming on Oct. 22nd. 

184 replies »

  1. Hassassian is or was the Palestinian rep in the UK.
    His ability to condemn the killing of one Palestinian and to ignore the murders of unarmed Israelis speaks volumes about his blindfolded hypocrisy and that of the culture he represents

  2. Using the US State Department definition of ethnic cleansing, which Ilan Pappe adopts in his seminal work, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, it’s clear that the Israeli state is engaged in a policy of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian’s. There is no causal link between the ongoing growth in the Palestinian population and the ability of the Israeli’s to ethnically cleanse them. To claim otherwise, is to totally misunderstand the concept of ethnic cleansing.

    • ” which Ilan Pappe adopts in his seminal work, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”

      Margrain I take it that you refer to “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” as a ‘seminal work’ because it s a book written by a wanker for the benefit of wankers like yourself?

        • Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder.

          Mr Margrain unless you are able to show that Israel is practicing the systematic forced removal of Arabs from Judea and Samaria where in Areas A and B they have self rule I suggest you like Ilan Pappe would best keep your unfounded and baseless claims to yourself.

          • To counter the kind of criticism neoZionist fascist apologists like you make, Pappe specifically used the US State Dept. definition and applied it to his methodology

            • “The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument” is an acidulous and sarcastic treatise written by the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. Here he explains that even when one’s argument is weak, it is possible to win by putting one’s opposition into some odious category.

              Resorting to name calling such as “neoZionist fascist apologist” is one such example. The term “neoZionist fascist” is incomprehensible because the term is made-up by antisemites posing as human rights activists, who are seemingly as illiterate about Zionism (Jewish self-determination) and the story of Israel.

              If Israel was a “neoZionist fascism”, we would tend to see the expulsion of Arabs from the Jewish State. However, that is not the case. 160,000 Arabs decided to stay. Arabs constitute 20% of Israel’s population.

              According to the Palestine Christian Christy Anastas, from Bethelehm, “Under the so-called Occupation,” she explains, “the population of Christians was about 80% and increased in numbers. When Israel handed over Bethlehem to the Palestinian Authority, the persecution began and the number of Christians has dramatically fallen.” She went onto speak that her house was affected by the Separation Barrier and then explained, “If I had been the Prime Minister, I would have ordered its construction. It was built to stop Palestinian terrorism into Israel.”

              We can also observe what has happened to Jews from Arab countries. In 1948, 856,000 Jews were dispossessed and ethnically cleansed. There are 7 elderly, female Jews in Egypt. There are 0 Jews in Lebanon. There are 0 Jews in Jordan. In fact, Jews cannot be citizens of Jordan. Trhe number of jews remaining in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan are minimal.

              Who has been “ethnically cleansed?” – the Jewish people.

              Pappé has long acknowledged that he is not objective and cares little about factual accuracy. He readily admits that ideology drives his historical writings and statements. And his ideology can be simply summed up: Israel is illegitimate and should be the target of international sanctions until it is dismantled as a Jewish state.

              Pappé freely expresses his attitude toward historical investigation and academic objectivity:

              There is no historian in the world who is objective. I am not as interested in what happened as in how people see what’s happened. (“An Interview of Ilan Pappé,” Baudouin Loos, Le Soir [Bruxelles],Nov. 29, 1999)

              I admit that my ideology influences my historical writings…(Ibid)

              Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts. Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers. (Ibid)

              The debate between us is on one level between historians who believe they are purely objective reconstructers of the past, like [Benny] Morris, and those who claim that they are subjective human beings striving to tell their own version of the past, like myself. (“Benny Morris’s Lies About My Book,” Ilan Pappé, Response to Morris’ critique of Pappé’s book, “A History of Palestine” published in the New Republic, March 22, 2004, History News Network, April 5, 2004)

              [Historical] Narratives… when written by historians involved deeply in the subject matter they write about, such as in the case of Israeli historians who write about the Palestine conflict, is motivated also… by a deep involvement and a wish to make a point. This point is called ideology or politics. (Ibid)

              Yes, I use Palestinian sources for the Intifada: they seem to me to be more reliable, I admit. (Ibid)

              Pappé bases his accusations against Israel not on substantiated facts, but on Palestinian narrative. He freely distorts the truth to conform with his ideology. Thus he attests to Israeli army-perpetrated massacres that never occurred. He promotes the myth of a 1948 massacre of the villagers of Tantura, claiming that the Israeli academic establishment is conspiring to repress the information, and he continues to propagate the lie that Israeli committed a massacre in Jenin in 2002 despite copious refutation (including United Nations reports) of the bogus claim. As in the Tantura case, he suggests there is a conspiracy to cover-up the Jenin “massacre”:

              Over a year has passed now, since the Israeli army invaded the refugee camp in Jenin, destroyed its houses, killed many of its inhabitants and committed one of the worst war crimes in this present Intifada, Intifada al-Aqsa. With a successful campaign of distortion and manipulation of evidence, the Israeli foreign ministry, with the help of the United States, succeeded in hiding from the world the horrors of Jenin, and even worse, in intimidating anyone daring to tell the truth about what had happened there . . . As comes out vividly from this book (of Palestinian testimony), Jenin was not just a massacre, it was an inhuman act of unimaginable barbarism. (“Searching Jenin: The Most Authoritative Report on the War Crimes We Will Ever Get,” Book Review by Ilan Pappé, Counterpunch, May 3, 2003)

              Pappé particularly seeks to spread his distorted message in the international community, producing books, articles, speeches, interviews and letters. So outrageous and unscholarly are his deceptions that even Benny Morris, himself a “new historian” who has been accused of twisting the truth to fit his own hypothesis of Israel’s birth, has set himself apart from Pappé. Morris critiqued Pappé’s 2004 book, A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples in the New Republic. Entitled “Ilan Pappé’s New Book is Appalling,” Morris’ review spells out the problem:

              Pappe is a proud postmodernist. He believes that there is no such thing as historical truth, only a collection of narratives as numerous as the participants in any given event or process; and each narrative, each perspective, is as valid and legitimate, as true, as the next…

              About the book, Morris writes:

              …Unfortunately, much of what Pappé tries to sell his readers is complete fabrication…

              …In Pappé’s account, there is no faulting the Palestinians for regularly assaulting the Zionist enterprise…The Palestinians are forever victims, the Zionists are forever “brutal colonizers”…

              …The multiplicity of mistakes on each page is a product of both Pappé’s historical methodology and his political proclivities…

              …For those enamored with subjectivity and in thrall to historical relativism, a fact is not a fact and accuracy is unattainable. Why grope for the truth? Narrativity is all. So no reader should be surprised to discover that, according to Pappé. . .[Here Morris provides a partial list of Pappé’s numerous falsehoods]

              Anyone interested in the real history of Palestine/Israel and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict would do well to run vigorously in the opposite direction.

              • You are arguing with a NaziTroll that believes everything Pappe spews as absolute fact.

                Might as well tell a wall for all the good it does to inform that moron of mere facts

    • “At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two.” – Benny Morris

        • Gerald,
          Thanks for the link. Actually, that is where I took Morris’ quote from.
          As for Margrain, I expect he’ll keep destroying himself.

          • Stick to the topic. Pappe uses exactly the same definition of ethnic cleansing as the US State Dept, which according to your logic, also misunderstand the concept of ethnic cleansing…LOL

            • Margrain, post a link to the definition of ‘ethnic cleansing’ used by the US State Department.

              Of course you may well not be able to, or unwilling and try to dodge the request by using one of your BS replies. That will only, once again, prove that you Margrain are a liar and phoney.

              To put it into words that even YOU cannot fail to understand;
              A link to the US State Department’s definition of ethnic cleansing Put it up or Shut Up!

                • Margrain your standard BS reply.
                  Thanks for confirming that you do not know what the US State. Department’s definition of ‘ethnic cleansing’ is.
                  As usual a phoney and liar such as you Margrain trips himself up. Keep on doing it, it is amusing to watch you constantly fall on your face.

                  • Yes I do. But it’s pointless to cite anything to brainwashed idiots like you. I might consider doing it when, or if, I feel like it. Meanwhile, it will take you a couple of minutes to get the info yourself. I’m not here to hold the hands of fascists merely to educate them.

                    • Margrain you really are comedy gold.
                      I write “As usual a phoney and liar such as you Margrain trips himself up. Keep on doing it, it is amusing to watch you constantly fall on your face.”
                      And YOUR reply Margrain is “Yes I do”

                      As for the rest of your garbage “I might consider doing it when, or if, I feel like it.”
                      Typical playground response from someone, like you Margrain, who has not progressed beyond the level of the Infants School sand pit.
                      What next from you Margrain “Shalln’t, Can’t make me” or will you run away and tell Teacher?

            • On the one hand Margrain sneers at a ‘Jewish academic’ and on the other, supports one, because he agrees with him.
              To the stocks with him

                • I am part of an association that organises medieval craft fairs, and own a magnificent set of stocks, which we set up so that people can take photographs of their loved ones in the stocks. Good fun, eh?

                  The reality is a little different. People in medieval times were sentenced to the stocks for half an hour or an hour, and the motley crowd were invited to use the opportunity and express their feelings towards the miscreant using whatever came to hand. Not just rotten tomatoes and eggs, but also rocks. Thus a criminal who had really annoyed the local citizens did not survive half an hour in the stocks.

                  However, if the person in the stocks had friends, these friends could stand in front of the stocks to protect the person in the stocks. Thus a sort of defence against the general feeling of the local citizens was possible.

                  The question then becomes one of finding people who are willing to stand in front of Pappé (or whoever) were he to be put in the stocks for an hour or so.

              • Likewise with you. The difference is I post academics who tell the truth as opposed to those who are Hasbara merchants.

                • Margrain you would not recognise what the truth is if it bit you on your dumbarse as you walked by.

                    • Margrain your unintentional comedy just gets better.
                      My post, “Margrain you would not recognise what the truth is if it bit you on your dumbarse as you walked by.”
                      YOUR reply, “On the contrary..”

                      So Margrain you are posting that you would recognise the truth if it bit you on your dumbarse as you walked by.
                      If you were not a liar, a hypocrite, a plagiarist, a racist, a phoney I would take pity on you, but you are without any shred of doubt ALL of those things.
                      Please keep on posting your nonsense you make a very good Recruitment Sergeant for the cause of Israel.

                    • Gee, wrong, politically I’m from the centre-left. Nazism is an ideology of the far-right, similar to neoZionism which is why far right political parties court the support of Jewish neoZionists. Logic isn’t your forte, obviously.

            • “Pappe uses exactly the same definition of ethnic cleansing as the US State Dept,” to lend a patina of legitimacy to his falsifications of history and demonization of Israel.

                • Nope.That’s pure projection based on zilch evidence. Antisemitosis is a condition that has no remedy and whose symptoms are a morbid obsession with the Holocaust, and a deep sense of victim hood

                  • Margrain,
                    You’ve just described the motivation behind Mahmoud Abbas’ doctoral thesis, as well as the condition most of the Palestinian leadership and public suffers from, not to mention the leaders of Arab and Muslim countries from Morocco to Indonesia, plus the Arab book buying public where “Mein Kampf” and “The Protocols” are on the best seller lists. You have diagnosed a good chunk of the Muslim world. Congratulations!

        • @John Kinory –

          RE: “Pappe …is not a historian but a wanker, as has been noted above.”

          Since you’ve suddenly become a fan of the “recycled quote”, you might like to try a couple more for size:

          1. “[He] misrepresents documents, resorts to partial quotes, withholds evidence, makes false assertions, and rewrites original documents… [he] tells of statements never made, decisions never taken, events that never happened … at times [he] does not even take the trouble to provide evidence….. He expects his readers to take on trust his assertions that fundamental contradictions exist between published accounts and the underlying documents…..he systematically falsifies evidence. Indeed, there is scarcely a document that he does not twist. This casts serious doubt on the validity of his entire work.” – Professor Efraim Karsh, slagging off Benny Morris.

          2. “…however likely readers are to be impressed by the intensity of [his] pristine faith in Zionism, they are sure to be stunned by the malevolence of his writing and confused by the erratic, sloppy nature of his analysis. Errors, inconsistencies and over-interpretations there may be in some of the new Israeli histories, but nothing in them can match the howlers, contradictions and distortions …” – Professor Ian Lustick, slagging off Efraim Karsh.

          Seems some historians are even more waspish than UK Media Watch posters when it comes to the art of insult-hurling. This lot, I reckon, place your own efforts around the level of a whining three-year-old at a vicar’s tea party.

          • Miranda,
            How exactly does this deflection exonerate Ilan Pappe? Would you use such examples to defend David Irving’s holocaust revisionism?

        • Personal Smears?

          Is that a War Crime? Call the Hague. Maybe they can fit you in after they consider

          – 9/11
          – Londons 7/7/05
          – Brussels
          – Charlie Hebdo
          – Bataclan
          – San Bernardino
          – Boston marathon
          – Mumbai
          – Nairobi
          – Beslan
          – Bali
          – Madrid
          – Lee Rigby
          – Daniel Pearl
          – Theo Van Gogh
          – Yvonne Fletcher

              • No such thing as Islamofascism….A “Judeaofascist” like you should know that….LOL

                • Migraine, No such thing as Islamofascism?

                  Islamofascists never hijacked 4 passenger planes on 9/11?

                  London’s 7/7/05 transport was never bombed by British Islamofascists?

                  Brussels massacre never happened?
                  Mumbai India massacre never happened?
                  Beslan school massacre never happened?
                  Pan Am 103 was never bombed?
                  Metrojet was never bombed?
                  San Bernardino never happened?
                  Boston Marathon was never bombed by Islamofascist?

                  Tell us more…. you racist piece of shit.

    • Wow – quoting Pappe shows that you have nothing to support your stupidity. Pappe brags about making things up and he supports genocide and ethnic cleansing.

      What’s next – going to start quoting Goebbels? He was far more honest than Pappe

  3. So if the killing of a terrorist, who he confirms stabbed a soldier, is extrajudicial, what is the attempted & actual murders of Israelis? Since he doesn’t say these are extrajudicial, is he saying they are within the law of the PA which incites them?

    • Yes. That is what he is saying.

      If shooting 10,000 missiles into Israel equates Resistance to the Gaza War which was motivated to stop the shooting of 10,000 missiles into Israel, then, obviously, shooting Palestinians who are stabbing Israelis equals Resistance to Israelis walking the streets.

      • The 10k missiles that killed a handful of Israeli’s….Really effective….NOT. And that’s despite the useless iron dome….LOL NeoZionist propaganda is a worn canard that nobody other than die hard Israeli fascist apologists and Hasbara merchants buy…LOL

          • I’d be willing to throw 10,000 rotten eggs at his bedroom window. How long do you think it will take Nazi Loving Danny Boy to cry about Jewish aggression?

            • Prove I’m Nazi loving. You can’t because nothing I’ve said suggests such a thing. So as usual, neoZionist fanboys make stuff up, which is part of the course.

              • Dude…. Do you know who said it’s okay to kill Jewish people? Nazis said that. And you say that. Therefore, ShitforBrains, You = Nazi Lover.

                Seriously, man, if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

                • I didn’t say it’s okay to kill Jewish people. That’s something you’ve made up. NeoZionists lie and you are no exception to the rule

                  • You can understand how some teenaged Palestinian can stab an Israeli. You can understand why Hamas needs to Resist with suicide bombers. Yet you can’t understand how it is that Israel chooses to defend itself from 10,000 missiles by fighting a war against the people launching those 10,000 missiles.

                    Thank you for your consistent buffoonery.

                    • That the neoZionist fascists pound Gaza to smithereens, break more UNSCRs than all the nations of the world combined, engage in a long term policy of ethnic cleansing and illegal collective punishment and land grabs, all predicated on the notion of “defence” would make Orwell proud…LOL..

                    • Migraine, Go to Gaza and be a Human Shield for their rockets.

                      I’d LOVE to see a fascist like you turn into pink mist. Really.

              • Prove your a Nazi lover? To whom? To you? lol
                Your a joke. An unfunny one, but a joke nevertheless. And a real Nazi.

              • > Prove I’m Nazi loving.

                All your posts demonstrate your love of Pal-e-SWINIANISM, ISLAMFASCISM.

            • You are not very good at reasoning are you? If 10k rockets were effective from a Hamas perspective, they would have killed more than a handful of people now wouldn’t they? Compare that with the neoZionist’s pounding of Gaza during Cast Lead which alone, killed in excess of 2,000, 400 of whom were women and children.

              • I know this is difficult for you to understand, Eddy Baby, but the probability of an Israeli being killed by a rocket is very,very small. The figures back me upon that. Are you able to do basic maths?

                • The reason that the number of Israelis killed by Pal-e-SWINIAN rockets is “very,very small”, is because the IDF does an excellent job of destroying Pal-e-SWINIAN rocket launch sites, weapons caches, command and control centers.

                  Is the reason that fewer Brits were killed by Germans in WW2 because the Germans had ineffective weapons or because the UK and US destroyed their rocket launch sites and weapons caches and means of production and C and C?

                  Migraine, you never cease to amaze us with your idiocy.

              • No correlation can be deduced between the two propositions. Therefore your question is absurd…Next. Israel is a colonial settler state that’s illegally expanding its territory in pursuit of its fascistic goal. This in principle is no different from any other fascist wet dream throughout history. You are defending this repugnant policy because as a neoZionist Jew, you feel as though you have some sense of entitlement predicated on the Biblical imperative. Fascism is evil and so too are those who support it or attempt to justify it either overtly or covertly.

                • What is absurd about the fact that fewer Brits than Germans died in WW2? You wish it were the other way around?

                  What is absurd about the fact that fewer Israelis than Pal-e-SWINIANS die when Pal-e-SWINIANS attack? Do you wish it were the other way around?

                  Koranic rants of Muslim superiority aside, the Israelis are NOT the unarmed Jews of WW2 or Khybar and are able to defend themselves and destroy their fascist attackers.

        • The Iron Dome is highly effective.
          What’s useless is the mass of bile, ignorance, stupidity and bigotry occupying the space in your head that in most multicellular organisms contains a brain.

  4. I don’t know what plant this fellow has been living on but in any country that I can think of tin the West, Russia , China Korea and Australia included if you attack civilians or police with knives they will shoot to kill without hesitation.
    Next point Israel is a Democracy all HER citizens. If you think this benefit is extended to our enemy during wartime. If you they should I know you are in la la land. If your Leaders who haven’t called for an election were Siouan about a peace treaty with us it could get done and you can blame someone else

      • No, Margrain, Israel is a participatory democracy for all Israelis, despite your antisemitic anti-zionist theories.

            • Nope, wrong AGAIN, Jeffrey. NeoZionists are never right. They merely spout lies and propaganda hoping that nobody will notice. But thanks largely to social media and the internet the reality of the activities of your barbaric,rogue settler state has revealed itself for the world to see. History according to Joan Peters is yesterdays propaganda. You need to wake up, man. .

    • @lehi48 –

      RE: “…in any country that I can think of … if you attack civilians or police with knives they will shoot to kill without hesitation.”

      Leaving aside that this is by no means always the case (even in I/P), the big difference between Israel and the western democracies she insists on comparing herself to is this:

      When any person is killed (let’s say, in Britain) – whether the deceased is a violent criminal or blameless victim – their death is automatically investigated and, where appropriate, the killer ultimately brought to trial. Autopsies and inquests are held; witnesses are interviewed; any film taken at the scene is forensically examined, and so forth…

      Just as importantly, the investigative process is (except very rarely and controversially) a TRANSPARENT one: “Justice seen to be done”.

      The reason the killing of Abed al-Fattah Yusri al-Sharif received prominent coverage both on home turf and internationally was that it diverged so dramatically from the usual Israeli pattern after Palestinians are shot dead – and thus brought the norm into sharp focus.

      In most cases, no indication is given by the Israeli authorities that even the most basic inquiries have been – or ever will be – launched. Autopsies aren’t held to determine cause-of-death, filmed and/or on-the-record evidence offered by eye-witnesses is ignored, and all the public are told (sometimes within minutes of the killing} is that the dead Palestinian was a “terrorist” or “would-be attacker” who had been “neutralised”.

      If rumours and allegations subsequently abound of everything from extra-judicial execution, to the use of dum-dum bullets, to allowing people to die from blood loss by denying them medical attention, to the targeting of entirely innocent civilians, Israel’s own investigative and transparency deficiencies are entirely to blame.

      • The fact that she’s here condemning Israel based on second hand and third hand “knowledge” in the midst of 6 months of attacks on Israelis makes it perfectly clear. The only difference between what Miranda considers a Thoughtful Response and a Pile of Shit is that you can flush the Pile of Shit down a toilet.

      • You keep coming here to get the floor wiped with you for your stupidity, ignorance, spittle-flecked bile, bigotry and general batshit looniness – WHY?

      • In 1933, the Zionist Federation of Germany sent a memorandum of support to the Nazis which said:

        “On the foundation of the new [Nazi] state which has established the principle of race, we wish to fit our community into the total structure so that for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible.”

        Later that year, the World Zionist Organization congress defeated a resolution for action against Hitler by a vote of 240 to 43.

        Leading Nazis like Joseph Goebbels wrote articles praising Zionism, and some Zionists received Nazi funds. A member of the Haganah, a Zionist militia in Palestine, delivered the following message to the German SS in 1937:

        “Jewish nationalist circles…were very pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that in the foreseeable future the Jews could reckon upon numerical superiority over the Arabs”.

        The Zionist movement went so far as to oppose changes in the immigration laws of the U.S. and Western Europe, which would have permitted more Jews to find refuge in these countries. In 1938, David Ben-Gurion, who was to become the first prime minister of Israel, wrote:

        “If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Yisrael [greater Israel], then I would opt for the second alternative.”

        This philosophy was put into practice. As the author Ralph Schoenman notes:

        “Throughout the late thirties and forties, Jewish spokespersons in Europe cried out for help, for public campaigns, for organized resistance, for demonstrations to force the hand of allied governments–only to be met not merely by Zionist silence but by active Zionist sabotage of the meager efforts which were proposed or prepared in Great Britain and the United States.

        The dirty secret of Zionist history is that Zionism was threatened by the Jews themselves. Defending the Jewish people from persecution meant organizing resistance to the regimes which menaced them. But these regimes embodied the imperial order which comprised the only social force willing or able to impose a settler colony on the Palestinian people. Hence, the Zionists needed the persecution of the Jews to persuade Jews to become colonizers afar, and they needed the persecutors to sponsor the enterprise.”

        https://cultureandpolitics.org/

        • Migraine, You got any newsreels of “zionists” meeting Socialist SHlTler like the above one of your Grand Mufti meeting Socialist SHlTler???

          Should be easy for you considering your quoted sources – or NOT?

            • Typical – when challenged you have no answer.

              Your lies are getting more and more pathetic.

              No the Jews NEVER supported you or your uncle Adolph

                • Any newsreels of “Zionists supporting Socialist hitler” to support your claims?

                  Should be easy if your claims are true? Not easy if your claims are full of Taqiyya.

        • Little Danny Margrain has dug so far to the bottom of his sand pit that in a desperate attempt to support the BS he posts he uses links to his own website.

          There, there Little Danny try not to get so desperate or next you will have a temper tantrum and soil yourself again.

            • Margrain why would any sane person read through a piece by you?
              Even, if they were masochistic enough to force themselves to read one of your ‘copy and paste’ pieces, NOBODY with a modicum of sense would trust anything you write as you are a proven plagiarist, hypocrite, liar, racist, and phoney.

              YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY!
              Is that clear?

                • What is your best evidence to prove your idiotic contention that Zionists were supported by Socialist nazi filth?????

                  Did your “zionists” get off for Jewish holidays?
                  Did your Socialist SHlTler send Jewish New Year greetings to “zionists”?
                  Was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem one of your “zionists”?

                  Present it here.

                  • Already have. But as we all know, you’ve already proved that you cannot comprehend information when you falsely accused me of being a 9-11 Truther AFTER having read my piece on 9-11 that specifically condemned 9-11 Truthers…..LOL.

                  • I already have presented it. But as we all know, you have comprehension problems as evidenced by the fact that you falsely claimed I was a 9-11 Truther AFTER having read my piece on 9-11 that stated precisely the opposite…..LOL.. You are such a moron,

      • So looked up the US State Department’s definition of ethnic cleansing and guess what fuckwad – they don’t have one.

        Now the US State Department has funded groups that have committed ethnic cleansing, but they are Arabs

            • Margarin your link is to Prof. Pappe’s book.
              His credibility, for reasons already demonstrated, is little better than yours.

              If as you claim there is a link to a definition of ethnic cleansing by the US State Department then post it.
              Just to be clear a link to the US State Department website giving a definition of ethnic cleansing, NOT a link to Prof. Pappe’s book claiming that such a definition exists.

              Is that clear?

              • @Gerald, Daniel Margrain, gee59, etc –

                The US State Department’s broad definition can be found in a report titled ‘Erasing History: Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo’ (@ http://1997-2001.state.gov/www/regions/eur/rpt_9905_ethnic_ksvo_exec.html ) – on page 3, under the sub-head ‘Overview’. It reads:

                ‘The term “ethnic cleansing” first came into use during the mass expulsions of ethnic Muslims from towns in eastern Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992; since then, media outlets, human rights groups and governments have used it on enough occasions to require careful definition. As used in this report, ethnic cleansing is defined as the systematic and forced removal of the members of an ethnic group from a community or communities in order to change the ethnic composition of a given region.’

                Anyone interested the the full details of how this removal was achieved IN THE KOSOVO CONTEXT might also want to look at the State Department’s follow-up titled ‘Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo: An Accounting ‘ @ http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/homepage.html .

                  • @ Edward –

                    If anyone wanted to promote a stereotype of Zionists as loony, brainwashed extremists incapable of doing anything but chant racist, genocidal, and scaremongering slogans, all they would need to do is hold you up as a “typical specimen”, give a few examples of people applauding your performance – and bingo!

                    Come to think of it … maybe you’re actually an undercover ANTI-Zionist with a “black ops” mission to promote exactly this ugly image … hmm, so hard to tell …

                • The US State Dept. doesn’t get to define words. It’s nothing more than a bunch of bigotted officials, but even if it weren’t, it’s not been appointed by heaven to rule on such thing.

                  • @John Kinory –

                    I was answering a specific question posed by Gerald and others by providing a link to the specific information they wanted. Nothing more. Nothing less.

              • Professor Pappe is a historian. Pappe said he used the same definition as the US State Dept. But of course I’ll side with a relative non-entity like you….LOL.

                  • @Edward –

                    RE: ‘David Irving called himself a “historian” and when he sued a REAL historian, he learned a costly lesson.’

                    Anyone idiotic enough to sue Ilan Pappe for libel would almost certainly come a cropper too – which is, presumably, why none of his enemies HAS done so.

                    The parallel you draw is false and irrelevant.

                    • Miranda thank you for demonstarting your laughable stupidity and ignorance. Pappe has been sued for libel and lost. This is the reason that he left Israel where he made a fool of himself. Good to know that the refuse of the Israeli education system is good enough for a British university.

                    • @peterthehungarian –

                      The stupidity and ignorance are all yours, Peter. (a) It was one of Ilan Pappe’s STUDENTS who was sued for libel – not Pappe. (b) The reason Pappe left Israel was because Haifa University pressured him to resign over his support for BDS – nothing to do with either that libel case or any other. When he eventually did resign, it was owing to the disgusting barrage of abuse and death threats he received.

                    • @Edward –

                      I was perfectly well aware that David Irving sued Deborah Lipstadt. I also knew that Ilan Pappe hadn’t sued anyone for libel. So the smeary point you were trying to make – that Pappe was “on a par” with Irving, and would similarly lose if he ever brought some mythical case against an unspecified, mythical opponent – was too irrelevant to even give a moment’s thought. I therefore IGNORED it.

                    • MiranDUH, You conveniently left out that Irving LOST his libel case against Prof. Lipstadt and has a result of losing his frivolous libel case, has been financially destroyed.

                      A Victory for Truth against nazi filth..

  5. @Edward –

    RE: “You conveniently left out that Irving LOST his libel case…”

    Your reading skills are clearly as abysmal as your thinking skills. So to help you out, I’m going to repeat part of what I wrote – but this time with the important words in Great Big Capital Letters:

    ‘…the smeary point you were trying to make – THAT PAPPE WAS “ON A PAR” WITH IRVING, AND WOULD SIMILARLY LOSE if he ever brought some mythical case against an unspecified, mythical opponent – was too irrelevant to even give a moment’s thought.’

      • @Edward –

        RE: “If … Pappe sues anyone for exposing his dishonesty, they can expect to suffer the same fate as david irving and be wiped out financially.”

        And what do you suppose Benny Morris’s fate would be if he sued fellow-historian Ephraim Karsh, or what Karsh’s fate would be if he sued yet another fellow-historian, Ian Lustick, or what fate would befall god knows how many other academics tempted to sue colleagues over accusations of distortion and lying? (For a flavour of the mutually defamatory mud they sling at each other, see my post above – dated April 18, 4.21am – to John Kinory.)

        By singling out Pappe as a historian more “rightly” castigated than any other, and (ludicrously) placing him on a par with David Irving, all you’re doing is airing your own biased view of I/P history. No amount of repetitive Wiki pasting will elevate your argument above the level of shallow propagandist bullshit, Edward. So how about giving that futile tactic a well-earned rest?

        • Rest? Surely you jest MiranDUH.

          Pal-e-SWINES Nakba is Eternal.

          Every terrorist atrocity committed by your Islamofascist thugs brings your whole tissue of lies into disrepute.

          You want to sweep 9/11, Brussels, London’s 7/7/05, Paris, San Bernardino, Boston under the carpet. To rest? No Way you sad, terrorist sympathizer.

    • “Your reading skills are clearly as abysmal as your thinking skills” – from the fruitbat? LMAO. And she also accuses others of ignorance and stupidity …
      Darling, if you didn’t have ignorance and stupidity, you’d have NOTHING.

    • Yes Miranda. He has the comprehension skills of a 3 year old. He falsely claimed that I’m a 9-11 Truther AFTER having read my piece which argued the precise opposite….I’ve encountered some moronic neoZionist fascists in my time but he wins the gold medal for idiocy….I think its best we ignore him from here on in. I certainly get more sense out of my goldfish.

  6. “The reason Pappe left Israel was because Haifa University pressured him to resign over his support for BDS”

    Who told you that one, Ilan Pappe?

    • @jeff21st –

      RE: “Who told you that one, Ilan Pappe?”

      I’ve seen differences of opinion on how much, and what type, of pressure was applied but haven’t come across any source suggesting this was not the case. Haifa University’s President, Aharon Ben-Ze’ev, PUBLICLY stated his call for Pappe to resign (see http://www.haaretz.com/news/haifa-university-president-calls-on-dissident-academic-to-resign-1.156977 , for example) and nowhere have I found anything to contradict the direct link between the storm over Pappe’s boycott endorsement and his ultimate decision to leave.

      I don’t know what “alternative version” you’re suggesting, but will gladly look at whatever source(s) you have for it.

      • Looks like Pappe himself got Boycotted, Sanctioned and Dismissed – but don’t cry for him, there’s always a spot for a self-hating jew in Eurabia.

        The more military age islamofascist “refugees” flood into the UK, the hotter things will get.

      • “I’ve seen differences of opinion on how much, and what type, of pressure was applied but haven’t come across any source suggesting this was not the case” – you don’t really understand logical academic discourse, do you, fruitbat?
        Let me help you: you have seen opinions, and you have not seen counterevidence.
        Have you see any source offering evidence that this WAS the case?

    • Jeff this is a quote from Prof. Pappe in the Jerusalem Post at the time,
      ” In an interview in The Peninsula, Qatar’s leading English-language daily, during a visit last week to Doha as a guest of the Qatar Foundation, Pappe said: “I was boycotted in my university and there had been attempts to expel me from my job. I am getting threatening calls from people every day. I am not being viewed as a threat to the Israeli society but my people think that I am either insane or my views are irrelevant.”

      So the one who advocates boycotts is boycotted himself and then whines about it. As my saintly and deceased Granny would have said “Tough Tits, Professor Prick!”
      Why would people think that he is insane? Maybe because they know him and work with him.
      Some who post here regard him as an indisputable source because he reinforces their pre-set agenda and biases.

      • @Gerald –

        RE: “Some who post here regard [Pappe] as an indisputable source because he reinforces their pre-set agenda and biases.”

        I think you forgot to add: “Quite unlike others who post here, who don’t have a biased, agenda-driven bone in their bodies and regard Benny Morris as an indisputable source when it comes to picking holes in Ilan Pappe – even though Morris himself has been accused of withholding evidence, making false assertions, and rewriting original documents by another famously pro-Zionist historian who doesn’t have a biased, agenda-driven bone in his body called Efraim Karsh…”

          • That’s all NeoZionists have – abuse and smears. They just lie and deceive 24 hours a day.

            • “That’s all NeoZionists have – abuse and smears. They just lie and deceive 24 hours a day.”

              Margrain, apart from abuse and smears, lies and attempted deception you are also known to plagiarise, you’re a phoney as well as a racist and anti-Semite.

              Do the Axis of Arseholes know of your conversion to become one of these mythical creatures .NeoZionists?

              • NeoZionism is not mythical at all. It’s actually akin to Hitler fascism. That’s uncomfortable for decent, law abiding Jews, many of whom suffered from the kind of fascism that many of their fellow Jews dish out to the Palestinian’s over seven decades later:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Zionism

                  • Yes, a Western-backed stooge pig, many whose heads’ of whose governments’ were sympathetic to Nazi ideals at best, or were outright fascist supporters at worst. Do you know Eddy Baby, that the UK Daily Mail’s owner during the war was a rabid anti-Semite called Lord Rothermere who was close friends with Hitler. His newspaper propagandized against Jewish immigration into the UK after the war. Despite this, many neoZionist Jews write for this newspaper. Doesn’t that strike you as odd?

                • Margrain you claim that “NeoZionism is not mythical at all” and to support your claim post a link to Wikipedia.
                  Wikipedia also has pages on,
                  Tooth Fairy,
                  Father Christmas,
                  Unicorns,
                  and Flying Saucers.

                  Do they all exist as well?

            • “That’s all NeoZionists have – abuse and smears. They just lie and deceive 24 hours a day.”

              Your zipper is down.

        • Miranda,
          Your own techniques are not unknown here, but the plain truth is this – if Pappe says he is stating a fact, gives a source and the source is not a source, he is pulling his facts from his ass. And the identity or biases of the person who exposes this really doesn’t matter.